Seems Kevin Love Has Already Mentally Left The Timberwolves

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Oh. Cool then. The Celtics are like the Pats, I guess. These mystical, magical systems that allow particular players to put up outstanding stat lines that few others have ever approached, yet no one else in the league can figure out how to copy the system and turn their shytty players into statistical monsters.

I'm not even a Rondo fan, and I hate the Celtics.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA @ "I see how he gets them, I've watched him for years." Yeah, I watch him too, all the time. 24 "fake" triple-doubles and 20 assist games with absolutely no integrity, it's disgusting. Lit the Heat up for 44-10-8 in a playoff game... but Eddie House would've done the same, it's because he plays with past-their-prime geezers.

:troll:

Dude is right.

It's how everything is aligned in order for him to gather those stats, in the way that it actually impacts (or in Rondo's case - how it doesn't) the game. His stats don't really mean shyt. Teams don't copy that system, because it's ineffective basketball.
 

tremonthustler1

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Yes, but him maxing out as your best player isn't gonna lead the 'wolves anywhere. I'd say he's nearly hit his ceiling as an NBA player (he doesn't have any athleticism to grow into and his understanding and control of the game is 90% of the way there), he's never gonna be a PG you can legitimately build around in the league. Historical trends really have no matter in this case, it isn't about being hopeful or knowing you're gonna be x strong in that area for years to come; it's about maximize your best chance at winning.

A team with Rubio as the centerpiece isn't going down either path when it comes to the fork in the road (legitimate contenders >< destroy+rebuild).

He can always improve his shooting. Controlling tempo comes with consistency and that can be polished and refined. He's definitely come along as a rebounder and being defensively aware has its impact. That stuff can be improved. We have to remember. He's 22 years old. He's nowhere near his prime. Some of the more unathletic PG's didn't fully come into their own until they were 25. What makes a Rubio /Love/Pek so potent is that they're very throwback in what they do.
 

Greenstrings

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Dude is right.

It's how everything is aligned in order for him to gather those stats, in the way that it actually impacts (or in Rondo's case - how it doesn't) the game. His stats don't really mean shyt. Teams don't copy that system, because it's ineffective basketball.
:usure:
Their "ineffective basketball" nearly beat the Heat in the Eastern conference Final, when everybody was saying Heat in 4/5 beforehand.

He's their best ball handler, so he handles the ball. It's as simple as that Why do fools talk as if the Doc Rivers sits around trying to maximise everybody's fantasy points.
 

Walt

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He can always improve his shooting. Controlling tempo comes with consistency and that can be polished and refined. He's definitely come along as a rebounder and being defensively aware has its impact. That stuff can be improved. We have to remember. He's 22 years old. He's nowhere near his prime. Some of the more unathletic PG's didn't fully come into their own until they were 25. What makes a Rubio /Love/Pek so potent is that they're very throwback in what they do.

For the record, I think Rubio has been overhyped but I also think he's talented and like watching him play and I hope he improves his shooting and that the T-Wolves become a force in the West. I like their team a lot, actually, and Adelman has long been one of my favorite coaches.

:usure:
Their "ineffective basketball" nearly beat the Heat in the Eastern conference Final, when everybody was saying Heat in 4/5 beforehand.

He's their best ball handler, so he handles the ball. It's as simple as that Why do fools talk as if the Doc Rivers sits around trying to maximise everybody's fantasy points.

Pretty sure he was being facetious.
 
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He can always improve his shooting. Controlling tempo comes with consistency and that can be polished and refined. He's definitely come along as a rebounder and being defensively aware has its impact. That stuff can be improved. We have to remember. He's 22 years old. He's nowhere near his prime. Some of the more unathletic PG's didn't fully come into their own until they were 25. What makes a Rubio /Love/Pek so potent is that they're very throwback in what they do.

Rubio's ceiling is that small room in Willy Wonka status. He's been playing in professional leagues for 6+ seasons - IMO he doesn't have a growth/improvement spurt to reach this level of a player you can build around (what you see is 'basically' what you get). It's not like he's gonna go up another gear form where he actually is face-valued at now. Plus the ever-evolving player/athlete at the PG spot (and its outside demands), closes that ceiling even more.
 
