Someone's GOAT (NOT MINE) got whooped in a first round series after getting gifted a top 5 player in the league

[Sccit]

That’s not what he said at all. Your reading comprehension is failing you. He said if Shaq’s getting all the buckets that Kobe gonna get jealous and fukk up the game.


The Pistons game plan was literally exploit Kobe’s ego.







LeBron literally beat that same Pistons squad with Boobie Gibson and a 31 year old injured Ilgauskas averaging 12 points.

A prime 22 year old Bron with walking bucket with Shaq is winning 6 chips in a row.

U MISSIN THE POINT

THEIR GOAL WAS TO FRUSTRATE KOBE AND MAKE SHAQ THINK HE DOIN SOMETHIN BY LETTING HIM SCORE

THEY SENT DOUBLES AND TRIPLES AT KOBE AS SOON AS HE CROSSED HALF COURT

SHAQ WAS PLAYED STRAIGHT UP

LAKERS WERENT BEATING DETROIT WITOUT KOBE .... THE FACT THAT THE ROLE PLAYERS WERE SO AWFUL MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR KOBE TO BE SUCCESFUL

THE DISASTER OF THE 2004 FINALS IS NO SECRET AND ANYONE WHO PLACES THE SOLE BLAME ON KOBE SIMPLY DOESNT KNOW BASKETBALL

 

[Sccit]

Yall nig


What argument are they even trying to make? that Shaq wasn't unstoppable pretty much on the lakers?

2004 SHAQ WAS A SHELL OF HIS FORMER SELF

THIS WASNT PRIME 2000 SHAQ

HE AVERAGED 20 PPG THAT YEAR AND STRUGGLED WIT WEIGHT AND CONDITIONING

DETROIT DIDNT FEAR HIM.. THEY PLAYED HIM STRAIGHT UP AND FOCUSED THEIR GAME PLAN ON KOBE

 

[Mister Terrific]

You doing these skewed comparison, so why not do the real one on Your Goat vs The Overrated Bum that is KD?

Ok

 

[Mister Terrific]

Sohh not the same team?

Arguably better

 

[Sccit]

If y’all MAGA Mambas don’t cut it the fukk out and stop comparing a fringe top 10-15 player to LeBron.


Kobe should be argued about with Dr. J and Durant. Not LeBron

NOBODY CARES ABOUT EFFICIENCY STATS FROM A MAN WHO REFUSES TO SHOOT FULL COURT SHOTS WITH THE CLOCK WINDING DOWN TO PROTECT HIS PERCENTAGES






















NOT EVEN BETTER THAN LARRY BIRD

 

[Sccit]

Arguably better

U WERENT THERE PART 3895377533



BEN WALLACE WAS LITERALLY THE HEART N SOUL OF DETROIT

OLD AZZ WEBBER N MCDYESS WERE BETTER?!

ROFL

STICK TO BASEBALL

 

[Mister Terrific]

LMAO SHAQ GOT 1 POINT FOR DPOY FROM SOME WEIRD GROUPIE .. LIKE DERRICK ROSE GETTIN AN MVP VOTE WHEN PLAYIN FOR KNICKS LOLLLLL

KOBE MADE ALL-DEFENSE 1ST TEAM THAT YEAR ... SHAQS AWFUL DEFENSE WAS WELL DOCUMENTED

Shaq's pick-and-roll defense is a no-go

PRO BASKETBALL: NBA FINALS NOTES

www.nwitimes.com

ONCE AGAIN.. U WERENT THERE

Once again the Pistons averaged 90 points that series. Lakers averaged 80 points a game. Blaming defense when Kobe was shooting them out of games is hilarious.


