But thats what spoiled people do
. Nobody complains more than an entitled child. If you dont train that out of them there is no stopping it.
Spin: Why doesn't society ask young men why they've checked out?
- Thread starter Neuromancer
- Start date
. Nobody complains more than an entitled child. If you dont train that out of them there is no stopping it.
IsThatBrothaMouzone?
Veteran
Young Black men are dealing with different issues than white boys.
Look no further than the criminal justice system. Our young men get overpoliced and caught up in bullshyt before they even have a chance to mature.....often on petty crime shyt.
This has been going on since Jim Crow. Most brehs navigate their way around structural disadvantages because we've always had to.
The ones "checking out" would have checked out 60 years ago. They would have checked out during the crack-era. That's always been the case in America.
What's new is white boys checking out. That coincides with gender equality. Black men still have disadvantages even in a system that favors men. White boys are only NOW struggling because the playing field is more level.
Anyone disagreeing with you has an actual factual understanding of the institutional history of misandry on multiple continents; you absolute idiot.
Privilege isn't a blanket that can be thrown over an entire demographic without nuance and black men are impacted by the same messaging that feminists apply to men globally; get your head out of the sand.
And out in my world I see black men having these conversations and relating to white men, asian men, etc; discussing the historical and present hurdles black men face, necessitates a comprehensive look at the *male* component.
Your words are as much of a victims mentality as anyone's.
Like you're an actual idiot buddy, just had to repeat that twice; and white male grievances also don't equate to right-wing grievances, plenty of left leaning men are similarly disaffected and that's *bad.*
__________
Honestly your posts are so shallow and without substance that there's really nothing for me to refute.
Even though there's things that could be said and sourced over.....say.....the anti-male bias in practicing psychiatry in lieu of the efforts to correct it's misogynistic and male dominant roots, enmeshed with the current political moment.
Whether that's the APA or bodies in Canada and the U.K that unlike their American cousin, have done a bit more to fix their wrongs.
Or the everyday messaging and journalism/actions of actual left-leaning and feminist institutions, that comprehensively includes *all men* and are in actuality flawed and malicious, that contributes towards disaffection from the left.
A specific gross event, three years past that still resonates (involving the malicious acts of those in the IPV industry in concert with unethical journalists and aided by confidently ignorant leftists/liberal individuals and institutions, comfortable in their assumptions about male existence and their ideological orthodox) comes to mind.
So I'll just attach this post, that deals with only a single aspect of something that effect men and boys of all races.
Well.
Black boys have the youngest sexual debut of any race in America and our primary abusers are older women and girls, but try and inform people of that and all you get is adherence to orthodoxy in response to credible stats, researchers, and sound reasoning.
He Didn't Want Any of That: Considerations in the Study and Theorization of Black Boys' Sexual Victimization in the United States
Child sexual abuse is an under-researched area of public health scholarship and family conflict studies.www.academia.edu
Abuse isn't a game of one-upmanship across identities but the truth is that feminists frequently make broad statements about male sexual and physical victimhood without anything empirical backing.
No credible researcher into female sexual predators would agree enough research has been done to make the sort of broad statements about female pedophilia that you'll see.
Instead they'd detail the road blocks such research faces.
I.e Michelle Elliot of Kidscape, a former chair of the World Health Organization and a deeply credible woman, victim advocate, and non-"MRA" strawman.
She's been awarded by the Queen and written one of if not the seminal book on female sexual abuse of children; and her biggest opps were other feminists.
This isn't a new issue with black boys and men of men of any race, or women for that matter.
Just try bringing up the greater access Catholic nuns have to children and the litany of credible accusations of sexual abuse they've faced this past century, as if nuns aren't already culturally understood to (in part) he ruler welding warriors when it comes to trauma infliction.
Watch people downplay the efforts of survivors to get an inch of recognition nd the low/near null prosecution rates relative to the proven/credible accusations and what can be extrapolated from that.
Victims of Catholic nuns rely on each other after being overlooked in the clergy sex abuse crisis
The sexual abuse of children by Catholic sisters and nuns has been overshadowed by far more common reports of male clergy abuse.apnews.com
When I looked into the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in Canada on abuse in indigenous residential schools it was far from uncommon to see a single nun or multiple nuns with no priest involved in the molestation/rape of a child.
