Rick Ross throws Def Jam in the bushes, signs deal with Epic Records

[birdgang91]

Def Jam is shyt as far as hiphop artist as of late,but Epic aint much better far as I can tell

Epic aint do shyt to promote Future properly until he did all the heavy lifting and got himself hot as shyt in this streets/clubs,had a hot single from a tape and buzz was just crazy....I don't think Ross can do these things for himself,especially at this point in his career.

Then again maybe Future isn't as hands on,or know how to play the political game with the people in the offices the way Ross does....but Epic and Def Jam seem one in the same,i guess you might as well go with the one who you don't KNOW aint shyt

To be fair, Rozay is apparently not even on a 360 deal with Epic while Future is. Thats huge in itself because these labels now exist to rob the artist while they put in 0 towards the making and promoting of an album. Ross may have been promised big shyt.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

I'm talking about the Documentary. Doctor's Advocate did 300K first week I think. LAX did 240K first week. Point is, Game isn't gonna see numbers like that again. If he did, he woulda tried to do anything to avoid the indie route, since he has zero chance of seeing those kind of numbers on an indie.

compare album sales of 2006 to 2015 brehs


yea 50 was doing 11 milly back then... now he can't do 30k..

why would you not compare RECENT numbers... like last two vs two prior... there was literally NO fall off going indy... NONE... actually there was a gain



indy is not good if you are NOT established already... that is the ONLY reason to go to a major

because you have no money... they FRONT you money... you use that money to sell records and get your name out


but once you got the fukking money... you no longer need the middle man taking 80% of the profits




you think drake couldn't drop another album tonight on itunes and go gold without the label?? it's literally $39 to put an album on itunes and 100 other online stores... total


he has the name, the fans, the music.... that'd be 500k x $7 (what you get off an album sale on itunes) in a week breh


indy is always the best route unless you don't have the fans or the money to do so... having a middle man is never a good business move in any business

 

[tremonthustler1]

compare album sales of 2006 to 2015 brehs


yea 50 was doing 11 milly back then... now he can't do 30k..

why would you not compare RECENT numbers... like last two vs two prior... there was literally NO fall off going indy... NONE... actually there was a gain

Because the whole reason for why it would be wise for Game to go indie now is because he's not gonna reach the heights he used to have. If he thought he coukd sell the way he used to or even close, do you think he'd entertain eOne? Nope. He's there because if he's only gonna move 150-200K tops, he might as well do so independently. If Game thought he could do better than that, then he'd never make that move, but deep down he knows he's only gonna sell but so much.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Because the whole reason for why it would be wise for Game to go indie now is because he's not gonna reach the heights he used to have. If he thought he coukd sell the way he used to or even close, do you think he'd entertain eOne? Nope. He's there because if he's only gonna move 150-200K tops, he might as well do so independently. If Game thought he could do better than that, then he'd never make that move, but deep down he knows he's only gonna sell but so much.

and ross is in the same damn bracket... doing 150-200k... so again... there was zero reason for him to sign to another major

there's like 7 rappers doing over 250k these days.. and what you are missing is MONEY


you are one of those, i wanna be famous dudes... what's 1 million in sales when you take home 100k? vs 100k in sales but you take home 250k


the avg record deal gets you 10 cents per album sale.... that's after you recoup that advance and budget

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

shyt ain't nothing but a loan breh


Of course, it's actually even more ridiculous than this report makes it out to be. Going back ten years ago, Courtney Love famously laid out the details of recording economics, where the label can make $11 million... and the actual artists make absolutely nothing. It starts off with a band getting a massive $1 million advance, and then you follow the money: What happens to that million dollars?

They spend half a million to record their album. That leaves the band with $500,000. They pay $100,000 to their manager for 20 percent commission. They pay $25,000 each to their lawyer and business manager.

That leaves $350,000 for the four band members to split. After $170,000 in taxes, there's $180,000 left. That comes out to $45,000 per person.

That's $45,000 to live on for a year until the record gets released.

