Reza Aslan rebuts Bill Maher about Islam

[CHL]

I'm not sure that is accurate. But if we are being honest, the the fukkery of fundamentalist Islam >>>>>>>>> fukkery of fundamentalist Christianity. For example, Family guy shyts on Christianity on an almost weekly basis, Christians respond by bytching and moaning and threatening boycotts. A newspaper prints a picture of Mohammed and Muslims riot all over the world. It's levels to fundamentalism.

The extremism of Christianity is not on the same level as the extremism of Islam and I'm an atheist. I don't have a horse in this race.

"I'm not sure that is accurate". It depends on who we are referring to when we say "liberal media".'

And I think we are underestimating the potential extremism of Christianity. If a bible thumping far right wing, anti government, anti abortion, xenophobic, hateful group had the financial backing and political environment that ISIS has in the Middle East that facilitates their ability to wreck havoc, I'm not sure they would be that dissimilar.

 

[Robbie3000]

"I'm not sure that is accurate". It depends on who we are referring to when we say "liberal media".'

And I think we are underestimating the potential extremism of Christianity. If a bible thumping far right wing, anti government, anti abortion, xenophobic, hateful group had the financial backing and political environment that ISIS has in the Middle East that facilitates their ability to wreck havoc, I'm not sure they would be that dissimilar.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

Great vid.

I give Reza mad brownie points for adding the human element back into the middle east discussion. It is important to realize the social context and history of events.

However Sam won by making Reza sound like a deist

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Great vid.

I give Reza mad brownie points for adding the human element back into the middle east discussion. It is important to realize the social context and history of events.

However Sam won by making Reza sound like a deist

lets not front like Islam hasn't been on that worldwide caliphate shyt since as early as the 1700s breh

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

bill erroneously blamed islam for cutting off clitorises when it is a regional culture issue that transcends religion. that is indicative of his sloppy approach to criticizing islam in general.

also, i am non-religious. i dont worship any god and i favor skeptical/rational ways of thinking, so i am not trying to play captain save a ho for muslims.

maher is right that some liberals have the impulse to bend over backwards for muslims who are doing things we otherwwise would never defend because we are concerned with them being singled out and harmed in america, but in the grand scheme of things, being too soft on a minority group is really not a big deal. the truth is maher is a zionist and he begins to lose his intellectual honesty when discussing the middle east.

Also, Bill Maher talked about how liberals get outraged over minor things like bakeries that won't see wedding cakes to gay couples, but don't "stand up" against oppression in Muslim countries. Um, we're U. S. citizens who pay taxes so we have stake in things like the bakery issue, and can affect them legislatively. They're other sovereign nations thousands of miles away. That's a fail of an analogy. If women were being sprayed in the face with acid here, there would be extreme outrage and perpetrators would be convicted and jailed, regardless of whether they were Muslim or not.

The fukk does he want? Code Pink showing up places screaming about women being executed in Pakistan for suspicion of cheating? Occupy Riyadh?

 

[tru_m.a.c]

I just got to watch the original video in the OP….omg Reza went in

 

[tru_m.a.c]

yo he straight sonned that chick

seriously though, his point is absolutely correct

 

[Ritzy Sharon]

The extremism of Christianity is not on the same level as the extremism of Islam and I'm an atheist. I don't have a horse in this race.

during the Lebanese civil war, the most prolific killers of women and children were the Christian militias.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

 

[Type Username Here]

Any non-religious folks that are actually intelligent and capable of articulating logical arguments have any issue with what Aslan said? @zerozero @Type Username Here @Broletariat @Techniec

I do, but nothing too drastic.

Aslan seems to gloss over the fact that majority Muslim countries and areas that shouldn't be lumped in with Saudi Arabia and Iran are usually secular countries and areas. Countries and pockets that are theocratic in nature and where hardline Islam (or other hardline sects of the Abrahamic faiths ) is the main source of law happen to have major issues in term of civil rights, women's rights, etc.. This can be found in Christian (Amish, Vatican) and Jewish (Orthodox) pockets as well. To lay all the blame on culture and place none on the religious source is just as ridiculous as what Maher was saying. The problem with these texts is that since they were written by men and yet followed as the word of the Creator, there exists sometimes dangerous ambiguity. Think of how even recent documents pertaining to law (Constitution, laws, PATRIOT ACT) have huge spectrum of ambiguity and interpretation. These holy books are no different, especially since they were written by men who lived in a different time and different way of life.

The religious source has a lot to do with it. It can't simply be glossed over.

Now, what I take issue with Maher is that he conveniently always leaves Jewish Theocracy and faith untouched for the most part. He's a zionist and zionism is rooted purely in religious source as well. I can't vibe with that selective anti-theism.

 

[Type Username Here]

The extremism of Christianity is not on the same level as the extremism of Islam and I'm an atheist. I don't have a horse in this race.

Man, you know I don't cape for Islam at all but this is just a crazy statement. Christianity makes Islam look like Jainism in historical terms. That body count won't ever be touched.

 

[The War Report]

Don Lemon is such a fukking hack.

 

[Ritzy Sharon]

I do, but nothing too drastic.

