Revenge of the Forgotten Class--The Role of The White Midwest Voters

Formerly Black Trash

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That grab her by the p*ssy comment made by the woman posted by the OP ...Dems really fumbled this one. It's definitely crass language but you can't push your standards on other ppl.

Someone else said Obama was too perfect basically and that annoys me about him too...but if he wasn't white ppl would be quick to rake him over the coals

I don't think the social issues would have mattered that much if they bigged up the jobs
 

ogc163

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On Trade, Donald Trump Breaks With 200 Years of Economic Orthodoxy

By BINYAMIN APPELBAUMMARCH 10, 2016

WASHINGTON — Donald J. Trump’s blistering critique of American trade policy boils down to a simple equation: Foreigners are “killing us on trade” because Americans spend much more on imports than the rest of the world spends on American exports. China’s unbalanced trade with the United States, he said Tuesday night, is “the greatest theft in the history of the world.”

Add a few “whereins” and “whences” and that sentiment would conform nicely to the worldview of the first Queen Elizabeth of 16th-century England, to the 17th-century court of Louis XIV, or to Prussia’s Iron Chancellor, Otto von Bismarck, in the 19th century. The great powers of bygone centuries subscribed to the economic theory of mercantilism, “Wherein we must ever observe this rule: to sell more to strangers yearly than we consume of theirs in value,” as its apostle, the East India Company director Thomas Mun, wrote in the 1600s.

Now Mr. Trump is bringing mercantilism back. The New York billionaire is challenging the last 200 years of economic orthodoxy that trade among nations is good, and that more is better.

He is well on his way to becoming the first Republican nominee in nearly a century who has called for higher tariffs, or import taxes, as a broad defense against low-cost imports. And there is a good chance he would face a Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton, who has expressed fewer reservations about trade, inverting a longstanding political dynamic.

Among Republican standard-bearers, “There’s nobody since Hoover who talked this way about trade,” said I. M. Destler, a public policy professor at the University of Maryland and the author of “American Trade Politics,” a history. For most of the last century, Mr. Destler said, such skepticism about trade had been relegated to the fringes of the Republican Party.

Mr. Trump’s mercantilism is among his oldest and steadiest public positions. Since at least the 1980s, he has described trade as a zero-sum game in which countries lose by paying for imports. The trade deficit with China, which reached $366 billion last year, makes America the biggest loser. “Our trade deficit with China is like having a business that continues to lose money every single year,” Mr. Trump told The Daily News in August. “Who would do business like that?”

During the current campaign, he has regularly advocated tariffs as the best solution.

He has promised to penalize American companies that build foreign factories. For months, his favored example was Ford, which announced plans last summer to expand in Mexico. More recently, he has called out Carrier, which is shifting air-conditioner production to Mexico from Indiana.

“I will call the head of Carrier and I will say, ‘I hope you enjoy your new building,’ ” Mr. Trump said last month. “‘I hope you enjoy Mexico. Here’s the story, folks: Every single air-conditioning unit that you build and send across our border — you’re going to pay a 35 percent tax on that unit.’ ”

In January, Mr. Trump proposed a 45 percent tariff on Chinese imports during a meeting with the New York Times editorial board. “I would tax China on products coming in,” he said. “I would do a tariff, yes.”

Economists have long struggled against the popular view that exports are a measure of economic vitality while imports are evidence of regrettable dependence.

They argue that the opposite is true.

“Economists have spoken with almost one voice for some 200 years,” the economist Milton Friedman said in a 1978 speech. “The gain from foreign trade is what we import. What we export is the cost of getting those imports. And the proper objective for a nation, as Adam Smith put it, is to arrange things so we get as large a volume of imports as possible for as small a volume of exports as possible.”

But critiques like Mr. Trump’s resonate in part because economists have oversold their case. Trade has a downside, and while the benefits of trade are broadly distributed, the costs are often concentrated.

Everyone can buy a cheaper air-conditioner when Carrier debarks for a lower-cost country, but a few hundred people will lose their livelihoods.

Pietra Rivoli, a finance professor at Georgetown University who explored the effect of increased globalization in her 2005 book, “The Travels of a T-Shirt in the Global Economy,” said Mr. Trump might be finding a receptive audience in part because the United States had provided relatively little help to workers harmed by trade.

“You have much more negative sentiment about trade in the U.S. than you do in pretty much any other wealthy country, and they’ve lost their T-shirt jobs, too,” Ms. Rivoli said. “What’s going on there is that in those countries, which are even more exposed to trade than we are, those countries have a bigger safety net.”

Mr. Trump has also accused other nations, notably Japan and China, of cheating by suppressing the value of their currencies to make their exports cheaper.

“I am all for free trade, but it’s got to be fair,” Mr. Trump has said repeatedly.

Economists persuaded governments to abandon mercantilism by demonstrating that trade barriers imposed higher prices on the masses while narrowly benefiting those sheltered from competition.

The United States largely dismantled its broad tariffs in the mid-20th century, opening the modern era of globalization. But some tariffs remain, providing a reminder of the costs and benefits. Annual imports of Chinese tires increased to 46 million in 2008 from 15 million in 2004, and American tire makers shed several thousand jobs.

