So you still got guys who think Kyrie better than Wall????

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Exactly. Which proves my point that you have to have a good enough team around you in order for being a closer to often shine through.

What is the problem here?

You have to have a good enough team around you to win full stop. Wall was in the lottery in his early-20s just like Kyrie was because his team was trash.

 

[NYC Rebel]

You have to have a good enough team around you to win full stop. Wall was in the lottery in his early-20s just like Kyrie was because his team was trash.

That changes my point??

 

[xXOGLEGENDXx]

Did anybody pay attention to the stat they put up last night?

Wall has 30 double doubles
Kyrie only has 8


Not saying that automatically makes Wall better, but damn Kyrie

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

That changes my point??

Of course it does. Because not only are you reducing Irving's game to simply being a closer, but you referenced his inability to carry those Cavs squads to the playoffs as backing for your argument when that assist and defense man was in the lottery too.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Did anybody pay attention to the state they put up last night

Wall has 30 double doubles
Kyrie on had 8


Not saying that automatically makes Wall better, but damn Kyrie

All the more reason why arbitrary box score measurements are near meaningless. The sooner we all stop using them the better (that includes me).

 

[NYC Rebel]

Of course it does. Because not only are you reducing Irving's game to simply being a closer, but you referenced his inability to carry those Cavs squads to the playoffs as backing for your argument when that assist and defense man was in the lottery too.

His inability to carry those squads is his GM fault, not Kyrie.

 

[Bledswole]

How can I predict what would happen if Kyrie were on the Wizards? He's become a much better passer this year and his game is still developing...he'll be 25 soon. Using the Cavs record without Lebron as an indictment on Kyrie is stupid because they're not supposed to play without Lebron. Their entire gameplan revolves around the best player in the league and it happens that Kyrie's skillset is perfect for that.

Why do you think Irving and Lowry keep getting selected to Team USA despite Wall being the best overall defender of the 3? Their shooting and shot creation are more valuable skills than Wall's defense.

That's because of the style of play,Team USA selections mean nothing,Kyrie was doing nothing when he was by himself,and why not use the Lebron doesn't play Cavs suck argument? Because if the Cavs were winning,yall damn sure would use it

 

[Osmosis]

And that's another thing folk have to take into account, Kyrie raises his game in the playoffs, whereas from what we've seen from Wall - he trends in the opposite direction. I don't know why it's so hard for dudes to accept that others believe Kyrie's the better player. It's a reasonable position to hold. I mean if you took a fine-toothed comb over the Cavs '16 postseason you would see that Kyrie did more bulk scoring during the most pivotal parts than LeBron did. It's highly unlikely that Wall would be able to replicate that sort of impact in a postseason environment.

In what world was Wall underwhelming in the 2015 playoffs?

 

[Bledswole]

Like I said in that other thread, YOUR REASONING is the same. It doesn't matter if Wall and Rondo are on two different levels, you're using the same logic. It's the same argument in principle, in the OP - better leader, better defender and better playmaker. This is what I'm trying to get you to see, it isn't about how many areas you're better at, it's how much impact you have. If you were to rank players by how well-rounded their games were you wouldn't get an accurate reflection of who has more impact on the game.

So Kyrie better than Wall? Yes or no

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

So Kyrie better than Wall? Yes or no

Yes.

But here's the thing, I'm not going to clown anybody that believes Wall is better, for the fact that he has been the better performer this season, the fact that he's taken his game to new heights due to being healthy, and the fact that he is essentially in the same tier as Irving or thereabouts. However, you need to come with an argument that is impartial, weighs up their impact, role and skillset accurately and is reasonable - meaning that you recognize and acknowledge the opposing side's argument to be valid too.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

In what world was Wall underwhelming in the 2015 playoffs?

I. I meant more in general, he has been an underwhelming playoff performer.
II. Wall in the 2014/15 postseason - 17.4 ppg on 39% overall shooting, 17% 3-pt shooting on 2.4 attempts, 11.9 assists and 3.9 turnovers in 39 mins. Plus he had 20 points on 33% shooting and had six turnovers in the elimination game loss against Atlanta.

I don't know about you, but that seems pretty underwhelming to me. He couldn't exactly play to his ability because of how much his game was affected by that fractured hand.

 

[Microfracture]

That's because of the style of play,Team USA selections mean nothing,Kyrie was doing nothing when he was by himself,and why not use the Lebron doesn't play Cavs suck argument? Because if the Cavs were winning,yall damn sure would use it

That argument is useless because if the Cavs were expected to play without Lebron the roster would be constructed differently. To judge Kyrie on the 6 or so games Lebron sits a year relies on a small sample size to tell the story.

 

[mastermind]

Wall is having a better season than Kyrie. To me, that is not debatable.

We have to see it over a playoff series though.

 

[Walt]

Did somebody ask what Kyrie does better than Rondo besides dribbling???????????????????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[bigillwill06]

Kyrie has a ring, a top 10 finals moment (clutch game winning 3 shot against the so called goat bball team), all-star MVP, Roy, and constantly is called the hardest player in the league to guard by defenders that actually guard point guards(Avery Bradley).... I like wall a lot but history and facts allude to kyrie being the better more memorable Plyer at this point.