Study: Men Overestimate Female Attraction to Them and Women Underestimate Male Attraction To Them

[Prodyson]

Somebody lying. The popular male internet narrative is that women have an overinflated sense of attractiveness which is why they won’t choose up on the men on their levels.

But several studies actually say the exact opposite.
I dunno. I’m on the fence with this one. I’ve definitely seen these dynamics at work irl, but I know shy dudes and aggressive chicks too.

Then again, I just read a thread on unsolicited dikk pics

Regardless, differences between men and women became negligible when accounting for individual desires for casual sex or tendency to project their attraction onto others. It just so happens that men were found to be more likely to do this than women.

Sooo which is it?

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Ehh... I have questions about the method they used to conduct this study. The first red flag is speed dating. Most men willing to subject themselves to speed dating are likely going to be relatively confident people and probably not indicative of the population at-large. Kind of like how only relatively attractive men or delusional men participate in male auctions.

That’s about as random as going to a school that is 80 percent male, “randomly” selecting students, and then claiming that most people who go to schools are males based on the selection results.

 

[MajesticLion]

Men set the world up for themselves
That built-in selfishness has consequences
With that said, if the continuation of the species depended on women being honest/speaking up/shooting their shot
Honestly follow that line of logic to it's natural conclusion












Honestly

 

[⠝⠕⠏⠑]

Oh ok

So the reason there was a major shift in dating in the 2010’s and now 2020’s is because of rights women were given in the 1960’s?

And women’s dating attitudes changed because they no longer need a man to take care of them even though they hate the idea of spending their own money especially when they have a man in their lives. There are actual studies that show a lot of women, including career women who make good money resent their man if he doesn’t make enough to allow her to retire. But women are exercising their ability to take care of themselves financially without the need of a man to do so.

Yea makes perfect sense

Didn’t even get into the fact that even before women had rights, the only males that had any real privilege were white men.

These changes didn’t happen all at once. They came in stages and have gotten progressively worse over time. Where do you think all that “I don’t need no man” “I can do bad all by myself” rhetoric of the 90s came from.

60s-80s shyt was just starting and old ways were becoming abandoned. Couple this with the drug war, economic downturn and you get an even starker picture of women doing shyt on their on. Somewhere between 80s-90s, women started being resentful at men for their perceived slights against women and were trying to change men. This is the “women can have it all” era. When faced with the reality which is society changed, but male expectations stayed the same, some women became embittered. (Female incelism actually pre-dates male incelism) This is the 90s Oprah era, “these men ain’t shyt, deadbeat dads, crying on tv” stage.

By the end of the 90s-2000s, a lotta of women left the idea of getting with guys and changing men altogether. Especially with male unemployment rates. Instead women started talking more and more about independent women. Make her own money. Buy her own car. Having her own doesn’t mean she doesn’t still want your money however. Having a bottle of wine doesn’t mean I won’t drink your wine. It just means she’ll be okay (not as okay as she wants) even if she doesn’t get it.

From 2010s and forward, women drove that shyt into high gear. Marrying dogs, divorcing when they 80, delaying marriage until they got gray p*ssy hair, having kids whether they got husbands or not, shamelessly making dikk appointments, getting fukked by strippers the day before they get married, crying about cheating on husbands even while they cheating themselves. Wilding out!

Now, they don’t even wanna be bothered until they are in their 40s unless it’s with an amazing guy or sometimes not at all.
The idea is that women will pursue education, get careers that afford them the lifestyle they want, marry men with similar or better qualifications, so she can stay at home with the kids in her mansion for a minute, but hire a maid to cook/clean/burp the baby. Then go back to work on a career she enjoys, make more money, get her husbands money, retire early. And if he fukks up, she divorces and tries to get more money in addition to what she got. But if she can’t get that pipe dream, she’ll just work on her own, travel, get a pet, raise her child, make dikk appointments and then chill. Because they value that option more than being stressed with marriage and kids to a dude she not feeling who ain’t making bank.

I’m not saying any of this is right or wrong. I’m just saying that’s what I see. Many women have and are gradually withdrawing from the game altogether.
I mean think about this.