Shaq’s defensive rating

Shaq Finals Defensive Rating 2003-04 | StatMuse

Shaquille O'Neal had a defensive rating of 106.1 in the 2004 NBA Finals.

www.statmuse.com

Kobe’s defensive rating

Shaq And Kobe Drtg In 2004 NBA Finals | StatMuse

Kobe Bryant had a defensive rating of 108.5 in the 2004 NBA Finals.

www.statmuse.com

Kobe -51 +/-

Let’s repeat what Chauncey Billups said



“We know Kobe hasn’t won MVP….and you know”



I was there. High school was popping off that ass whooping

 

[Deafheaven]

2004 SHAQ WAS A SHELL OF HIS FORMER SELF

THIS WASNT PRIME 2000 SHAQ

HE AVERAGED 20 PPG THAT YEAR AND STRUGGLED WIT WEIGHT AND CONDITIONING

DETROIT DIDNT FEAR HIM.. THEY PLAYED HIM STRAIGHT UP AND FOCUSED THEIR GAME PLAN ON KOBE

I'm going to preface this with Kobe probably is my favorite player ever next to MJ, I'm just not full blown stan mode with him. I share the guys name, I love/d Kobe.

But I can't really get behind the blatant lying and weird talking points that be going on sometimes. Its 2025, we all have the internet. We all have access to stats. Some of us (I was) are old enough to have watched this series in real time.

Shaq was not a "shell" of himself. No one stays in their prime but that does not constitute a shell. He still averaged 27 points on great efficiency that series. Even if we want to run with the narrative he was washed he still was a dominant force.

Your rationale that they didn't fear him or whatever and focused on Kobe does not reflect as well as you think it does because okay, what superstar does not get gameplanned around? And they usually don't have a Shaq caliber running mate but are still able to make shyt pop.

you're trying to make it seem like Shaq wasn't still unguardable straight up at that point to try to say Kobe had no help. Which we both know is bullshyt. Kobe had a lot of good, great and a couple HOF teammates in his career. As he should, its a team game. I don't know why ya'll have to downplay everyone and everything else to prop up Kobe when his stats and legacy can do that itself without wanton stanning

 

[Sccit]

Once again the Pistons averaged 90 points that series. Lakers averaged 80 points a game. Blaming defense when Kobe was shooting them out of games is hilarious.


Shaq’s defensive rating

Shaq Finals Defensive Rating 2003-04 | StatMuse

Shaquille O'Neal had a defensive rating of 106.1 in the 2004 NBA Finals.

www.statmuse.com

Kobe’s defensive rating

Shaq And Kobe Drtg In 2004 NBA Finals | StatMuse

Kobe Bryant had a defensive rating of 108.5 in the 2004 NBA Finals.

www.statmuse.com

Kobe -51 +/-

Let’s repeat what Chauncey Billups said



“We know Kobe hasn’t won MVP….and you know”



I was there. High school was popping off that ass whooping

YUP ... THEY KNEW KOBE WAS BETTER AND WAS GOING TO GET FINALS MVP IF LAKERS WON. SO THEY PLAYED TO THAT AND SHUT HIM DOWN BY THROWING THEIR ENTIRE DEFENSE AT KOBE.

THIS SOMEHOW PROVES TO U THAT SHAQ WAS BETTER? LMFAO

U ACCEPT CHATGPT AS AN UNBIASED SOURCE, CORRECT? GO TO CHATGPT AND ASK.. "WHY DID THE LAKERS LOSE TO DETROIT IN 2004?"


YOUR NARRATIVE NOT MATCHIN HOMIE

HOW OLD ARE U? BE HONEST

 

[Sccit]

I'm going to preface this with Kobe probably is my favorite player ever next to MJ, I'm just not full blown stan mode with him. I share the guys name, I love/d Kobe.

But I can't really get behind the blatant lying and weird talking points that be going on sometimes. Its 2025, we all have the internet. We all have access to stats. Some of us (I was) are old enough to have watched this series in real time.

Shaq was not a "shell" of himself. No one stays in their prime but that does not constitute a shell. He still averaged 27 points on great efficiency that series. Even if we want to run with the narrative he was washed he still was a dominant force.

