So, how much terrorism is Trump about to cause with this Jerusalem is the capital of Israel shyt?

[Techniec]

Yea but it’s only a “holy city” because Jews religion/history said so.

If anyone (Palestinian/Arabs) chooses to also believe this then how can they logically be against anything in the Jewish people interests regarding Jerusalem.

If all people believe the same thing truly then there would be no conflict

I think the people causing conflict hold the city or land of more importance than the rights of people living in it

People Killing each other for the sake of a holy land makes no sense

I like to think it has nothing to do with religion these days and more about immigration And 2 cultures hating each other for thousands of years so they can’t even live in the same region

There is a famous Pro Zionist talking point

That Jews have had a "connection" or "presence" in Jerusalem for centuries

Which is true, it's use as a talking point aside

But if you follow this thinking to it logical conclusion, you have to appreciate that for the last 1200 years Jerusalem was in Muslim hands

So this continuous Jewish presence was never disgarded, disrespected or ended by Muslim rule. Jews lived in Jerusalem and for the most part were not prevented from worship etc

So the issues isn't Muslim refusal to acknowledge the significance of Jerusalem to the Jews

But also note that Muslims have a separate reason to consider Jerusalem holy. It's not just because the Jews consider it holy. And the Christians have their own reasons

 

[19-]

There is a famous Pro Zionist talking point

That Jews have had a "connection" or "presence" in Jerusalem for centuries

Which is true, it's use as a talking point aside

But if you follow this thinking to it logical conclusion, you have to appreciate that for the last 1200 years Jerusalem was in Muslim hands

So this continuous Jewish presence was never disgarded, disrespected or ended by Muslim rule. Jews lived in Jerusalem and for the most part were not prevented from worship etc

So the issues isn't Muslim refusal to acknowledge the significance of Jerusalem to the Jews

But also note that Muslims have a separate reason to consider Jerusalem holy. It's not just because the Jews consider it holy. And the Christians have their own reasons

yeah like muhammad going off to heaven from the dome of the rock

 

[DoubleClutch]

There is a famous Pro Zionist talking point

That Jews have had a "connection" or "presence" in Jerusalem for centuries

Which is true, it's use as a talking point aside

But if you follow this thinking to it logical conclusion, you have to appreciate that for the last 1200 years Jerusalem was in Muslim hands

So this continuous Jewish presence was never disgarded, disrespected or ended by Muslim rule. Jews lived in Jerusalem and for the most part were not prevented from worship etc

So the issues isn't Muslim refusal to acknowledge the significance of Jerusalem to the Jews

But also note that Muslims have a separate reason to consider Jerusalem holy. It's not just because the Jews consider it holy. And the Christians have their own reasons

Yes but if you look at the history of Jewish people they’ve always been under some type of foreign rule in “their land” but that doesn’t make it right or acceptable by them

Same thing for South Africa and apartheid or India under British rule, etc..

Those being ruled over might have all the rights and freedoms but deep down they know it’s not right and eventually seek independence

But for jews it was always different because their religious beliefs also seem to require they rule themselves “God willing”
so their goal was always to have their former glory and have their own state and religious identity unique from Muslims or Christians

And what other reason do Muslims consider Jerusalem holy?

The dome of the rock?

 

[19-]

Yes but if you look at the history of Jewish people they’ve always been under some type of foreign rule in “their land” but that doesn’t make it right or acceptable by them

Same thing for South Africa and apartheid or India under British rule, etc..

Those being ruled over might have all the rights and freedoms but deep down they know it’s not right and eventually seek independence

But for jews it was always different because their religious beliefs also seem to require they rule themselves “God willing”
so their goal was always to have their former glory and have their own state and religious identity unique from Muslims or Christians

And what other reason do Muslims consider Jerusalem holy?