Why single women are buying more homes than single men
Did you know female single homeownership is now outpacing single male homeownership. Women giving themselves all the things women in former generations had to get through men. They might hold out for a perfect rich guy sweeping them off their feet, but they not settling on an average guy unless it’s absolutely necessary and even then females initiate divorce 70%.

All of this is far more important that simping. Not to mention, a lot of chicks were raised without fathers, which COMPOUNDS their perception of men as either being unnecessary at best or even detrimental at worst if they grew up around men who abused them or their mothers or molested them or abandoned them.

I dunno what’s going to reverse these trends other than an alien invasion. But men not simping isn’t going to have the effect you want it to have. You can’t ignore somebody who ain’t bothered by you. I feel like you trying to threaten chicks with a good time. Only men they want can play those games.

For what it’s worth, I think men and women are high key idiots for thinking this way. But both are stubborn and set in their ways. So we might as well be entertained by the shytshow, nibble on an edible and watch the fireworks. It’s only gonna get worse.

 

[JQ Legend]

I think when a woman likes a man her signals are VERY obvious. People don’t realize how thirsty women are when they really feeling a dude. Sometimes I’ll hear guys ask stuff like why don’t women approach more, or buy men stuff....and I think...they do. When they like a guy.I’m sure some Coli guys can attest to this.

But in a lot of cases it ain’t that women are bad at communicating interest. It’s that they don’t want most dudes and some have a hard time accepting that. Too many men are conditioned to liking the chase. They waste their lives on chicks who are obviously lukewarm to them at best, irritated by them at worst.

I do think there are women who suck at communication. Hilariously so. Like crazy bad.Awful. Like bytch use your words. Like spend more time crying over a situation than trying to resolve it and expecting people to listen to that shyt bad. Like emo manipulation IS their love language bad.

But there are far too many men who’d rather believe what they want instead of accepting what’s in front of them. That’s what these studies have demonstrated.

In one study that gave men and women pictures of dating scenarios. Do you know women scored a much higher score than men did on reading what was going on in the scenarios and signs of discomfort? Men tended to interpret attraction far more often AND they did this for attractive women even more. I think men try to superimpose their desires onto reality. Sometimes it works. But a lot of times it ain’t what you think.

When is the last time you approached a man you were attracted to?

You have a thread full of dudes telling you about how women are so subtle with their “hints” that it comes off the same way as it does when she’s just being friendly. All of us can count on one hand all the times we’ve seen a woman approach a dude and still have damn near 5 fingers left.

How do women make it “obvious” when they like a guy?

 

[JQ Legend]

Lol! I don’t think it’s due to them having issues with communicating. It’s because they not doing that for most men anyway.
The men on the receiving end of female thirst have zero problems knowing who wants them. Because the chick is always calling them, texting RIGHT back, sending a billion texts to dudes writing one word responses, literally trying to push for relationships, buying them presents, some are leaving kids and inconveniencing themselves for these guys. Doing any and everything to impress the guy. Moving across the country for their boos. Buying him food, shoes, coming off bread.

The issue is most women ain’t doing even a fraction of that for most men. Because they just not with it unless they are.

Some chicks try to play it cool but ain’t no chill when a chick REALLY likes a dude.

We’re discussing men a woman doesn’t know though. When a woman sees a total stranger in public she’s attracted to, how does she go about making it “obvious”?

 

[⠝⠕⠏⠑]

Men set the world up for themselves
That built-in selfishness has consequences
With that said, if the continuation of the species depended on women being honest/speaking up/shooting their shot
Honestly follow that line of logic to it's natural conclusion












Honestly

I think a lot is going to have to change to get chicks comfortable enough to go there. One major issue I see are women valuing two seemingly irreconcilable desires. The desire for autonomy vs. being cared for. In a perfect world, a woman should be able to make money, find a perfectly secure guy to make money with her, who isn’t threatened by her success or disgruntled because her financial autonomy undermines his ability to run the household/cheat ect. Being autonomous shouldn’t result in men feeling resentful or being unwilling to care for a chick. But sometimes it does. They call my doc program the marriage killer. A chick can be mousy as hell. Respectful. Submissive. Supportive. Thinking because she was all these things for her husband that he would turn around and do that on her path as well.
Wrong. I’ve seen chicks presenting cutting edge research getting interrupted by phone calls from embittered spouses mad that they gotta take care of their OWN kids for the weekend. Women thot them getting independence meant men would be more supportive and willing to share duties and power in their relationships. That hasn’t been the case.
It don’t work like that for some dudes so they giving up.