Your rationale that they didn't fear him or whatever and focused on Kobe does not reflect as well as you think it does because okay, what superstar does not get gameplanned around? And they usually don't have a Shaq caliber running mate but are still able to make shyt pop.

you're trying to make it seem like Shaq wasn't still unguardable straight up at that point to try to say Kobe had no help. Which we both know is bullshyt. Kobe had a lot of good, great and a couple HOF teammates in his career. As he should, its a team game. I don't know why ya'll have to downplay everyone and everything else to prop up Kobe when his stats and legacy can do that itself without wanton stanning

YOURE MISSING THE ENTIRE POINT

2004 SHAQ WAS FAR FROM THREEPEAT SHAQ

VERY WELL DOCUMENTED


DETROITS GAMEPLAN WAS LITERALLY TO PLAY SHAQ STRAIGHT UP AND LET HIM SCORE

THEIR FOCUS WAS TO SHUT KOBE DOWN BY DOUBLING AND TRIPLING HIM ONCE HE CROSSED HALF COURT

THAT MEANS THEY NEVER SAGGED OFF OF KOBE TO GO HELP SHAQS DEFENDER.. SO HAVING SHAQ IN THAT SERIES WASNT BENEFICIAL TO HOW KOBE WAS BEIN GUARDED LIKE UR MAKING IT SEEM

GO LOOK IT UP YOURSELF

NOBODY NEEDS TO TALK ANYONE DOWN ... SHAQ WAS AN ABSOLUTE MONSTER IN THE THREEPEAT ERA. HE WAS SIMPLY NOT MVP CALIBER SHAQ IN 2004, AND THAT WAS THE ROOT OF KOBES BEEF WIT HIM.

YOURE ACTING LIKE THIS IS YOUR FIRST TIME HEARING OF SHAQS WELL DOCUMENTED CONDITIONING STRUGGLES.

 

[Deafheaven]

YOURE MISSING THE ENTIRE POINT

2004 SHAQ WAS FAR FROM THREEPEAT SHAQ

VERY WELL DOCUMENTED


DETROITS GAMEPLAN WAS LITERALLY TO PLAY SHAQ STRAIGHT UP AND LET HIM SCORE

THEIR FOCUS WAS TO SHUT KOBE DOWN BY DOUBLING AND TRIPLING HIM ONCE HE CROSSED HALF COURT

THAT MEANS THEY NEVER SAGGED OFF OF KOBE TO GO HELP SHAQS DEFENDER.. SO HAVING SHAQ IN THAT SERIES WASNT BENEFICIAL TO HOW KOBE WAS BEIN GUARDED LIKE UR MAKING IT SEEM

GO LOOK IT UP YOURSELF

You act like All timer wings never had to deal with double teams. You think MJ ever got defended straight up with no help. why look it, I watched it real time I remember in school the lunch tables were on fire with the stan wars. But we were all like 12 and 13, ya'll nikkas are grown fukking men doing this.

just call a spade a spade. he had a bad series. and went on to win two more. Its not the end of the world. Still one of the greatest to ever play the game.

 

[Mister Terrific]

U WERENT THERE PART 3895377533



BEN WALLACE WAS LITERALLY THE HEART N SOUL OF DETROIT

OLD AZZ WEBBER N MCDYESS WERE BETTER?!

ROFL

STICK TO BASEBALL

Rip was better player than 04. So was Tayshaun who developed into an actual offensive threat. Rasheed was still an All Star and CWebb was his usual efficient mid range self.


Numbers don’t lie. They weren’t facing an overrated ball hog in 2007.

 

[Osmosis]

you didnt bring about any new arguments with this response all of Lebron's individual accolades pre-heat were due to being in a weak eastern conference where you could be ten games below .500 and still get into the playoffs . Not to mention the east coast media bias.




I'll just repeat my earlier response to you that any achievements Lebron made after his super team business are all cheap. It's easy to look good when he gamed the system with his super teams,


. You're attempting to discredit kobe's all NBA defense selections based on him being a guard? Weak. You're repeating another strawman. If LeBron was this great defender it would have reflected in the ALL nba selections, First or second team.

Strawman again I'm not arguing who is a better defender regarding Duncan or Artest. Kobe is a superior defender to Lebron nobody even argues this lmao.

Who was Lebron in competition with where he missed out on his all nba defense selection ? Based on your argument Lebron should have made it over Battier and Kirilenko That stiff competition . Imagine regarding Kirilenko and Shane Battier , Paul Milsap , and Robert Covington as gatekeepers for lebron being an All NBA defender. You worried about Kobe but Kirilenko and Battier and , Paul Milsap are who you should be worried about . Imagine a world where we cry about competition to get into the All NBA defense conversation but Paul fukking Milsap is a better defender than you



2004

Andrei Kirilenko got a nod over lebron

2005

Kirilenko again lmao.