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:usure:
Their "ineffective basketball" nearly beat the Heat in the Eastern conference Final, when everybody was saying Heat in 4/5 beforehand.

He's their best ball handler, so he handles the ball. It's as simple as that Why do fools talk as if the Doc Rivers sits around trying to maximise everybody's fantasy points.

What nearly beat a team that basically had no front court + their 2nd best player and had Lebron moonlighting as a C/PF? What happened when Bosh came back? Them ol' nikkas woulda had their backs blown out by the Bulls prior, pause, if Rose didn't get injured. Everything is aligned (unintentionally of course) in a way that Rondo gets these TD-box scores, that basically have no bearing on his actual impact on the game.

Pretty sure he was being facetious.

Rondo is my Walt's KG.

:rejoice:
 
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Rondo is a beast yall wilding right now

lolrondo.0_standard_709.0.gif


:usure:
 

Greenstrings

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What nearly beat a team that basically had no front court + their 2nd best player and had Lebron moonlighting as a C/PF? What happened when Bosh came back? Them ol' nikkas woulda had their backs blown out by the Bulls prior, pause, if Rose didn't get injured. Everything is aligned (unintentionally of course) in a way that Rondo gets these TD-box scores, that basically have no bearing on his actual impact on the game.



Rondo is my Walt's KG.

:rejoice:
Firstly, :comeon: Bosh is not the Heat's second best player and fukk the Bulls talk. It didn't happen, let's talk about what did. Nobody expected them to compete and they did largely because of Rondo. My point stands.

Nobody that actually watches Celtics games and sees how often their offense stagnates when he's not on the floor would say such nonsense.
 

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Firstly, :comeon: Bosh is not the Heat's second best player and fukk the Bulls talk. It didn't happen, let's talk about what did. Nobody expected them to compete and they did largely because of Rondo. My point stands.

Nobody that actually watches Celtics games and sees how often their offense stagnates when he's not on the floor would say such nonsense.

In terms of how successful the Heat are - Bosh is their 2nd best player.

Your point is invalid. It's not just black and white. Did you fail to remember they nearly lost to the Hawks and the 76ers - both series' went 7 games? Did you fail to remember that the Celtics had one of the worst offenses in the playoffs/league last season? The Bulls talk is very relevant, Celtics ain't in the ECF frame if Rose was healthy. You take out the best player from any team (last season) and weigh the variables and see how drastically it would affect the playoff picture.

Stagnates when he's not on the floor? It comes to a standstill when he's actually on the floor.
 

Loose

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:damn:

@Loose

imagine if the thunder woulda gave minny harden and perkins for kevin love :noah:

ibaka
love
durant
looseuno
westbrook

:noah:

:dead: at adding me to the lineup, but our defense would be trash but.. the offense :lawd:
 
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Greenstrings

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In terms of how successful the Heat are - Bosh is their 2nd best player.

Your point is invalid. It's not just black and white. Did you fail to remember they nearly lost to the Hawks and the 76ers - both series' went 7 games? Did you fail to remember that the Celtics had one of the worst offenses in the playoffs/league last season? The Bulls talk is very relevant, Celtics ain't in the ECF frame if Rose was healthy. You take out the best player from any team (last season) and weigh the variables and see how drastically it would affect the playoff picture.

Stagnates when he's not on the floor? It comes to a standstill when he's actually on the floor.
This is how I know you fundamentally misunderstand how the Celtics play. They are a defensive team, they have no legs and no fast break. So they break their opponents down by suppressing their offense, hence why they had the best defensive rating in the league last season. That is not specifically down to Rondo. That is dictated by the pace at which the slowest of the starting 5 is able to play and a stylistic choice by Rivers.

Rondo brings up play, then slows it down one, because the C's run a lot of iso's and two because it gives KG and Pierce time to recoup. The simple fact is, if Rondo wasn't creating good looks for his team he wouldn't be averaging so many assists.

The Hawks series went 6 but don't let reality get in the way of whatever point it is you're trying to prove. And please, there are a number of reasons why the Celtics struggled early in the playoffs. (Ray Allen going subzero for one), but unless you're going to point out exactly why those struggles are down to Rondo then what is your point? How does a 13 game sample size demonstrate that Rondo's play doesn't benefit the C's?