So until a more equitable and profitable balance can be struck for women, they aren’t going to take on even MORE of a role in courtship to approach men when they already perceive themselves as doing everything or more than men anyway in relationships.

The other part of this is elimination of whore/virgin complex a lot of men have AND their obsession with the chase. The first issue is that a lot of men already look down on women if they don’t ascribe you traditional gender roles and then disrespect them as inferiors when they do. Frequently say they don’t even want to be friends with them or primarily only want sex. So a lot of dudes already have a natural arrogance and dislike of females. Women who pursue men might make casual sexual encounters easier for men. But most dudes ain’t checking for chicks chasing after them. They’ll smash. Use them for cars and food. Then literally go chase, pursue, marry, simp, who they want. Women see this and that’s a big part why they won’t put themselves out there unless they really like the guy. Then considering she not sweating sex like that anyway and a large portion of chicks report not even orgasming from sex with males, it’s gonna be less likely for women to take on that kinda risk for very little potential reward. Then there’s still elements of slut shaming, and the added responsibility of pregnancy and stds for a brief sexual encounter for a guy who may only see you as a nut. And as I mentioned before, many been raised without dads so some don’t even see the value in them unless he can financially upgrade their lives. Otherwise some see them as burdens, potential abusers, irritants or people they gon have to cook and clean up behind.

I do think women should be more assertive/less passive victims and men should be less arrogant/sex obsessed and inconsistent, but I’m not sure men NOR women are ready for that quite yet. And without outside forces facilitating that process (I.e. economic hardship, state of emergency) I’m not sure if we are mature enough to evaluate the pros and cons of relationships for each other then work towards more beneficial unions for everybody.

 

[sosayeth]

We’re discussing men a woman doesn’t know though. When a woman sees a total stranger in public she’s attracted to, how does she go about making it “obvious”?

I haven't read through the thread, so I'm not making the connection to the original post this particular topic is about, but my best friend was the top RB in the state and was being recruited by Les Miles, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer. On top of that, he was a very attractive guy - and I say that not from my perspective, but because all women made it plain as daylight they wanted his attention. From the baddest of chicks to the shyest and most reserved. Wasn't no "blink my eyes twice and tilt my head 67.5°" shyt. I've witnessed all types of what would be considered invasion of personal space, harassment, catcalling, you fukking name it, from women.

When @Booksnrain said...

It’s because they not doing that for most men anyway.
The men on the receiving end of female thirst have zero problems knowing who wants them.

She was right. But, women's problem is the modern society they love so much will not function for very much longer if we continue along this path where they believe they're "settling" because they're not getting the interest of or marrying the absolute highest upper echelon of physical, financial AND social peak of men. Frankly, if a (never married, childless) woman is doing anything less than "sexually harassing" you when you first interact with her, you're not gonna ever be anything more than a placeholder to her while she builds up resentment towards you, because she feels like you're the reason why Michael B. Jordan or whomever hasn't knocked down her door yet.

 

[JQ Legend]

I haven't read through the thread, so I'm not making the connection to the original post this particular topic is about, but my best friend was the top RB in the state and was being recruited by Les Miles, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer. On top of that, he was a very attractive guy - and I say that not from my perspective, but because all women made it plain as daylight they wanted his attention. From the baddest of chicks to the shyest and most reserved. Wasn't no "blink my eyes twice and tilt my head 67.5°" shyt. I've witnessed all types of what would be considered invasion of personal space, harassment, catcalling, you fukking name it, from women.

When @Booksnrain said...


She was right. But, women's problem is the modern society they love so much will not function for very much longer if we continue along this path where they believe they're "settling" because they're not getting the interest of or marrying the absolute highest upper echelon of physical, financial AND social peak of men. Frankly, if a (never married, childless) woman is doing anything less than "sexually harassing" you when you first interact with her, you're not gonna ever be anything more than a placeholder to her while she builds resentment, because she feels like you're the reason why Michael B. Jordan or whomever hasn't knocked down her door yet.

