Russell Westbrook says he isn’t sure what Frank Vogel’s issue was with him; sacrificed triple double

[Box Factory]

I know its a prisoner of the moment thing, and that there's far less talented players in the league, but just based off how he played this year, you could make a real argument that he's the worst guy in the league

not the least talented, but the worst in terms of being a starter on your team

 

[Walt]

The Russ lowlight vids remain shocking. They just go on and on and on and on.

 

[Max Power]

People are too in love with novelty stats.

What's a triple double when you're standing underneath the rim snatching rebounds off your big men? Or when you stop passing after your 10th assist?

This is coincidentally when I fell out of love with the NBA. I couldn't believe what was being allowed to happen and then rewarded with praise.

 

[THE MACHINE]

Nah, you're looking at it the wrong way. If you want to see the effect that Westbrook's stat-padding has on the game, you have to look at every game he tries to stat-pad, not just the times where he succeeded. Otherwise you ignore that for every successful triple-double there were just as many games where he tried to stat-pad and lost. Triple-doubles are most likely when your teammates make a lot of shots (assists) and your opponent misses a lot of shots (rebounds). Since Russ was trying to stat-pad a triple-double in EVERY game, you can't look at his record just in the triple-doubles as the measure of his play. It's more that a successful triple-double was a measure of how well his teammates in that game were happening to make shots and play defense.


Think of it like a video game. Imagine that you had a teammate whose technique was to charge the enemy base melee-style every single time. You tell him, "Going melee is detrimental to the team", but he says, "Nah, look, every time I destroy the enemy base we win!" Then you ask, "But what about all the times you tried and lost?"


Those are Russ's triple-doubles, you have to look at all the times he was forcing assists and not playing defense to chase rebounds, only his teammates didn't make the shots to give him assists because the shots were forced and he didn't get the rebounds because his shytty defense was contributing to the opponent making their shots.

Im not sure how you define stat padding though? Going hard for rebounds? Handing off layups for assists?

I'll admit, my definition of stat-padding is a lot more strict than others, and I rarely accuse players of doing it. Like being up/down 20 under a minute and shooting with 20 seconds on the shot clock is stat padding. Missing on purpose to grab a rebound is stat padding. But always playing hard even in losses doesn't constitute stat padding to me. Thinking the offense runs better through you, even when you're completely wrong, doesnt constitute stat padding to me. I think Russ wants to win more than anything and he plays as hard as anyone. Hes just not nearly good enough to lead a team there, and never has been.

Looks like you're saying when he passes and teammates miss shots, they used to lose. And if the end result of a triple double results in a 80% win percentage then it would appear playing a style that leads to triple doubles would be effective. Stars play well alongside Russ (KD 4x scoring champ all with Russ, Harden scoring champ with Russ, PG was damn near MVP with Russ and posted his highest PPG, Brad Beal highest PPG of his career and 2nd in scoring, Bron highest PPG in 15 seasons with Russ) Bron can play off ball, Russ cannot. Injuries robbed them this season. 11-10 while they all were together isnt great but it takes time to mesh and I think they would have hit their stride eventually.

Weren't the Heat 9-8 in 2010 to start
Werent the Cavs 5-7 in 2014 to start

Destroying an enemy base is the win in your scenario, so he cant say "Every time we win, we win." But Russ, "What about the time you lost, then we lost"
Going melee (triple double) worked, but when his teammates missed their sniping shots or point blank hand to hand combat losses, they lost. And it showed because his rebounds and assists would be down. And dont get me wrong, he was a huge part of bad defense and he himself cant shoot. That style worked the best it could but he was never going to be the best player on a championship team.

Like saying if Bron scoring 30ppg led to an 80% win clip. Then saying "Bron scoring 30 is not effective because when Bron doesnt score 30 the team loses a lot" so its Brons fault. Doesnt make sense

 

[Killer Instinct]

They gotta get rid of this dude. I don't give a fukk how. Get rid of him.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Im not sure how you define stat padding though? Going hard for rebounds? Handing off layups for assists?

I'm saying stat-padding is whenever you do something unnecessary or sometimes even detrimental solely for the purpose of increasing your own stats. Did an entire thread on it:

The meaning(lessness) of Westbrook's triple-doubles



In Westbrook's case, this includes:

1. Hunting assists until he got to 10 and then shooting like crazy after that. Game after game he'd play completely differently before he got to 10 assists than he played after 10 assists.