The record is a big hit and sells a million copies. (How a bidding-war band sells a million copies of its debut record is another rant entirely, but it's based on any basic civics-class knowledge that any of us have about cartels. Put simply, the antitrust laws in this country are basically a joke, protecting us just enough to not have to re-name our park service the Phillip Morris National Park Service.)

So, this band releases two singles and makes two videos. The two videos cost a million dollars to make and 50 percent of the video production costs are recouped out of the band's royalties.

The band gets $200,000 in tour support, which is 100 percent recoupable.

The record company spends $300,000 on independent radio promotion. You have to pay independent promotion to get your song on the radio; independent promotion is a system where the record companies use middlemen so they can pretend not to know that radio stations -- the unified broadcast system -- are getting paid to play their records.

All of those independent promotion costs are charged to the band.

Since the original million-dollar advance is also recoupable, the band owes $2 million to the record company.

If all of the million records are sold at full price with no discounts or record clubs, the band earns $2 million in royalties, since their 20 percent royalty works out to $2 a record.

Two million dollars in royalties minus $2 million in recoupable expenses equals ... zero!

How much does the record company make?

They grossed $11 million.

It costs $500,000 to manufacture the CDs and they advanced the band $1 million. Plus there were $1 million in video costs, $300,000 in radio promotion and $200,000 in tour support.

The company also paid $750,000 in music publishing royalties.

They spent $2.2 million on marketing. That's mostly retail advertising, but marketing also pays for those huge posters of Marilyn Manson in Times Square and the street scouts who drive around in vans handing out black Korn T-shirts and backwards baseball caps. Not to mention trips to Scores and cash for tips for all and sundry.

Add it up and the record company has spent about $4.4 million.

So their profit is $6.6 million; the band may as well be working at a 7-Eleven.

 

[tremonthustler1]

and ross is in the same damn bracket... doing 150-200k... so again... there was zero reason for him to sign to another major

there's like 7 rappers doing over 250k these days

but what I'm telling you is that Ross doesn't think he's at that point, which is why he signed to a label run by the guy who was there during Ross' heyday. Either he's gonna have a revival or most likely, he'll put out a record on Epic, brick again and then think "man I should just do this indie" Ross is trying to recreate his past, not admit that his best days are behind him.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

do you want to be rich? or do you want to be famous?


Let’s say your CD is for sale for in stores at $16.00 and that you are a band of 4 that also writes their own material. Your deal is to receive a royalty rate of 11%, but your producer takes 3% of that. So in the end you make 8% net royalty. $16.00 – $8.32 (30% for retailers, 22% for distributors) = $7.68.

Let’s round this off to $8.00 (a very optimistic round up by the way) $8.00 - $2.00 (25% for packaging deducted by the label) = $6.00 X 8% = $0.48. So you make $0.50 per CD sold.

Now let’s say you sell 500,000 copies. So that means you have $250,000 coming to you, right? Nope. Let’s see what else is taken off. In many cases the record label will take another 15% is deducted for promotional and review copies for radio and magazines. $250,000 – $37,500 (15% for promo copies) = $212,500 In addition to that the record label has to take their royalties. That’s another 30% of $212,500. $212,500- $63,750 (30% for record label royalties) = $148,750.

Not as common anymore, but still in practice is the deduction of freebies and returns. What usually happens is that a retail store will X amount of copies, but what happens when they don’t sell? They get returned. And who ends up paying for this? Yup, you guessed it, the artist. $148,750- $14,875 (10% for returns) = $133,875.

Then there are recording studio costs that include the engineer, equipment rentals, and studio costs. With the advancements in the digital recording world studio costs have decreased, but let’s just say you spent $75,000. $133,875- $75,000 = $58,875.

And who got you the deal? If a manager was involved you can guarantee he will take 20% commission. If you are a multi platinum selling artist then maybe the rate drops to 15%. $58,875- $11,775 (20% to manager) = $47,100.