I don’t disagree women approach men but you used a dude who is likely going to be rich as your example

I’m tombout the regular everyday breh a woman finds attractive. Not groupie behavior. How often do you see women approach men in public?

 

[⠝⠕⠏⠑]

When is the last time you approached a man you were attracted to?

You have a thread full of dudes telling you about how women are so subtle with their “hints” that it comes off the same way as it does when she’s just being friendly. All of us can count on one hand all the times we’ve seen a woman approach a dude and still have damn near 5 fingers left.

How do women make it “obvious” when they like a guy?

We’re discussing men a woman doesn’t know though. When a woman sees a total stranger in public she’s attracted to, how does she go about making it “obvious”?

Hmmm I dunno. I think it differs in environments. Personally I don’t approach guys in general. I barely even notice them when I go out. When I see a fine one, I’ll acknowledge that he’s attractive and move on. Because I’m not pressed.

But when I do like LIKE a guy, I smile, approach him, strike up a conversation, make him laugh. Touch him. Find reasons to keep the conversation going. Lots and lots of sweetness and agreeableness. Courtship is reciprocal because he’s worth it. I listen to him. Try to sooth him. Do his laundry. Appreciate his small gifts. Give gifts to him. Be grateful for his company and make myself available. Text back quickly. Ask questions about his day because I’m actually interested. More touching. Direct eye contact. Smiling. Compliment him and his appearance. Never arguing. Very agreeable. Ask if he wants to hang out.

But it’s rare that I’m single in a position to do this because I meet guys randomly. One guy I used to date, I met while paying a bill. Had to dump the contents of my purse on a table to find my credit card. My Nintendo DS fell out. He asked me if that belonged to my kids. I laughed and said no. Then he slipped me his digits. Random.

 

[Still Benefited]

I agree with most of your post but not he first two sentences

women can be absolutely horrible at communicating desire, even in their committed relationships. The fact people don’t realize how thirsty women can be as you say is because many women aren’t good At communicating

I agree,after a while you realize women liking you can be a woman acting shy/rude because she is nervous around you. Or just a woman acting weird,you might notice a camera flash go off and swear she took a picture of you while you weren't looking? Weird shyt like that. Or just always being in orbit but still ignoring the shyt out of you. Experience tells men everything from indifference to thirst,can mean everything or absolutely nothing. So of course men would overestimate womens attraction. The last woman who ignored me and acted this weird,later confessed she had a crush on me for years. But for the next woman it could literally mean she finds you creepy.

Big girls are the only group of women who I consistently see who are good at communicating and aggressive/willing to act openly thirsty. I've had white girls be pretty aggressive,but I don't hang out around them enough to say thats a consistent thing. But damn near every place I've worked,and many many clubs I've gon too,its always been a big girl ready to flirt or flat out sexually harrass. They can talk that shyt witht the best of em

But unnatractive big girls,or ugly women are more likely to have a level of protection to do this. Why? because honestly other women aren't jealous of big girls or ugly women typically. A pretty ass chick going around play flirting with people is going to have women hating hard. As well as having men falling for her and catching feelings. So I do agree that there is a reason some women have to be more careful about flirting than others. I don't think it goes to the extent of women thinking they could get murdered. I really just think its a bad look and going to bring hate from women.And going to bring more annoyance from men they don't really want to be bothered with.

 

[sosayeth]

I don’t disagree women approach men but you used a dude who is likely going to be rich as your example

I’m tombout the regular everyday breh a woman finds attractive. Not groupie behavior. How often do you see women approach men in public?

Like I said, I'm not aware how this particular topic came about, so my jumping in may be causing confusion, but I agree with you that women very rarely approach men in public. I was only adding on to @Booksnrain's post and explaining why that is - because women are very, very rarely truly attracted to a guy. As men, you and I often see women every day who are cute in passing, but you've forgotten about her ten minutes later. I would venture to guess that this same situation for women, per below...