There are also a lot of myths about female sex offending that are still perpatrated; like women mostly offending as a lesser accomplice to a man rather than as primary actors.
That and more is cited here.
I don't know.
My reputation here speaks for itself on how much my takes and insistence at arguing with what I saw as misogyny, anti-white racism, anti-lgbt sentiments, or whatever else drove my participation and inspired dislike.
For whoever remembers my posting at all, that said, even way back when my views on male suffering/female abusers was never lockstep with the worst strawman of "woke feminist" thought so nothing I'm saying ATM is a pivot in thought application or fundemental beliefs.
I'm only saying the above to emphasize how that when in these progressive spaces or talking with feminists, no one has any charity offered to them if you in any way poke at their accepted truths, your past and present doesn't matter.
You're instantly cast as an uneducated or indoctrinated/at risk of falling down the "alt-right" pipeline man or pick-me, who's only agenda is to distract from female suffering rather than correct the claims that tacticly erase and cut off research into the abuse of boys, because it's inherent to them that boys don't suffer at a meaningful rate from anyone other than other men.
And I'm someone who spent my formative Internet years doing the exact opposite of what they claim I am, for people that have never sought as much perspective on the male experience as I have towards them (and that's in spite of the far more patriarchal/abusive women that raised and toxic peers that were around me) who basically just walk with the presumption of empathy.
It's all very doomer.
But everyone here should follow DrTJC as he's the premier researcher into this subject.
And I had an aside to my earlier post in this thread, that sadly was the last on a page as it should have gotten more attention than your absolute ass rambling, that briefly brought in specific issues in Australia; but I found it too off course and deleted it, so here it is now, below a link to what I did post.
Post in thread 'Spin: Why doesn't society ask young men why they've checked out?' https://www.thecoli.com/threads/spi...-why-theyve-checked-out.1086154/post-55866407
"Feminists of any sex are married to "their truth," at the expense of empiricism, yet they'll be beholden to statistics or arrests and domestic abuse whilst their lionizing of the female gender leads them to deny the very real historical, institutional barriers that have impeded the study of and logging of crimes against men and boys and or literally prevented women from being charged for such crimes.
We can talk about how it wasn't until the 2000s that marital rape was outlawed (which keep in mind, would also mean men couldn't suffer marital raped) but I can't note the decades in various countries where women couldn't even commit sex crimes against children by the letter of the law?
How 3 Judges in 2024 Used Old Homophobic Laws To Make Female Paedophilia Prior to 1984 Legal
In NSW Australia.
nita123.substack.com
Australia being a country mired with issues around gendered abuse, claims of femicide, allotment of resources to men and boys/the (I believe recently fixed) issue of crimes against them being classed in stats as crimes against women."
Which is only the surface of this issue that plagues support services and still impacts the legal systems in various nations, in ways that aren't simply "women getting equality and white men throwing a hissy fit," especially when those laws would still impact black men and men of other non-white races.
Thinking of a specific insane and challenged, recent, Canadian ruling that intrudes on the due process of any man accused of sexual violence- due to a case that involved an Indian man (a creep) and women that conspired against him, lying in the process.
The Ghomeshi rules: Bill C-51 creates unprecedented case of reverse disclosure
Earlier this month, Justice Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould introduced legislation to modernize the Criminal Code. The new legislation, Bill C-51, would repeal sections of the Criminal Code that have been found unconstitutional, remove outdated offences and bring written sexual assault law up to...
www.canadianlawyermag.com
‘Ghomeshi Rules’ Declared Constitutional by the Supreme Court of Canada
The controversial new legislation for admissibility of private records in possession of the accused has been declared constitutional.
www.thelighthouseproject.ca
(Ghomeshi was a creep by the way; not a defense of him)
That person is brainwashed or high on his sense of positive masculinity or general sense of self and knowledge, which I've noticed it can make some men blind to what men face in society.
It just conflicts with his blackness so he can't comprehensively reckon with the issues black men face.
Which our maleness is foundational to and not just due to black men's existence being offensive to/a threat to while male patriarchy.
Hoshi_Toshi
Superstar
There is the problem, once it spread to white america it got everyone’s undivided attention. But our struggles aren’t the same.
NOW it’s a problem and we need to figure out why young men are doing x,y,z.
