Reza Aslan rebuts Bill Maher about Islam

[CHL]

fair points.

but I don't think progressives or liberals are any more tolerant towards Islam than Christianity, it's just that there is no Muslim equivalent of the Christian Right that is constantly threatening liberal values in the US. I remember strong push back when Islam and free speech come into conflict, like during the Prophet Muhammed cartoon fiasco.

they may trot out token activists like Malala Yousafzai every once in a while to make themselves feel all good and superior, but I don't think liberals/progs really give a shyt about issues like gender equality in Somalia or Pakistan.

How did you go from having an excellent first paragraph to such an ignorant second paragraph?

 

[Ritzy Sharon]

How did you go from having an excellent first paragraph to such an ignorant second paragraph?

what, you didn't like I called Malala a token activist?

my dear boy, I was by no means belittling her struggle, the emancipation of women in the Arab & Muslim world is a cause I take very seriously. buy I don't appreciate how she's opportunistically used to reinforce orientalist stereotypes/feelings of western superiority and promote humanitarian imperialism. appealing to the same institutions and western powers that have destabilized Pakistan and devastated Afghanistan for decades, giving rise to retrograde forces like the Taliban, will not further the cause of women's rights in her region.

 

[CHL]

what, you didn't like I called Malala a token?

my dear boy, I was by no means belittling her struggle, women's emancipation in the Arab & Muslim world is a cause I take very seriously. buy I don't appreciate how she's opportunistically used to reinforce orientalist stereotypes/feelings of western superiority and promote humanitarian imperialism. appealing to the same institutions and western powers that have destabilized Pakistan and devastated Afghanistan for decades, giving rise to retrograde forces like the Taliban, will not further the cause of women's rights in her region.

I was referring moreso to:

fair points.

but I don't think progressives or liberals are any more tolerant towards Islam than Christianity, it's just that there is no Muslim equivalent of the Christian Right that is constantly threatening liberal values in the US. I remember strong push back when Islam and free speech come into conflict, like during the Prophet Muhammed cartoon fiasco.

they may trot out token activists like Malala Yousafzai every once in a while to make themselves feel all good and superior, but I don't think liberals/progs really give a shyt about issues like gender equality in Somalia or Pakistan.

Which progressive media outlets have given you this impression?

 

[Ritzy Sharon]

I was referring moreso to:



Which progressive media outlets have given you this impression?

with an exception of Alternative media like http://www.democracynow.org, I find most liberal attitudes in the US media towards women in MENA to be disingenuous and self-serving.

for instance, much attention was given to the plight of Iraqi Yazidi girls at the hands of ISIS, but rarely is it reported that Iraqi women once enjoyed more basic rights than other women in the region and the deterioration of their status in the country is a direct result of decades of US sanctions and occupation.

 

[CHL]

with an exception of Alternative media like http://www.democracynow.org, I find most liberal attitudes in the US media towards women in MENA to be disingenuous and self-serving.

for instance, much attention was given to the plight of Iraqi Yazidi girls at the hands of ISIS, but rarely is it reported that Iraqi women once enjoyed more basic rights than other women in the region and the deterioration of their status in the country is a direct result of decades of US sanctions and occupation.

But who do you consider to be progressive media outlets? Obviously most mainstream televesion in your country is right wing or centrist.

The most popular progressive websites would be sites like the guardian, slate, salon, think progress (90% of time, the other 10% it just says whatever the centrist democrats want, e.g Obama's foreign policy), rawstory etc, right?

Yet I just did a quick google search and found all of these articles:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jun/17/women-somalia-hell-worst-world

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014...ls-sexually-exploited-abused-by-peacekeepers/

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014...female-genital-mutilation-africa-middle-east/

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/05/30/3443096/honor-killings-pakistan/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/25/somali-reporter-shot-dead-mogadishu

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/04/pakistan-women-right-to-vote

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/...m-voting-in-taliban-stronghold-of-waziristan/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/14/worst-places-in-the-world-for-women-somalia

http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...enital-mutilation-somalia-fgm-audio-slideshow

http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...d_have_read_my_islamic_marriage_contract.html

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/pakistan_has_a_rape_problem_too/

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/08/rights_group_au_troops_in_somalia_raped_locals/

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/apr/10/pakistan-women-voiceless-human-rights

Is this not covering women's rights in Pakistan and Somalia?