Aslan seems to gloss over the fact that majority Muslim countries and areas that shouldn't be lumped in with Saudi Arabia and Iran are usually secular countries and areas. Countries and pockets that are theocratic in nature and where hardline Islam (or other hardline sects of the Abrahamic faiths ) is the main source of law happen to have major issues in term of civil rights, women's rights, etc.. This can be found in Christian (Amish, Vatican) and Jewish (Orthodox) pockets as well. To lay all the blame on culture and place none on the religious source is just as ridiculous as what Maher was saying. The problem with these texts is that since they were written by men and yet followed as the word of the Creator, there exists sometimes dangerous ambiguity. Think of how even recent documents pertaining to law (Constitution, laws, PATRIOT ACT) have huge spectrum of ambiguity and interpretation. These holy books are no different, especially since they were written by men who lived in a different time and different way of life.

The religious source has a lot to do with it. It can't simply be glossed over.

Now, what I take issue with Maher is that he conveniently always leaves Jewish Theocracy and faith untouched for the most part. He's a zionist and zionism is rooted purely in religious source as well. I can't vibe with that selective anti-theism.

I agree, the religious source deserves scrutiny, but Maher wants to present the argument that all Muslims are intrinsically hostile to ideas like women's rights, secularism, and democracy. if that was the case, there wouldn't be any secular countries and areas to begin with.

Turkey was the center of the last Islamic Empire & "theocratic in nature" until very recently. now it's a model of secularism and shouldn't be lumped in with KSA & Iran.

 

[Type Username Here]

I agree, the religious source deserves scrutiny, but Maher wants to present the argument that all Muslims are intrinsically hostile to ideas like women's rights, secularism, and democracy. if that was the case, there wouldn't be any secular countries and areas to begin with.

Turkey was the center of the last Islamic Empire & "theocratic in nature" until very recently. now it's a model of secularism and shouldn't be lumped in with KSA & Iran.

I think you and Aslan are right, you can't say "all", but I do think it is a valid question to ask "how many are hostile towards X?". Not just Islam, but other religions as well. How many Muslims in Turkey feel about X, despite it being a secular country? Here in the States our main issues involving religious extremism and anti-secularism happen to be mainly from Christian sources. Things like anti-stem cell, harassing and committing violence towards pro-choice institutions and laws, anti-gay rhetoric, christian-first rhetoric and so on. I think it's a valid question and inquiry to wonder how many people are out there like that. They need to be pointed out as much as possible because they are actively trying to chip away at secularism. I do think Maher has a small valid point, which is at times some progressives in this country are very hard on Christian influence and morality, but absolutely do make a point to go out of their way to be tolerant to Islam's belief system (for whatever reason that may be). Frankly, a lot of issues progressives have with Christian theology and morality can be found in Judaism and Islam, as well as other religions. Blasting one of them and tip-toeing around the others seems disingenuous (which Maher does with Judaism and Zionism all the time).

Secularism in itself involves separation of faith and state (in different degrees depending on the state), but at times it's much more complicated than even that. Some of the Scandinavian countries still have official state religions (Christianity) despite some of world's most hardline secular culture, laws and populations. You have countries like Israel where it is billed as secular and non-religious despite a very clear religious undertone to the very existence of the state, the symbolism in all of its entirety, preferential laws and Zionism in general. So at times it isn't purely a "secular vs theocratic" thing either because it often falls strictly on unique population sets within those jurisdictions.

I just felt my only minor point against what Aslan said was that he kind of dismissed the religious source of some of these issues nonchalantly.

 

[Domingo Halliburton]

I admittedly haven't read much of this thread but I would bet money that the next major terror attack in this world will be committed by a Muslim(s)....whether thats the religion or regional/geopolitical issues is certainly up to you to decide, and you can't paint a broad stroke across a billion+ people but there is some thread- however small - weaving through there.

 

[Ritzy Sharon]

I think you and Aslan are right, you can't say "all", but I do think it is a valid question to ask "how many are hostile towards X?". Not just Islam, but other religions as well. How many Muslims in Turkey feel about X, despite it being a secular country? Here in the States our main issues involving religious extremism and anti-secularism happen to be mainly from Christian sources. Things like anti-stem cell, harassing and committing violence towards pro-choice institutions and laws, anti-gay rhetoric, christian-first rhetoric and so on. I think it's a valid question and inquiry to wonder how many people are out there like that. They need to be pointed out as much as possible because they are actively trying to chip away at secularism. I do think Maher has a small valid point, which is at times some progressives in this country are very hard on Christian influence and morality, but absolutely do make a point to go out of their way to be tolerant to Islam's belief system (for whatever reason that may be). Frankly, a lot of issues progressives have with Christian theology and morality can be found in Judaism and Islam, as well as other religions. Blasting one of them and tip-toeing around the others seems disingenuous (which Maher does with Judaism and Zionism all the time).

Secularism in itself involves separation of faith and state (in different degrees depending on the state), but at times it's much more complicated than even that. Some of the Scandinavian countries still have official state religions (Christianity) despite some of world's most hardline secular culture, laws and populations. You have countries like Israel where it is billed as secular and non-religious despite a very clear religious undertone to the very existence of the state, the symbolism in all of its entirety, preferential laws and Zionism in general. So at times it isn't purely a "secular vs theocratic" thing either because it often falls strictly on unique population sets within those jurisdictions.

I just felt my only minor point against what Aslan said was that he kind of dismissed the religious source of some of these issues nonchalantly.

fair points.

but I don't think progressives or liberals are any more tolerant towards Islam than Christianity, it's just that there is no Muslim equivalent of the Christian Right that is constantly threatening liberal values in the US. I remember strong push back when Islam and free speech come into conflict, like during the Prophet Muhammed cartoon fiasco.

they may trot out token activists like Malala Yousafzai every once in a while to make themselves feel all good and superior, but I don't think liberals/progs really give a shyt about issues like gender equality in Somalia or Pakistan.