White people need to start by figuring out why young white men make up majority of mass shooters and domestic violence/ mass family murders.
As the saying goes, when you’re so used to inequality in your favor, equality feels like unfair punishment.
General Mills
More often than not I tend to take that L.
Yup. My sentiments exactlyThey don't ask because they don't care. Everyone just wants to talk at young men instead of listening. Even if you share your experiences, your experiences are dismissed...."that doesn't happen"Ok back to the video games, don't be mad when some of them snap and crash out.
"When you're used to oppression, equality feels like a punished," has a bit of truth, but mainly it's used by white feminists/feminists who erase half of the population from the equation of socialization and have the most basic, unidirectional understanding of power imaginable.
This was my response to a question posed elsewhere about the term "not all men, but always a man," something I see in a lot of places and supported by mainstream figures/beliefs.
It re-links some of what I've I linked in this thread already, sorry about that.
And what should be clear from my sourcing is that black male existence pokes holes in assumptive truths on the left, empirically; what we deal with in many ways (not entirely as there are unique components of anti-black male misandry) is an outsized outgrowth of the misandry that effects white men just as well.
They aren't just suffering due to their perception of the advance of minorities or strides of women and that has implications for black men in an to an extent, integrated society.
"Why am I or men as a collective to blame for the system/socialization you and other women and girls are party to yet escape all accountability for?
Aren't plenty of men left-wing as well? Women are single handedly pushing progressive politics? Why am I grouped in with whatever strawman you're battling?
Do you not see how asinine it is to put all onus on men as you are, following an election wherein a misogynist fascist was partly propelled by women?
Women aren't uniform in thoughts and actions.
Many men were raised by women who would have held a problematic belief or practice or grew up around the girls who'd go on to support Trump as an adult- whilst being progressive themselves.
They likely have memories of growing up in a morally gray reality where much and more bad behavior wasn't gender specific.
Yet the rhetoric we're met with is as if perpetration of the norms that hurt men is unidirectional and something we must shoulder in spite of any lip service of "women enforcing the patriarchy as well."
Honestly it's pretty pathetic to present as emotionally intelligent/progressive whilst engaging in tit for tat gender discourse and bootstrapping rhetoric.
All systematic analysis is out to window the moment the lens has to be turned on male existence.
Sourcing for the second time in this thread how the most credible research on the matter of male victimhood/the only replication study for it, shows women as sharing the same misconceptions about male sexuality that lead to female perpetrated assault and the downplaying of one's own behavior.
Beliefs that preempt sexual assault
Also here's a non-academic youtube video of women being incredibly rapey when prompted with a question of men refusing them sex that's in line with the research above.
"
And research on the feminine aggression underlying said assaults:
When black male and female viewpoints on gender equality are studied there's near parity in views; would it make sense for one side of the black family to get off essentially scotch free even as they raise the boys inevitably accused of being their oppressors?
Stats:
Evelyn Simien who did the 2004/2005 study being a strong and respected black feminist as well; not a nobody or person who can be strawmanned away.
I'm sourcing things relating to black men as being black myself, that's where a lot of my immediate focus lies.
Social hysteria around the black male vote arises in contrast with our shown track record and any studies; where "patriarchal realism" outstrips empiricisms.
-Here's a silly analogy I've given in the past that deals with the issue of all onus for the norms that harm men being put on men and men alone:
Take the Destiny's Child song "Soldier" in evidence; reinforcing norms of what a man is supposed to be/what women want.
Soldier is a song written by men so this isn't discounting men's place in the process or that these were words put in the girls mouths; words all about essentially desiring toxic masculinity in a human shell.
It's near useless to focus wider concepts onto individuals, but it's to show that at some point they were a cog in the process they can easily transition to the "new status quo" from, often never sharing onus in the current discourse.
So as time has gone on and the standards for masculinity shift, young boys can feel burdened by the blame of apparently being enforcers of oppression on those they grew up alongside, who may have also perpetuated the toxic standards they saw as the marker of female attraction; but often, imo- women are able to walk with a vested belief in intrinsic empathy/emotional intelligence, so they are never called upon to take themselves to task in a similar light and can more easily slide into self-serving feminist viewpoints."
Now back to this Thecoli thread.
We can discuss how studies of teen IPV consistent you find boys as reporting higher rates and of teens/college aged women reporting commiting SA at the same rates (or was it higher?) than college aged boys, of non-black populations.