 

[Ritzy Sharon]

But who do you consider to be progressive media outlets? Obviously most mainstream televesion in your country is right wing or centrist.

The most popular progressive websites would be sites like the guardian, slate, salon, think progress (90% of time, the other 10% it just says whatever the centrist democrats want, e.g Obama's foreign policy), rawstory etc, right?

Yet I just did a quick google search and found all of these articles:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jun/17/women-somalia-hell-worst-world

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014...ls-sexually-exploited-abused-by-peacekeepers/

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014...female-genital-mutilation-africa-middle-east/

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/05/30/3443096/honor-killings-pakistan/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/25/somali-reporter-shot-dead-mogadishu

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/04/pakistan-women-right-to-vote

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/...m-voting-in-taliban-stronghold-of-waziristan/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/14/worst-places-in-the-world-for-women-somalia

http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...enital-mutilation-somalia-fgm-audio-slideshow

http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...d_have_read_my_islamic_marriage_contract.html

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/pakistan_has_a_rape_problem_too/

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/08/rights_group_au_troops_in_somalia_raped_locals/

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/apr/10/pakistan-women-voiceless-human-rights

Is this not covering women's rights in Pakistan and Somalia?

first off, theguardian isn't US media.

secondly, I never said women's issues were ignored, my point is the coverage in the US is often decontexualized, disingenuous and told by a privileged, western narrative

do you understand the difference? this is a non-argument.

 

[CHL]

first off, theguardian isn't US media.

secondly, I never said the issues were ignored, my point is the coverage in the US, including the links you posted, is often decontexualized and told by a privileged, western narrative

do you understand the difference? this is a non-argument.

The guardian does have a US offshoot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_US

And really? All of those links posted were told purely from a privleged, western narrative? How would you have liked the articles to come across as?

 

[Ritzy Sharon]

Did you specifiy that you were talking about US media? I thought it was western progressive outlets in general.

idiot, the post you originally quoted was about liberal attitudes in the US.

my patience has officially run out. negged and

 

[Prince.Skeletor]

Napolean you are ruining this thread by going way off topic!

Anyhow, I'm a fan of Reza, I like how he thinks and explains his perspective.
I'm no fan of islam or Christianity, but I enjoy when he's debating.

 

[CHL]

idiot, the post you originally quoted was about liberal attitudes in the US.

my patience has officially run out. negged and

Why don't you actually explain what was wrong with the content of those articles instead of having a cry because you were incorrect?

 

[Ritzy Sharon]

Why don't you actually explain what was wrong with the content of those articles instead of having a cry because you were incorrect?

I have no interest in continuing this conversation with you. but I'd be more than willing to discuss this issue with a poster that isn't a dimwit.

 

[alybaba]

Aslan definitely used some faulty logic, which he should know better than to use, which makes me think he's being intellectually dishonest. For instance, his argument about female political leaders is disingenuous since that is a product of dynastic politics more than anything else.

 

[FAH1223]

Aslan definitely used some faulty logic, which he should know better than to use, which makes me think he's being intellectually dishonest. For instance, his argument about female political leaders is disingenuous since that is a product of dynastic politics more than anything else.

Sure, but look at the idiotic questions and blind rhetoric from the other side

 

[Broke Wave]

I feel like it's because he hates arabs, and he's a selective atheist. You'll never see him go after israel for war crimes etc.

I wonder why.

EXACTLY... I don't really give a shyt about theological arguments against Islam... that comes with the territory... but these thinly veiled racist jabs against Arabs and other Muslims from Maher, who excuses baby killing on his show, are completely indefensible. How can you on the one hand hate Islam yet support a place called the Jewish State that is stealing land based on their own interpretations of religious texts (among other reasons)? What kind of Atheist would have Netanyahu on the show to spout his religious nonsense and give him a complete and total handjob? He is a fukking dweeb without a shred of nuance. The same bumbling oaf who gave a million dollars to Obama. He embarrassed himself that day in my eyes. He hasn't even levied a reasonable criticism at Obama other than "he isn't dictatorial enough"

 

[Broke Wave]

Lol @ this thread... as soon as the attention whore blowhard Napoleon leaves, there are interesting opinions from both sides and the thread becomes a discussion. Ban him from HL