2. Hunting his 10th assist at the end of the game when all he had to do was run out the clock.

3. Hunting assists when he needs to get his overall assist average over 10. This was blatant as fukk - whenever he had a certain milestone to hit he'd suddenly start averaging 15 assists every game.

4. Leaving his man open on defense to instead lurk around the rim hoping to get a rebound. He would do this dumb shyt even in the clutch of critical games.

5. Waiting for free throw rebounds when his bigs could easily get them.

6. Stealing rebounds from his bigs who were boxing out guys and explicitly not touching the board.

Looks like you're saying when he passes and teammates miss shots, they used to lose. And if the end result of a triple double results in a 80% win percentage then it would appear playing a style that leads to triple doubles would be effective.

That's not how it works - you have cause and effect backwards. Playing winning basketball leads to more assists and rebounds for everyone on your team. When you're playing winning basketball it means your team makes more shots (more assists) and the other team misses more shots (more rebounds). So your entire team gets more assists and more rebounds.

Westbrook's style of play doesn't increase the assists and rebounds for the entire team. He just increases how many assists and rebounds are personally for him.

Stars play well alongside Russ (KD 4x scoring champ all with Russ, Harden scoring champ with Russ, PG was damn near MVP with Russ and posted his highest PPG, Brad Beal highest PPG of his career and 2nd in scoring, Bron highest PPG in 15 seasons with Russ) Bron can play off ball, Russ cannot.

None of that shyt happened cause Russ was chasing triple-doubles.

When KD was on OKC the coaches were repeatedly on Russ's ass about chasing triple-doubles and kept him in check to a degree. After KD left and OKC became a scrub team they started letting him do what he wanted, which wasn't good for the team but made Russ feel good. In Houston he only averaged 8 rebounds and 7 assists, nowhere near a triple-double. And then on the Lakers they didn't put up with that shyt either - in fact Bron's scoring was best AFTER they neutered Russ and kept the ball out of his hands as much as possible (averaged just 6 rebounds and 5-6 assists the last couple months of the season even with Bron doing all that scoring).

ALL your examples of stars doing well along Russ were when he had to lay off hunting triple-doubles. Hmmmm.....doesn't that say something to you?

Like saying if Bron scoring 30ppg led to an 80% win clip. Then saying "Bron scoring 30 is not effective because when Bron doesnt score 30 the team loses a lot" so its Brons fault. Doesnt make sense

That's a perfect comparison. Let's say Bron shoots 20 times every game, and you pointed out "Hey, when Bron makes shots they win, but when he misses shots they lose." Well no shyt, that's how basketball works. That doesn't tell you whether Bron should be shooting more or shooting less. You can't look at the result because that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You have to look at what he's actually doing (shot attempts), not the scoring totals, or your analysis is meaningless.

With Westbrook, you should be looking at when he's stat-padding vs. when he's not and see which time he wins more. You can't just assume that he wasn't stat-padding in all those games he wasn't getting triple-doubles, cause for those four seasons he was hunting triple-doubles EVERY game.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

@THE MACHINE - one part of that post you should really see (besides a LOT of other blatant stat-padding):



December 5: Westbrook gets 8 assists in the first half and his 10th with 6:19 still remaining in the 3rd, more than 18 minutes left in the game. He takes 11 shots in 10 more minutes of play but only gets 2 more assists.

December 9: Westbrook gets 7 assists in the first half and his 10th with 8:03 left in the 3rd to maintain his streak of seven consecutive triple-doubles. He doesn’t get another assist the entire game, but takes 14 more shots.

December 23: Westbrook racks up 9 assists in the first half and his 10th with 9:32 left in the 3rd quarter. He only gets one more assist the rest of the game, though he takes another 10 shots.

December 27: Westbrook secures his 10th assist with 3:39 still left in the SECOND quarter. 10 assists in 20 minutes. So in the next 28 minutes of game time, he takes 14 shots compared to only 1 assist.

February 3: Westbrook has 8 assists in the first half and gets his 10th assist with 7:28 left in the 3rd quarter. He takes 11 shots and 9 free throws the rest of the way but only manages 2 more assists.

February 15: Westbrook gets his 10th assist just before the half ends, and his 11th with 11:50 remaining in the 3rd quarter. He then takes 14 shots the rest of the way, but only gets 1 more assist.

February 26: Westbrook has 9 assists in the first half and gets his 10th with 9:05 left in the 3rd. He only puts up one more assist the rest of the game, jacking up thirteen shots in the 4th quarter alone.