Of how consistently people on the left with authority or just in common conversation go out of their way to downplay that and rationalize how actually it would be women underreporting or reporting more due to their knowledge of consent, despite men's awareness of their own abuse undeniably being lesser whilst also being told by society, that they even have the potential to rape and not be desired in sexual circumstances.
And then we could discuss how those same rationales and limiting frameworks impedes the recognition of the sexual abuse of black boys intra-communaly or the disproportionate sexual abuse of black boys by women within the juvenile justice system, or how I've seen that used to erase white women's offenses onto black male bodies young and old.
Do you not think white boys and men are impacted by the absolute nonsense people speak about their ability to suffer violence and their alleged perpetuation of it?
As a black man, I relate to the experiences of men of other races around the subject.
Research on teen dating violence linked:
Boys More Likely To Be Victims Of Teen Dating Violence Than Girls, Study Shows. Violence down overall.
https://www.studyfinds.org/boys-more-victimized-by-teen-dating-violence-than-girls-study-finds/ VANCOUVER — Who is more likely to be victimized by teen dating violence? If you’re quick to think it’s girls, new data shows you’re wrong. In a surprising twist, recently published research indicates...
www.resetera.com
"Researchers looked at data collected from three British Columbia Adolescent Health Surveys conducted over a 10-year timespan. Participants were 35,900 students in grades 7 through 12 who were in dating relationships. This is the first North American study to compare statistics for boys and girls and the first Canadian study to consider teen dating violence over the course of a decade."
Very decent sample size/methodology.
Sending it through this forum so people can read how some progressives work to find ways to invalidate any such findings.
"In one study, college women and men reported similar rates (approximately 67%) of experiencing “unwanted” sexual intercourse through four of five strategies (e.g., verbal pressure, sexual stimulation, forced seduction, and intoxication)."
Men's Reactions to Female Sexual Coercion
Men's Reactions to Female Sexual Coercion
"35 years ago, researchers reported that 16% of a sample of college men had been forced to have sex on a date. 6 years later, they found that that number rose to 30%. 10 years later, the same survey showed that 43% men reported having had coercive sexual experiences with women since the age of 16."
IsThatBrothaMouzone?
Veteran
Commander Waterford
The Handmaid's Tale?
Is this your superficially, liberal feminist politics speaking?
People like you will keep this country in a fascist death spiral.
LiveFromLondon
Superstar
in essence, young nikkas haven't checked out, they just have other things to get in to.
IsThatBrothaMouzone?
Veteran
You see it too.
This board has been infiltrated by MAGATS that want us to ignore racism and classism in favor of the gender divide.
They can't win with just white men.
Ong im so glad that my beliefs were always rooted in critical thoughts and a well founded sense of self because you'd think with how I started on this site I'd be as obnoxious and head in the sand as you fukks.
You're basically just encouraging the bizzaro of male "stoicism" and emotional repression; it's disgusting.
Dwayne_Taylor
Superstar
A lot of the things “they” complain about: like loss of manufacturing jobs, outsourcing of blue and white-collar work, toxic feminism, and misandry in education; these issues hit Black men just as hard, if not harder.
We’re also competing with undocumented workers and visa holders in the job market. DEI also favors women over us.
We also sit through lectures blaming “men” for everything. And If you think they're only talking about white men, you’re retarded to the 4th power.
Anyone telling Black men to ignore these issues because “white men complain too” isn’t looking out for us. They're trying to silence you with militant virtue signaling.
We’re also competing with undocumented workers and visa holders in the job market. DEI also favors women over us.
We also sit through lectures blaming “men” for everything. And If you think they're only talking about white men, you’re retarded to the 4th power.
Anyone telling Black men to ignore these issues because “white men complain too” isn’t looking out for us. They're trying to silence you with militant virtue signaling.
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Like, the left wing men's issues spaces I interact in, I'm vehement with how much I believe in not equivocating with the right and voting blue, how they need to not group black men in as a defacto "protected class" from feminists/politicians that deserve critique, and whatever else.
But when the opposite end is just "stfu," it can make the rebuttals seem like you're just trying to contribute to that divide as the response needs to be strong.
Or maybe that's just people being uncharitable, either way; it's irritating.