The dome of the rock?

indians and black south africans were still the majority in those occupied territories, whereas palestinian muslims were the majority of palestine for hundreds of years and didnt voluntarily leave. the comparison you made is more comparable to ottoman turks ruling over arab peoples in palestine and european jews didnt seek "independence" in their european communies but in palestine.
as far as the point that the jewish goal was to always have a state in palestine, its true that jews consider(ed) their return to the territory of israel as a religious inevitability. but it was not their historic goal to have a state there. nation-states are a very recent concept, and the idea that there should be a jewish one in palestine is less than two hundred years old. before theodor hertzl and early zionist thinkers jews didnt have that as a goal. in fact the idea that there is a single jewish "people" with a common national identity is very new in the scale of jewish history.
the book "the invention of the jewish people" by shlomo sand goes into good detail about this. i reccomend it, it gives a good perspective on how jewish people historically considered themselves and their communities.

 

[ineedsleep212]

 

[19-]

fukk that bytch i hope she die slow

 

[Techniec]

Yes but if you look at the history of Jewish people they’ve always been under some type of foreign rule in “their land” but that doesn’t make it right or acceptable by them

Same thing for South Africa and apartheid or India under British rule, etc..

Those being ruled over might have all the rights and freedoms but deep down they know it’s not right and eventually seek independence

But for jews it was always different because their religious beliefs also seem to require they rule themselves “God willing”
so their goal was always to have their former glory and have their own state and religious identity unique from Muslims or Christians

And what other reason do Muslims consider Jerusalem holy?

The dome of the rock?

There actually is no religious justification for a Jewish state. My understanding is that they were destined to live in exile until the Messiah came

Zionism was the byproduct of Atheists in the context of 19th century nation state building

Jerusalem wasn't part of the original partition that the Jews accepted. It certainly wasn't a precondition to them having a state.

If the Jews get a state, so do the Palestinians. And if the Jews get a capital in Jerusalem so do the Palestinians

And the Islamic significance is from the Dome but more importantly that's where the Prophet descended to heaven

 

[Brian O'Conner]

The zionist in Israel will show no remorse because they consider the Palestinians "souless animals". Modern Jewdism is worse than White Supremecy b/c it is explicitly stated MANY times in their Talmud/Holy Books that gentiles/outsiders or "Goy", which they like to call behind our backs, are nothing but animals that should be treated as cattle..... it is indoctrinated to them at a very early age that they are a superior race.... That they are free to kill, rape, steal and cheat non-jews with impunity

 

[DoubleClutch]

There actually is no religious justification for a Jewish state. My understanding is that they were destined to live in exile until the Messiah came

Zionism was the byproduct of Atheists in the context of 19th century nation state building

Jerusalem wasn't part of the original partition that the Jews accepted. It certainly wasn't a precondition to them having a state.

If the Jews get a state, so do the Palestinians. And if the Jews get a capital in Jerusalem so do the Palestinians

And the Islamic significance is from the Dome but more importantly that's where the Prophet descended to heaven

It says this in their Jewish scripture?

Either way, governments don’t take into account Bible prophecy or religious beliefs from either side.

Religion plays a part obviously but I think they consider instead what Jewish people need to practice their religion and culture. And Jerusalem or the “holy land” is too significant to their daily life and too much a part of their history to deny it to them.

Muslims have Mecca right? Is Jerusalem a more important landmark that that in Islam? Do Muslims need to visit Jerusalem like they make pilgrimages to Mecca?

The thing with “religious significance” in Islam is that something like where Muhammad descended not proveable and subject to those who believe in the Koran and follow Islam

The Jewish people actually have a historic significance (the temple) among other religious landmarks that reinforce their beliefs/culture and practices.

All these things predate Islam, Muhammad, the dome of the rock etc....

So that’s why the UN, USA, Donald Trump and most non Muslims would take Jewish Israeli “religious significance” for claiming Jerusalem as more valid than the Arab Palestinians.

 

[50CentStan]

everytime that c*nt speaks all the UN ambassadors need to walk out. fukking bytch. but they won't cuz they get American $$$

 

[19-]

It says this in their Jewish scripture?

Either way, governments don’t take into account Bible prophecy or religious beliefs from either side.