And dude stop bringing hypothetical shyt into this. It's not helpful or relevant and if this keeps up we'll be here all night. The Bulls did not make it past Philly so there is no way of knowing what would have happened. End of. We're talking about whether or not Rondo's play has a positive impact on the C's. All this tangential shyt about what would have happened if not for so and so is irrelevant.
 
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They are a defensive team
:ohhh:

This is how I know you fundamentally misunderstand how the Celtics play.
We don't know who's gonna be the most important/instrumental player for the Celtics this season - all we know is who was the most important player last season.

Celtics defense in the regular season: #1 ranked defense rating, #1 ranked in opposition FG% in the paint and #2 ranked in opposition points per game.

Celtics defense in the playoffs: Celtics' defense allowed 90.65 points per 100 possessions - Garnett on court; ranked #1 in the league.

Celtics' defense allowed 123.28 points per 100 possessions - Garnett off court; ranked last in the league.

Top ranked Celtic players:

Kevin Garnett +32.63 points
Avery Bradley +11.1 points
Marquis Daniels +4.0 points
Mickeal Pietrus +2.4 points
Player(s) gap
Rajon Rondo -2.1 points

He was the difference between the Celtics being the BEST defensive team in the playoffs and being the WORST.

+ KG had added-responsibility in the front court with O'Neal only playing a small portion of the season - forcing him to move to C.

You may say that statistics are only part of the picture; context and eye-test(s) need to be taken into account. Context/eye test = in over 16 seasons, Garnett has proven he's ONE of the greatest defenders of all time and since he's joined the Celtics, they've been a top 5 ranked defense every single year (before Garnett the Celtics were defensively-ranked 16th, 20th, 14th since Rivers has been head coach). The statistics are just there as evidential proof to say he's still performing at an elite level on the defensive end; even though he's lost x-amount of athleticism.

You say Celtics would have a defensive philosophy/mentality regardless of Garnett being on the team, but would they still have had the same production and effectiveness on defense without Garnett?

You say who would run that offense if you took Rondo out + saying his loss would be more detrimental -

Celtics offense in the regular season: #26th ranked in points per game, #21st ranked in pace, #27th in offensive rating.

Celtics offense in the playoffs: #10th out of 16 ranked in points per game, #11th out of 16 ranked offense in pace; #10th ranked out of 16 in offensive rating.

You may say they're slower paced due to the age of the big three, then you also have to apply that reasoning to their defense, afterall defenses need to adjust and play (+ manipulate) to the pace of the opposition offenses' as well. Translation = old legs have an impact on the offensive end just like they do on the defensive end. A major part of their lowly-ranked/inefficient offense was that Rondo crippled the fluidity of the offense by not creating his own offense (21st ranked PG for drawing fouls in the league) and teams not being threatened by his shooting ability (therefore focussing on other players on the floor - team's help-defensive schemes had one less player to account for). He was too reliant on spacing and players finding openings, which halted the pace and momentum (therefore defenses would have a higher % of being set) rather than creating and capitalising on miss-matchups and attempting his own shot. He still hasn't consistently figured out how to run a fluid offense; balancing when to shoot/when to pass.

On the other side of the court - KG was the most offensively-productive PF/C in the playoffs and he also was the most productive scoring-threat for the Celtics in the playoffs too - leading the team with 19 PPG on 50% shooting. Both Allen and Pierce scored less and both shot 38%/39% in the playoffs.

Point is - KG had a larger-bearing on the Celtics winning% than Rondo did in the entire '11/'12 season, it's not an opinion - it's a fact.

All that shyt you just wrote, could be a blanket statement for another x-franchise PG. He runs their offense but that doesn't negate him from having no impact and putting up empty stats. A player can still break between the two. And no I don't mean he has ZERO impact, I'm saying his box score's are not indicative of his actual impact. Lets' just take this season for example -

52% FG, 30% 3PT, 55% FT, 5.1 RPG, 13 ASPG, 2.3 SPG, 15.4 PPG.