February 28: Westbrook gets 9 assists in the first half, but only one more assist the rest of the game (with 8:43 left in the 4th to complete his triple-double). After getting his 10th assist with a 13 point lead, he then misses 7 shots in 5 minutes, letting Utah back in the game, before making his next 5 attempts to get the Thunder the win. 6-13 shooting without a single assist once the triple-double was completed, to blow a 13-point lead before salvaging a 3-point win. This was the game that “proved” Russ was clutch, according to the Coli.



In game after game, Russ would blatantly hunt assists in order to get his triple-double, and once that was secured he blatantly changed his style of play because he wasn't hunting the triple-double anymore and how he cared more about getting his point totals up. That's pure stat-padding.

 

[im not you]

but dudes are quick to point out hes 1st ballot hof to shyt on bron

 

[Professor Emeritus]

This is coincidentally when I fell out of love with the NBA. I couldn't believe what was being allowed to happen and then rewarded with praise.

Look at my posts from that time period - I was completely bewildered that folk were enabling that shyt. I mean I didn't expect much more from The Coli but coaches should have shut it down, media should have called it out for what it was. He never should have been MVP that year.

 

[Jazzy B.]

A true testament to KD's greatness that he was able to get OKC to multiple WCF's playing with this bonehead


I don't think there's another player in the current NBA who could do that

 

[THE MACHINE]

@THE MACHINE - one part of that post you should really see (besides a LOT of other blatant stat-padding):



December 5: Westbrook gets 8 assists in the first half and his 10th with 6:19 still remaining in the 3rd, more than 18 minutes left in the game. He takes 11 shots in 10 more minutes of play but only gets 2 more assists.

December 9: Westbrook gets 7 assists in the first half and his 10th with 8:03 left in the 3rd to maintain his streak of seven consecutive triple-doubles. He doesn’t get another assist the entire game, but takes 14 more shots.

December 23: Westbrook racks up 9 assists in the first half and his 10th with 9:32 left in the 3rd quarter. He only gets one more assist the rest of the game, though he takes another 10 shots.

December 27: Westbrook secures his 10th assist with 3:39 still left in the SECOND quarter. 10 assists in 20 minutes. So in the next 28 minutes of game time, he takes 14 shots compared to only 1 assist.

February 3: Westbrook has 8 assists in the first half and gets his 10th assist with 7:28 left in the 3rd quarter. He takes 11 shots and 9 free throws the rest of the way but only manages 2 more assists.

February 15: Westbrook gets his 10th assist just before the half ends, and his 11th with 11:50 remaining in the 3rd quarter. He then takes 14 shots the rest of the way, but only gets 1 more assist.

February 26: Westbrook has 9 assists in the first half and gets his 10th with 9:05 left in the 3rd. He only puts up one more assist the rest of the game, jacking up thirteen shots in the 4th quarter alone.

February 28: Westbrook gets 9 assists in the first half, but only one more assist the rest of the game (with 8:43 left in the 4th to complete his triple-double). After getting his 10th assist with a 13 point lead, he then misses 7 shots in 5 minutes, letting Utah back in the game, before making his next 5 attempts to get the Thunder the win. 6-13 shooting without a single assist once the triple-double was completed, to blow a 13-point lead before salvaging a 3-point win. This was the game that “proved” Russ was clutch, according to the Coli.



In game after game, Russ would blatantly hunt assists in order to get his triple-double, and once that was secured he blatantly changed his style of play because he wasn't hunting the triple-double anymore and how he cared more about getting his point totals up. That's pure stat-padding.

Good stuff, I’ll check this out in a bit

 

[Smokin Rider]

Russ might flat out be the dumbest basketball player ever

You aint winning shyt with someone who views basketball like this on your team

This the type of shyt a 10 year old says...not someone who is a 10 year vet

KD got to be in the top 1% of Mensa to have gone to the WCF 3 times and finals once with this Bebop and Rocksteady ass nikka

All that shyt with Westbrook only enhances KD's legacy. He would have cooked had he had a PG with a better BBall IQ

 

[Jplaya2023]

I wish i had the delusional self confidence and all out aloofness that has. Its incredible really

 

[TillWeDie]

the next coach is going to be doomed no matter what like a turkey in november

They need to bring in Gordon Ramsay to curse out Russ

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

I wish i had the delusional self confidence and all out aloofness that has. Its incredible really

If he actually worked on his game on top of that he could’ve been an other worldly player. His Sabo nature intervened and here we are today