Religion plays a part obviously but I think they consider instead what Jewish people need to practice their religion and culture. And Jerusalem or the “holy land” is too significant to their daily life and too much a part of their history to deny it to them.

Muslims have Mecca right? Is Jerusalem a more important landmark that that in Islam? Do Muslims need to visit Jerusalem like they make pilgrimages to Mecca?

The thing with “religious significance” in Islam is that something like where Muhammad descended not proveable and subject to those who believe in the Koran and follow Islam

The Jewish people actually have a historic significance (the temple) among other religious landmarks that reinforce their beliefs/culture and practices.

All these things predate Islam, Muhammad, the dome of the rock etc....

So that’s why the UN, USA, Donald Trump and most non Muslims would take Jewish Israeli “religious significance” for claiming Jerusalem as more valid than the Arab Palestinians.

the al-aqsa mosque has been historically important throughout muslim history as a significant religious site that caliphs prayed at. theres real historic evidence for that too.
mecca and medina are definitely more historic cities in islam than jerusalem and making a pilgrimage to jerusalem isnt a pillar of the religion. but historically devoted muslims did make pilgrimages to al-aqsa and other sites in jerusalem. it is very significant for reasons unrelated to its significance in jerusalem.
as for the last point about jewish israeli significance, the muslim significance of jerusalem isnt as important a reason for palestinians (many of whom are christian or non-religious) to claim the city. whats more important is that palestinians historically lived in the city before 1967 and it was the most prominent city in the region. palestinians have a right to claim the city as part of their right of return to palestine, which is completely secular. the day after trump announced the embassy was going to move i saw a post from an arab lebanese woman saying that muslims needed to stop claiming jerusalem as a muslim city rather than a palestinian one. which i thought was interesting

 

[88m3]

 

[DoubleClutch]

the al-aqsa mosque has been historically important throughout muslim history as a significant religious site that caliphs prayed at. theres real historic evidence for that too.
mecca and medina are definitely more historic cities in islam than jerusalem and making a pilgrimage to jerusalem isnt a pillar of the religion. but historically devoted muslims did make pilgrimages to al-aqsa and other sites in jerusalem. it is very significant for reasons unrelated to its significance in jerusalem.
as for the last point about jewish israeli significance, the muslim significance of jerusalem isnt as important a reason for palestinians (many of whom are christian or non-religious) to claim the city. whats more important is that palestinians historically lived in the city before 1967 and it was the most prominent city in the region. palestinians have a right to claim the city as part of their right of return to palestine, which is completely secular. the day after trump announced the embassy was going to move i saw a post from an arab lebanese woman saying that muslims needed to stop claiming jerusalem as a muslim city rather than a palestinian one. which i thought was interesting

So who was living there before Palestinians?

Actually i probably need to do some

research on Palestinian history and the topic before I answer you back

And yes claiming Jerusalem as a Muslim city is like Jordan wearing a Kobe jersey and claiming to be the GOAT.

 

[19-]

So who was living there before Palestinians?

Actually i probably need to do some

research on Palestinian history and the topic before I answer you back

to answer this with the rulers (jews, canaanites, syriacs, early arab forces were all there. this list has their rulers. the ethnic identity of palestinians is similar to modern jews due to historical breeding between historical inhabitants of palestine, including jews.)

yeah theres a lot of good writing on the issue of palestine, jewish history in palestine, the role of jerusalem in palestinian, muslim and jewish identity. theres good stuff in that shlomo sand book, edward said, ilan pappe, norm finkelstein got great writing on it and thats just scratching the surface.

 

[DoubleClutch]

I guess the point isn’t really who the Palestinian people were since they’re so close to Jews ethnically being from the same region but what were they before Islam spread there and they became the modern day Arab Muslims.

As for the people living in Palestine native to the area back during Jesus time if they weren’t Jewish by religion and culture or Christian/Jews what did they believe? What was their culture that set them apart?
What is their history apart from the Hebrew/Jewish people they lived so close to?

What are the Palestinian people if not those who aren’t Jews/Christians who became Muslim?