The only stat that is a true telling of his impact/ability is his free-throw percentage and a case can be made for his 3-point percentage plus his points per game. The rest aren't. Should his FG% be used as an argument to say he's a better shooter than D-Will (46%) this season? Should his FG% as a PG be used as an argument to push an MVP case or push his case against other PGs (who have similar stats in other areas) but have lower FG%?

Should his RPG be used as an argument to say he's the best rebounding PG in the game? Why because he capitalises of being the ONLY player near rebounding-opportunities due to Doc's game-plan of getting back on D rather than x-rebound? Should his RPG be used as evidence as to why he's a better PG than x-player - when he benefits by playing in one of the worst rebounding teams in the league (for seasons that extend through the majority of his career) and hasn't played with a double-digit rebounder since he became the Celtics starting PG?

Should his ASPG be used as evidence to say he's the best PG (or amongst them) in the league when he orchestrated one of the worst-efficient offenses in the league for the last few seasons? Should his ASPG be used as evidence when the Celtics are JS-heavy team and he benefits from instantaneous shots from passes? Should his ASPG be used as evidence when he's the second-to-last player to touch the ball in swing-ball opportunities? Should his ASPG be used as evidence when that's his primarily job and is a #3 scoring option? Why do the Celtics have constant droughts on the offense-end (this season and immediate past seasons)?

When I say his box scores aren't indicative of his true playing ability/impact, I say it because they aren't. He's NEVER EVER EVER had to handle an offense-load like Rose, Paul, D-Will, Parker and even Westbrook and had an impact of those players because he's never been the #1 option on the regular. He's benefited from being the #3 /#4 option guy the majority of his career and no it shouldn't be used to slight him, just like it shouldn't be used as evidence to say he's better than the aforementioned players. Simply because he's NEVER been in the opportunity on the regular to have that impact.

A future-case on the contrary is Harden - and his stats from last season to this season. He went from being #3 to the #1 option and look at how it's affected his impact and efficiency. Yes it's only a sample size (+ growing pains) but it's a telling that his impact last season is not all as it seems. You couldn't properly gauge his ability until he was put into this situation; a situation of having to do everything himself. He's having to deal with 1st units and #1 defenders as opposed to what he was accustomed to last season. His flaws are on full display - flaws that were covered by his situation in OKC.

This is why this all dates back to Rondo being in the discussion of being one of the best PGs or in this thread's case an MVP-candidate and his statistical readings being used as evidence, when he's not in the struggle that other x-MVP candidates and x-PGs are. I can't take his stats seriously until he's in that predicament.

Rondo brings up play, then slows it down one, because the C's run a lot of iso's and two because it gives KG and Pierce time to recoup. The simple fact is, if Rondo wasn't creating good looks for his team he wouldn't be averaging so many assists.

Naw, it's slow in pace because he waits at the top until off-ball screens break off an open player and he dishes (it's not based on this 'Rondo knows how to get players open bullshyt'); followed by a simultaneous J = assist. The majority of his assists are offball-screens/Js and elbow/wing/block throw-downs to Pierce/Garnett (who actually do the work). The team's jumpshooting-style boosts his A#s.

The Hawks series went 6 but don't let reality get in the way of whatever point it is you're trying to prove. And please, there are a number of reasons why the Celtics struggled early in the playoffs. (Ray Allen going subzero for one), but unless you're going to point out exactly why those struggles are down to Rondo then what is your point? How does a 13 game sample size demonstrate that Rondo's play doesn't benefit the C's?

And dude stop bringing hypothetical shyt into this. It's not helpful or relevant and if this keeps up we'll be here all night. The Bulls did not make it past Philly so there is no way of knowing what would have happened. End of. We're talking about whether or not Rondo's play has a positive impact on the C's. All this tangential shyt about what would have happened if not for so and so is irrelevant.
I ain't just talking about the playoffs, shyt was evident all throughout the season. The hypothetical scenarios are relevant because you proclaimed they nearly beat the Heat in the Eastern conference finals. x amount of fortunes went their way in getting that far, if all the teams were on an level-pegging (healthy Rose/healthy Bosh) they would've been ousted from the playoffs in the 2nd round.

As Pierce/KG fall on the decline - his flaws will be more and more exposed.
 
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