Repeating Trump's racism, Elon says it's time to federalize D.C. after one of his DOGE employees was severely beaten for not minding his own business

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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If the objective of those 90's policies were to lower crime then, guess what? They worked

The problem was there were unintended (or maybe intended) consequences. Non-violent criminals got swept up without discretion. Drug offenses got the hammer brought down on them. Let's fix that part.

But we've gotta stop pretending purely preventive measures are guaranteed to work and make us more moral. People who don't have to deal with every day violence in their community go online and speculate that if only we put some after school programs in the neighborhood then eventually (in a decade?) the cycle of violence will be broken.

Ok. Maybe? But what about right now?

The reality is most violent crime is committed by the same handful of repeat offenders we were too lenient on the first time.

Punishment works. Preventative might work later. Do both.

“Let God Sort Em Out” :wow:
 

keond

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If you know anything about DC, then you know even if this story was wrong, that its 100% plausible. DC has a carjacking epidemic.


I used to live in DC. I know all about it. Crime has been an issue. One cac *might* have gotten car jacked and you cool with them revoking DCs rights. That don’t sound odd? I know your call center has a love affair with authority, but that’s taking it too far.
 

Pull Up the Roots

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If the objective of those 90's policies were to lower crime then, guess what? They worked

The problem was there were unintended (or maybe intended) consequences. Non-violent criminals got swept up without discretion. Drug offenses got the hammer brought down on them. Let's fix that part.

But we've gotta stop pretending purely preventive measures are guaranteed to work and make us more moral. People who don't have to deal with every day violence in their community go online and speculate that if only we put some after school programs in the neighborhood then eventually (in a decade?) the cycle of violence will be broken.

Ok. Maybe? But what about right now?

The reality is most violent crime is committed by the same handful of repeat offenders we were too lenient on the first time.

Punishment works. Preventative might work later. Do both.
No, those "tough-on-crime" policies didn't work the way people think. Crime dropped in spite of mass incarceration, not because of it. There's a mountain of research showing incarceration played a limited role in the decline. Most of the drop came from outside factors: demographic changes, the end of the crack epidemic, focused deterrence efforts, and even environmental shifts like lead removal.

Meanwhile, the real legacy of those policies is mass incarceration, which was fueled by three-strikes laws, mandatory minimums, truth-in-sentencing, and other punitive measures that swept up mostly nonviolent offenders, and disproportionately impacted Black people. Even you acknowledged that part. And that's not a footnote, that's the core of what made the entire framework so destructive.

We shouldn't repeat that. And we don't need to in order to address violent crime today. People want punitive, because it gives the illusion of instant success, but ignore what's lost in that process. Look, no one is saying that violent criminals shouldn't be held accountable -- accountability matters. But accountability isn't the same as reflexive punishment or sweeping policies that end up ensnaring the wrong people and destabilizing already vulnerable communities.

If we actually want long-term safety, we have to invest in strategies that stop violence before it happens, not just react to it with the same failed playbook that caused more harm than it solved.

If we had given preventive policies a real chance in the past, we likely wouldn't be having this conversation now.



 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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No, those "tough-on-crime" policies didn't work the way people think. Crime dropped in spite of mass incarceration, not because of it. There's a mountain of research showing incarceration played a limited role in the decline. Most of the drop came from outside factors: demographic changes, the end of the crack epidemic, focused deterrence efforts, and even environmental shifts like lead removal.

Meanwhile, the real legacy of those policies is mass incarceration, which was fueled by three-strikes laws, mandatory minimums, truth-in-sentencing, and other punitive measures that swept up mostly nonviolent offenders, and disproportionately impacted Black people. Even you acknowledged that part. And that's not a footnote, that's the core of what made the entire framework so destructive.

We shouldn't repeat that. And we don't need to in order to address violent crime today. People want punitive, because it gives the illusion of instant success, but ignore what's lost in that process. Look, no one is saying that violent criminals shouldn't be held accountable -- accountability matters. But accountability isn't the same as reflexive punishment or sweeping policies that end up ensnaring the wrong people and destabilizing already vulnerable communities.

If we actually want long-term safety, we have to invest in strategies that stop violence before it happens, not just react to it with the same failed playbook that caused more harm than it solved.

If we had given preventive policies a real chance in the past, we likely wouldn't be having this conversation now.



Violence mitigation is just that. Punishment is different. I wish criminal justice reform advocates knew how to separate the two.

Unless you think the punishments are too harsh, which is completely different as well.
 

Pull Up the Roots

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Violence mitigation is just that. Punishment is different. I wish criminal justice reform advocates knew how to separate the two.

Unless you think the punishments are too harsh, which is completely different as well.
That's the thing though, I *am* separating the two. My whole point is that the punishment-first approach was marketed as violence mitigation, but in practice, it failed to deliver meaningful, lasting safety while causing widespread harm.

You can say "punishment" is distinct from prevention, and sure, that's true in theory. But in reality, those punitive policies were all sold to the public as tools to reduce violence. So we can't just act like they were neutral acts of retribution.

Again, criminal justice reform isn't about ignoring violence or eliminating consequences. It's not about performative toughness or political convenience. It's about asking "what actually makes us safer?" and having the conviction to follow through.
 

Dirty Mcdrawz

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If the objective of those 90's policies were to lower crime then, guess what? They worked

The problem was there were unintended (or maybe intended) consequences. Non-violent criminals got swept up without discretion. Drug offenses got the hammer brought down on them. Let's fix that part.

But we've gotta stop pretending purely preventive measures are guaranteed to work and make us more moral. People who don't have to deal with every day violence in their community go online and speculate that if only we put some after school programs in the neighborhood then eventually (in a decade?) the cycle of violence will be broken.

Ok. Maybe? But what about right now?

The reality is most violent crime is committed by the same handful of repeat offenders we were too lenient on the first time.

Punishment works. Preventative might work later. Do both.
Or hear me out on this we can try preventative, punishment, and rehabilitation in that order. We could actually try rehabilitating those who can be and punish those who can’t heavily. I’m not saying we should be super lenient, but the American justice system is reactionary and it’s not really working imo.
 

3rdWorld

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Doge cac (wont mention his nickname :dame:)

Is very lucky they didn't know he was Elon's boy..they'd have killed him out of general principle.
 
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