So in 2009, the Obama administration, at the urging of workers’ unions, imposed a Trump-like tariff beginning at 35 percent and expiring after three years.

“Over a thousand Americans are working today because we stopped a surge in Chinese tires,” President Obama said in his 2012 State of the Union address.

The measure, however, also increased the amount that Americans spent on tires by about $1.1 billion, according to calculations by Gary Clyde Hufbauerof the Peterson Institute for International Economics. That money, had it been spent on other things, would have supported jobs in other parts of the economy.

China, moreover, retaliated by slapping a punitive tariff on American chicken parts — China is a particularly lucrative market for chicken feet — which cost American poultry exporters about $1 billion in lost sales over the same period.

Eswar Prasad, a Cornell University economist, said Mr. Trump was raising legitimate concerns. Other nations do impose disproportionate restrictions on American goods, he said. The problem, Mr. Prasad said, is the proposed solution.

“It might be that the threat of tariffs or other trade sanctions could cause American trading partners to open up their markets or drop their barriers to trade,” Mr. Prasad said. “Perhaps as a bargaining chip, it’s not necessarily so bad. But there is a risk that rather than having that positive effect, it leads to retaliation on both sides.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/11/u...00-years-economic-orthodoxy-mercantilism.html

This was Trump's golden goose, this BS was the root of his win. Dude played this shyt perfectly because I'm looking at counterarguments and the relevant variables and politically his Neo-Merchantilism has very little downside risks. Even if or more likely when this fails he is still Teflon, he won't have to blame his fellow Republicans or even Democrats he will be successful in blaming his international counterparts.





http://www.nytimes.com/live/republican-debate-cnn-march-2016/
 

JahFocus CS

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Problem is, it appears that the only way for the Dems to get this group back is to shyt on minorities or at the very least avoid addressing their issues. So it's a lose-lose.

I think a minority of those cac workers who voted for Trump can be won back over, IF and only if Trump's policies prove to be failures. If Trump has a successful presidency then the Dems have opened the floodgates for a real neofascist power structure.

I see similarities with how the German working class got pulled all the way into Nazism. It was a backdoor mechanism for a lot of them. Nazis had a populist economic message but also had anti-Semitism as planks of their platform. A lot of Germans voted for the economic populism and then their anti-Semitic views hardened under Nazi rule.
 

the next guy

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According to our resident neoliberals who formed the core group of Hillset during the primaries. :heh:
I think a minority of those cac workers who voted for Trump can be won back over, IF and only if Trump's policies prove to be failures. If Trump has a successful presidency then the Dems have opened the floodgates for a real neofascist power structure.

I see similarities with how the German working class got pulled all the way into Nazism. It was a backdoor mechanism for a lot of them. Nazis had a populist economic message but also had anti-Semitism as planks of their platform. A lot of Germans voted for the economic populism and then their anti-Semitic views hardened under Nazi rule.


We can get nearly all those obama voters back by giving a damn again. But the have to try.
 

TrueEpic08

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You're severely downplaying the "white resentment" aspect here as if it's not a factor. You literally have white nationalists endorsing Trump and the KKK having a celebratory march, not to mention all of Trump's rhetoric about minorities and banning Muslims and building a wall, plus all of his birther horseshyt, the anti-BLM/pro-police stuff, and most of these working class white people apparently support this or are indifferent to it at most. You're kidding yourself if you think Trump's message was purely economic. There's some DEFINITE :mjpls: here.

I'm starting to get concerned that all of this "identity politics" whining is just going to lead to open 'cism being acceptable.

I'm not saying that white resentment didn't lead people to vote for Trump. Trump's election has certainly emboldened racists/white nationalists/sexists/xenophobes/etc. to be as openly disgusting as they can be. But that's not why he won. Those same racists and the like voted for McCain 8 years ago and for Romney 4 years ago and neither of them beat Obama. So why do we have a Republican that's blatant about his xenophobia in office now?

Look at the exit poll numbers (which may be understating the case, given that people may not have wanted to tell the truth about voting for Trump even after they had been to the polls). In terms of racial demographics, Trump gained (in terms of % of voters) the least among white voters and the second and third most with Hispanic and Black voters respectively. His single biggest demographic gain overall was with people making under $30,000.