And now let’s say you split the band’s earning evenly. Since there are four members in the band, you’ll split the amount earned 4 ways. $47,100 / 4 = $11,775.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

but what I'm telling you is that Ross doesn't think he's at that point, which is why he signed to a label run by the guy who was there during Ross' heyday. Either he's gonna have a revival or most likely, he'll put out a record on Epic, brick again and then think "man I should just do this indie" Ross is trying to recreate his past, not admit that his best days are behind him.

then ross is an idiot... even in his highest he ain't never been a platinum rapper

he think he about to go plat or even gold in this climate... he's fukking smoking rocks

 

[Ineedmoney504]

I dont know nikkas get awestruck when they see that bonus money... All I know is I remember the video of cam and 50 arguing but cam made a point that stood out to me about sales....



300K on a major vs 300K independent... think about it.... The major your getting fukked on those return profits, an independant where you getting a lion's share of it back which is the better deal???

But u talking bout making a mill or 2 Or having the chance to make 10 due to your notoriety. Him being a major star has helped his business wit wing stop and other stuff, being on a Indy he doesn't have that same reach to do those things

when did 50 ever even allude to that. He's always said he used that money to start Gunit. That's why he owns all of it

50 said on his first deal he used the money and brought coke

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

But u talking bout making a mill or 2 Or having the chance to make 10 due to your notoriety. Him being a major star has helped his business wit wing stop and other stuff, being on a Indy he doesn't have that same reach to do those things



50 said on his first deal he used the money and brought coke

The Decision: Spending the first $300,000 he made to trademark the “50 Cent” and “G-Unit” names

The Year: 2002

The Bottom Line: Just about every dime 50’s made can be traced back to this decision. While most artists spend their advance on new cars, icy chains and the latest threads, Fif used part of his to trademark his name and his future label’s name, which eventually helped him make money to buy all the cars, chains and clothes he could have ever imagined. New artists, take note: Before you do anything else, invest in yourself.

 

[Ineedmoney504]

The Decision: Spending the first $300,000 he made to trademark the “50 Cent” and “G-Unit” names

The Year: 2002

The Bottom Line: Just about every dime 50’s made can be traced back to this decision. While most artists spend their advance on new cars, icy chains and the latest threads, Fif used part of his to trademark his name and his future label’s name, which eventually helped him make money to buy all the cars, chains and clothes he could have ever imagined. New artists, take note: Before you do anything else, invest in yourself.

I'm pretty sure they talking bout the power of a dollar money

 

[ORDER_66]

But u talking bout making a mill or 2 Or having the chance to make 10 due to your notoriety. Him being a major star has helped his business wit wing stop and other stuff, being on a Indy he doesn't have that same reach to do those things

Being on a major is no guarantee he's gonna see a return on those profits all things considered either!!!

Especially if they gonna receive more of it when he puts out an album...

IF he went Independent as is, he could recoup like 75% of his own profits, he has money in the bank AND he's well known now... Right now would have been the perfect moment to be independant!!!

 

[Redwing80]

Signing a dude who's never went platinum and latest album was brick is seen as a win. You dudes couldn't manage a restroom stall.

They listed Ciara, Diddy, Yo Gotti and Outkast and think Ross joining the party would be a good look

hilarious

 

[Ineedmoney504]

Being on a major is no guarantee he's gonna see a return on those profits all things considered either!!!

Especially if they gonna receive more of it when he puts out an album...

IF he went Independent as is, he could recoup like 75% of his own profits, he has money in the bank AND he's well known now... Right now would have been the perfect moment to be independant!!!

U think Ross is looking to put in all that work to make 250k profit? Do u know how much work goes into doing it yourself

The fukk is wrong wit u, talking bout making all the profit like He selling all these records.

If u don't think he can make those same amounts of profit on a major u stupid, being on a major gains u fame and its up to u how u gon finesse that fame into whatever u want. More than likely he didn't sign a 360 deals so wit the labels promo he can make that money off just touring instead of putting all his own money up and failing and losing it all.

Not to mention u know how much money alone would he be putting into just beats?

 

[JayGatsby]

hes a struggling artist


he needed the best deal possible

he also knows his money isnt long enough to hold up MMG on its own