Talking police reform with a cop

[Gus Money]

It actually does work that way, but people keep denying the elephant in the room....


Race

That Somali cop from Minnesota that killed an Australian national was sentenced so fast it wasn’t even funny. And there’s another story about a black cop in the south that killed a white person on accident, recently, dude was charged the same day.....

If it only works if the cop is black then I’d say that’s not working at all.

 

[Json]

So im talking with my neighbor(who is a white cop) about police reform today and he made some good arguments... figured I'd share an interesting one.


2-3 people are killed by police everyday, every year... most of whom are white, but its not even obvious that that's a bad number considering there are 300+ million. What is the expectation? what is an acceptable number? 0-1 a day? why? based on what?
Where does the idea that all the crime in a giant ass country should result in people never being killed come from?
...he also says not resisting arrest in would likely cut the number of deaths in half, but its easier to blame the officer than it is the person creating the hostile and/or unsafe situation.

Thoughts?




Edit: He voted for Trump last election and says he is staying home this election.

Ask him why are people being killed in nonviolent arrest?

Why are they pulling guns for a ticket when it at most nets you 150 dollars?

 

[Pressure]

Y’all are so caught up on the acceptable deaths part with. That you keep forgetting the most fundamental part, a lot of black people are gunned while complying. Like literally reaching for their wallet.


There’s even several videos of this. In the past it was like here say vs an officer’s word regarding what happened, but now I can see clear cut video of the officer fukking up and shooting a black person in seconds while complying.

Exactly why it's cac babble.
The same as when they say, "mOrE wHiTeS aRe KiLlEd BY cOpS aNd We DoNt RiOt."

 

[DEAD7]

Ask him why are people being killed in nonviolent arrest?

Why are they pulling guns for a ticket when it at most nets you 150 dollars?

He believes those occurrences are few and far between and that those officers should be punished.
His main gripe is the broad brush people are using when discussing police reform.

 

[DEAD7]

let me get this straight, if i own a grocery store and only 1 - 2 employees steal from me everyday out of i don't know 100 or so employees, what's the big deal...? what's an acceptable number for theft...? ZERO...? i expect my employees not to steal from me at all, none of them, EVER.....? man, get all the way the fukk out of here with this retarded c00n babble...

i won't give a serious rebuttable because @DEAD7 is a known and proud c00n.... he would absolutely think killing black people in service to a white capitalistic system is no big deal... however, i am intrigued enough to ask this, why is this white supremacist piece of shyt cop not voting for trump this go around....?

He believes Trump is making his job more dangerous and tearing the nation apart. He refuses to vote for Biden tho

 

[DEAD7]

The task is to minimize deaths. Remember that police aren't even supposed to kill people who are guilty, let alone people who are at best suspects.

Ok, in your opinion what would they rate of death be if they were successful in minimizing it? and what is that number based on?

 

[DEAD7]

He is an officer but doesn't understand how ludicrous his statement is? Even if he feels it, he shouldn't feel bold enough to say it to civilians.

WHAT IS THE ACCEPTABLE NUMBER?

These are people, not products or livestock. What happens when you assign a quota like that?

As an example, let's assume 200 -300 people will die by officers every year.

What happens when the first person dies? Do you say, "Well, Jim, we are in quota, just keep it under 300......sprinkle a little crack on him"

The fact he used that as an argument shows his views of people and what's acceptable has changed.

Acceptable death totals?

Man fukk him.

I see your point, but(racism aside) there have to be tolerances... even if we get every reform we dream of the number isnt going to ever be 0.
Some number of deaths is going to have to be accepted.

 

[DEAD7]

And if those 2 or 3 are justified it's fine. The reform is to prosecute and get rid of the Bad Apples. Currently, that shyt is damn near impossible.

This is where I am... but many people believe it should be 0... and im trying to understand why? what is that based on?

 

[Black Panther]

He believes those occurrences are few and far between and that those officers should be punished.
His main gripe is the broad brush people are using when discussing police reform.

Tell him that supporting police and "backing the blue" should go hand in hand with rooting out bad cops.

As well as addressing the systemic issues in police culture that allow bad apples to get in.

Bad policing in the US is approached in the same way as racism in the US: as isolated, individual failings that are aberrations from the norm, rather than a systemic problem that requires systemic solutions.

 

[DEAD7]

Fukk the police are my thoughts. He's using the same logic a rapist would use to justify their rapes. Funny how that same logic doesn't apply when people drop cops in the streets

...a cop(good or bad) dies in the line of duty every 54 hours.Cops ive spoken to accept this as part of the job.

 

[Black Panther]

I see your point, but(racism aside) there have to be tolerances... even if we get every reform we dream of the number isnt going to ever be 0.
Some number of deaths is going to have to be accepted.

You're being shortsighted.

Just because no killings are "acceptable", that doesn't mean that a "quota" is the proposed solution. The fact that airplane crashes are inevitable doesn't mean that there's a quota for "bad apple" pilots.

If police are held more responsible (by either eliminating or significantly modifying qualified immunity for LEO's), police killings would be taken more seriously.

 

[DEAD7]

Bad policing in the US is approached in the same way as racism in the US: as isolated, individual failings that are aberrations from the norm, rather than a systemic problem that requires systemic solutions.

Facts.

 

[DEAD7]

You're being shortsighted.

Just because no killings are "acceptable", that doesn't mean that a "quota" is the proposed solution. The fact that airplane crashes are inevitable doesn't mean that there's a quota for "bad apple" pilots.

If police are held more responsible (by either eliminating or significantly modifying qualified immunity for LEO's), police killings would be taken more seriously.

No ones asking for a quota... just a tolerance. What is the basis for the belief that 2-3 or even 4-5 deaths a day is bad?
How do we know these numbers dont reflect a good job?

 

[TheGodling]

Ok, in your opinion what would they rate of death be if they were successful in minimizing it? and what is that number based on?

Don't be obtuse. Rate of death is not a KPI to follow on a stat board. The task is to lower the amount of arrests resulting in death. The goal, even if unrealistic, is to bring it to zero.

I will hardly pretend things are perfect here in the Netherlands but a police shooting will lead to a genuine investigation into the officer's actions and whether there really was no alternative, even if it was a shooting without fatal consequences. And although I will say the system still favors the police, the investigation is serious enough that it makes most cops think twice about acting reckless.

 

[DEAD7]

Don't be obtuse. Rate of death is not a KPI to follow on a stat board. The task is to lower the amount of arrests resulting in death. The goal, even if unrealistic, is to bring it to zero.

I will hardly pretend things are perfect here in the Netherlands but a police shooting will lead to a genuine investigation into the officer's actions and whether there really was no alternative, even if it was a shooting without fatal consequences. And although I will say the system still favors the police, the investigation is serious enough that it makes most cops think twice about acting reckless.

Genuine investigations... i wish.