So, yes, everyone who hates Black and Brown people voted for Trump. But they've been voting Republican for 60 years now. Obama didn't change that. What did change was the fact that Trump presented them with the possibility of reclaiming their economic fortunes and Clinton gave not a single fukk about the working class throughout the election. People ultimately vote with their wallets. Bill and James Carville knew this, but Hillary and Robby Mook decided to push this by the wayside in favor of celebrity photo ops.
 

dora_da_destroyer

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I'm curious for those who say it was Racism/White Supremacy that lead to the Rust Belt swing, and not the liberal condescending attitude, indifference, and Trump's unprecedented protectionism rhetoric, how do you plan on getting these voters back? Or do you feel you can move on without them? Because I'm reading a lot of "fukk them and not being able to keep up with the times" or thinking along the lines of this sentence in the link nap just posted "This country is getting browner and gayer by the day, and for all they are fighting to get back to the 1950s, lazing in toxic nostalgia isn’t going to change that. The demographics of this country are not on their side. They might want to try understanding the future—in which they are outnumbered and outvoted—because it comes for us all."
Grassroots dialogue. I always say americans are politically ignorant due to how spoiled we are as a nation - we dont have bombs dropping on our heads, mass genocides (please don't retort this by hyperbolizing the police issues and blm) mass starvation, and other revolutionary or anrcahcnist violence that threaten our safety and liberty. People are upset about the results, but at the end of the day, everyone woke up and went about their lives. Becasue of this, we don't have to know about or care about politics outside of buzz words, cliche issues/policies, and identity politics.

For the dem party to really move forward with a united coalition, some real grassroots education and dialogue needs to happen between "elitist liberals", minorities, and "working class whites". I've been reding a lot of comment sections, and the ones that don't devolve to trolling and/or net thuggery actually do show these two sides just can't hear each other therefore folks miss understanding the mutual benefit. There will be a resistant portion for whom racial politics and fear of a changing America will keep them from jumping on board, but for others, I believe if the "elitist" coalition drops the condescension, there is an opportunity to get both side to gel.
 

theworldismine13

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I like Ellison. A lot.


But I don't know if the DNC chair is a job for him.

We can have two convos, can't we?

Sure, the whole "we lost the white male vote so let's get a white male" is simple logic and it's a mistake

Just like the whole "we lost the Hispanic vote so let's give amnesty to 11 million people" that some republicans engaged in was a mistake
 

theworldismine13

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It's ironic though not surprising, how everyone is now empathizing with the plight of this demographic.

But black people as a whole have been facing worse conditions forever, but instead of empathy, the plight of poor black people is seen as a moral failing on their part.

A couple of weeks ago you and you ilk were writing essays about the plight of 11 million illegal immigrant and how if a black person is poor or unemployed it's their own fault

You have more empathy for illegal aliens than poor black people, so stop
 

acri1

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This dude TWISM somehow makes everything about illegal immigration even if it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. :dead:
 

theworldismine13

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Classic. :pachaha: That breh campaigning for HRC at the 2:55 mark with the Becky girlfriend at his apartment. When asked who she was going to vote, deflected like a mofo talking about her racist mother while breh had the :patrice::usure::sas2: in the background. What massive televised and permanently archived L.

It was weird, it looked like it was the first time they had ever discussed politics
 

acri1

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I'm not saying that white resentment didn't lead people to vote for Trump. Trump's election has certainly emboldened racists/white nationalists/sexists/xenophobes/etc. to be as openly disgusting as they can be. But that's not why he won. Those same racists and the like voted for McCain 8 years ago and for Romney 4 years ago and neither of them beat Obama. So why do we have a Republican that's blatant about his xenophobia in office now?

Look at the exit poll numbers (which may be understating the case, given that people may not have wanted to tell the truth about voting for Trump even after they had been to the polls). In terms of racial demographics, Trump gained (in terms of % of voters) the least among white voters and the second and third most with Hispanic and Black voters respectively. His single biggest demographic gain overall was with people making under $30,000.

So, yes, everyone who hates Black and Brown people voted for Trump. But they've been voting Republican for 60 years now. Obama didn't change that. What did change was the fact that Trump presented them with the possibility of reclaiming their economic fortunes and Clinton gave not a single fukk about the working class throughout the election. People ultimately vote with their wallets. Bill and James Carville knew this, but Hillary and Robby Mook decided to push this by the wayside in favor of celebrity photo ops.

I mostly agree, but the social environment in 2016 is a lot different than it was in 2008. The shootings of black men, rise of the alt-right, protests against cops, ISIS, etc. IMO there's a significant amout of peole on that :mjpls: tip that otherwise wouldn't be and probably weren't in 2008. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that white resentment has gotten more widespread in recent years. It's a problem.


But that said I don't disagree with the idea that there are economic factors too.
 

Jimi Swagger

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It was weird, it looked like it was the first time they had ever discussed politics
Which is sad when he is actively campaigning and not just living room/social media discussions. Shows how deep that relationship is. He couldn't even hide his expressions. And his body language hilarious. She never really answered the question, just said her mother would disown her if she voted for Hilary which may be the reason she didn't answer on camera or she might not want to offend bae by saying Trump. Pawg on brehs. Pawg on.
 

theworldismine13

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This dude TWISM somehow makes everything about illegal immigration even if it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. :dead:

Illegal immigration had everything to do with black people not showing up

in case you didn't notice there was a rash of social media and articles in black media pointing out that Obama had done things for specifically for gays and hispanics and nothing for specifically for black people, so Hillarys focus on amnesty was directly related to her loss

And it goes without saying that illegal immigration is not something white people in the rust belt were down with

It's baffling that democrats think it's a good idea to give 11 million illegal immigrants work permits and that people won't notice or mind and yall still don't get that is why she lost
 
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