2006

Kirilenko again


2008

Shane Battier. Lmao lebron couldnt get in over battier?

2016

Paul Milsap

Paul George ?!

2018

Robert Covington


From here on nobody would think Lebron get a defensive All NBA nod




Kobe Bryant is the superior basketball player and he would have benefitted from playing in the eastern conference as well as jumping from team to team ruining parity and doing things the easy way. You have been brainwashed by the ESPN machine . Do better. Find God.


Fred.

All of this superteam nonsense like Kobe didn't spend the first decade of his career with PRIME SHAQ while Lebron was hooping with Boobie Gibson Because playing with Kevin Love and a young Kyrie against the Warriors or with AD as an old man is equivalent to playing with prime Shaq for most of your 20s.

I'm not sure who ya'll think Kobe is, we've seen his entire career play out. We've seen him win sidekick rings, we've seen him lose in the finals with prime Shaq to a team without a superstar, we've seen him blow 3-1 leads in the first round and miss the playoffs in his prime, we've seen him be incapable of winning a single playoff series without a HOF teammate, we've seen him get packed out again and again after the age of 31 and fade into irrelevance, we've seen him win a single MVP in 20 years. He simply isn't in the conversation. Legendary player but GOAT? If any of these applied to Lebron he would be crucified


Shane Battier and Kirilenko are great wing defenders, especially Battier. Who was Kobe's comp at the guard position? Raja Bell The point is these awards are narrative/reputation based and Kobe's reputation as a defender exceeded his actual impact.

I'll reiterate: Kobe was a good defender at the guard position but not an all-time great defender. Especially when compared to elite defenders like Duncan, Olajuwon, Garnett, or Lebron whose prime defensive metrics are through the roof, yet most have fewer All-defensive selections. Lebron has quadruple the amount of top 4 DPOY finishes than Kobe which is a better illustration of their defensive standing in the league.

 

[Sccit]

You act like All timer wings never had to deal with double teams. You think MJ ever got defended straight up with no help

just call a spade a spade. he had a bad series. and went on to win two more. Its not the end of the world.

AGAIN THATS NOT AT ALL WHAT IM SAYIN



MY POINT IS THAT THE ENTIRE DEFENSIVE SCHEME BY DETROIT WAS PREDICATED ON STOPPING KOBE WHILE LETTING SHAQ SCORE

WHY CANT U JUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT?

 

[Sccit]

All of this superteam nonsense like Kobe didn't spend the first decade of his career with PRIME SHAQ while Lebron was hooping with Boobie Gibson Because playing with Kevin Love and a young Kyrie against the Warriors or with AD as an old man is equivalent to playing with prime Shaq for most of your 20s.

I'm not sure who ya'll think Kobe is, we've seen his entire career play out. We've seen him win sidekick rings, we've seen him lose in the finals with prime Shaq to a team without a superstar, we've seen him blow 3-1 leads in the first round and miss the playoffs in his prime, we've seen him be incapable of winning a single playoff series without a HOF teammate, we've seen him get packed out again and again after the age of 31 and fade into irrelevance, we've seen him win a single MVP in 20 years. He simply isn't in the conversation. Legendary player but GOAT? If any of these applied to Lebron he would be crucified


Shane Battier and Kirilenko are great wing defenders, especially Battier. Who was Kobe's comp at the guard position? Raja Bell The point is these awards are narrative/reputation based and Kobe's reputation as a defender exceeded his actual impact.

I'll reiterate: Kobe was a good defender at the guard position but not an all-time great defender. Especially when compared to elite defenders like Duncan, Olajuwon, Garnett, or Lebron whose prime defensive metrics are through the roof, yet most have fewer All-defensive selections. Lebron has quadruple the amount of top 4 DPOY finishes than Kobe which is a better illustration of their defensive standing in the league.

TRYING WAYYYY TOO HARD