When I see a fine one, I’ll acknowledge that he’s attractive and move on. Because I’m not pressed.

...happens infrequently for them. Once a week? I wouldn't even be surprised if @Booksnrain said it's once a month for her.

On the other hand...

But when I do like LIKE a guy

She's just no effectively communicating what she intends, but I get what she means, because I have witnessed it over and over. Again, as a man, especially if you live near an urban city center, how often do you run across a woman who you feel, "Jesus Christ, I would parachute onto the sands of Normandy in the middle of June 1944 to have a woman who looks that good"... Multiple times a month, right? It wouldn't surprise me at all if that same sentiment from a woman to man was something that maybe happens once a year.

 

[KidJSoul]

Nah. There’s literally videos of women being followed by dudes on the street. I’ve been stalked myself. The first time I got an apartment on my own, dudes were watching me move in the entire day from their steps.

And some would always be outside every time I came in. Saying suggestive shyt.

It’s the south so I was raised to be friendly. But sometimes that just gets interpreted as permission. Meanwhile when I obviously said no, afterwards I had an attempt to kick my door in.
Tires flattened. All kinds of shyt until I had a guy come stay with me. When I moved out again on my own, I got a 12 gauge, a Rottweiler and a door stopper. Felt much better.

I don’t think men will ever be able to truly understand this dynamic. It’s a different type of vulnerability and because some men overestimate their attractiveness to women AND overestimate female attraction to them, they often bypass female’s signs of discomfort or don’t care at all. Sure most violence happens with people u know due to proximity but that doesn’t eliminate the threat outside of intimate relationships.

That having been said, most experiences I’ve had have been positive with guys.But there’s always one with that “too far” energy and so women do a lot to avoid those slip ups. So their doors ain’t getting kicked in middle of the night even when they graciously refused a dude’s attempts to smash.

Thanks for sharing this, its important to know

 

[Gunz&Butta]

Men set the world up for themselves
That built-in selfishness has consequences
With that said, if the continuation of the species depended on women being honest/speaking up/shooting their shot
Honestly follow that line of logic to it's natural conclusion












Honestly

We keep the species going.

 

[JQ Legend]

Like I said, I'm not aware how this particular topic came about, so my jumping in may be causing confusion, but I agree with you that women very rarely approach men in public. I was only adding on to @Booksnrain's post and explaining why that is - because women are very, very rarely truly attracted to a guy. As men, you and I often see women every day who are cute in passing, but you've forgotten about her ten minutes later. I would venture to guess that this same situation for women, per below...



...happens infrequently for them. Once a week? I wouldn't even be surprised if @Booksnrain said it's once a month for her.

On the other hand...



But, as a man, especially if you live near an urban city center, how often do you run across a woman who you feel, "Jesus Christ, I would run parachute onto the sands of Normandy in the middle of June 1944 to have a woman who looks that good"... Multiple times a month, right? It wouldn't surprise me at all if that same sentiment from a woman to man was something that maybe happens once a year.

Regardless of how often it happens, even when it does women will rarely approach that man which was my whole point.

I didn’t even get into how socially awkward women get in the presence of men they find very attractive. No different from men being intimidated by beautiful women. Women will at times straight up reject a man she was checking out with the because she think she made herself look too available/thirsty or because she assume he’s just gone break her heart among other reasons. Not online so much but in public definitely.

And this thread came about because of that last thread where we were saying women should stick to their lane or accept she won’t be anything but a smash to dudes out of her league. OP alluded to it in the first post.

 

[JQ Legend]

Ehh... I have questions about the method they used to conduct this study. The first red flag is speed dating. Most men willing to subject themselves to speed dating are likely going to be relatively confident people and probably not indicative of the population at-large. Kind of like how only relatively attractive men or delusional men participate in male auctions.

That’s about as random as going to a school that is 80 percent male, “randomly” selecting students, and then claiming that most people who go to schools are males based on the selection results.

Apparently men in a speed dating environment who had cool conversations with the women in that environment and came to the conclusion there might be a connection there is an indicator that men at large find themselves more attractive than women do.

And the women in that same speed dating environment who felt there was no connection means women at large underestimate how attractive they are