the next guy
Superstar
Please tell me how. Why is everyone being sold.
The 2014-15 MLB Hot Stove Thread
- Thread starter Regular_P
- Start date
We're a team relying on pitching but Flores and Murphy would be the worst double play combo in baseball and probably the worst in the past 10 years.I think we're in between a rock and a hard place. I keep hearing that Sandy doesn't want to part with any of the young pitching. At this rate, I wouldn't be mad if Flores was the starting SS, provided his bat compensates for his lack of defense. Tulo would excite me, I won't front, but I don't want to gut the farm system in the process. Plus I'd always be likewith that hip of his.
Disgustya Stallone
Man Who Owns 2 Microwaves
they did the same sh*t in 2011 and went on to win the division 2 years in a row and a wc. you probably dont remember but espn and the sports world was calling for an epically bad season from oakland..
it bothers me that people are trying to discredit oakland as a team... they are 1 of 3 teams since 1999 to have at least 75 wins every year - the other 2 st louis and nyy
they obviously dont tank to win in the draft, they've never done that like tampa, cubs, astros etc
yseJ
Empire strikes back
they have one year to try and go deep in the offsThe Padres right now
cuz in 2016...its our year again
Disgustya Stallone
Man Who Owns 2 Microwaves
tulo cummng to oakland brah
What's the difference between the STLC/NYY and the Oakland A's
Disgustya Stallone
Man Who Owns 2 Microwaves
about 50-70% of payroll
Not that 2 of the 3 have won a world series? You getting an Oakland A's stimulus check from Billy b?
Disgustya Stallone
Man Who Owns 2 Microwaves
nope... another thing the 3 teams have in common is they are the teams with the most WS rings all time:
Not that 2 of the 3 have won a world series? You getting an Oakland A's stimulus check from Billy b?
1. NYY: 27
2. STL: 11
3. OAK: 9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series
and i grew up in oakland cuz
we better pay this bum minimum.
god shamgod
Veteran
i could have written that speculation and ive never met a source. of course they'd want our top pitching prospect, of course the mets are broke rhetoric would be brought up. if the trade happens i bet they don't hang it up over salary relief. his deal isn't even that bad in this market.
Padres' new star-studded lineup ill-fitting
The whole baseball world is talking about the San Diego Padres today, in the dead of winter, probably for the first time since Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter were traded for Fred McGriff and Tony Fernandez a quarter-century ago. The Padres’ spring training site in Peoria, Ariz., has usually been a place reporters pass on their way to some other more interesting venue, but in a couple of months, San Diego’s rounds of batting practice will be must-see, with Matt Kemp, Justin Upton and Wil Myers taking turns to launch baseballs way over the tilted heads of awestruck teammates shagging fly balls.
Before the events of recent days, you would’ve been more likely to find Bigfoot in the Gaslamp district of San Diego than three of baseball’s most explosive power hitters in the Padres’ lineup. The team has everybody’s attention, and presumably, this will translate into immediate payoff in offseason ticket sales. The Padres can already count a win in the anticipation column.
Which is why it’s no fun to acknowledge the cracks in these days of Padres bliss: When quilted together, the pieces San Diego has acquired appear completely ill-fitting, like a resplendent suit that runs beyond the fingertips and over the toes.
Kemp alone, or Upton alone, or Myers alone would represent an offensive upgrade for a team that challenged records for futility last year. But the Padres invested heavily and grabbed all three, plus All-Star catcher Derek Norris -- a splurge that must feel good for the San Diego ownership which watched the 2014 Padres lineup stack up zeroes day after day.
But Myers is viewed by a lot of scouts as a below-average right fielder, and now he needs to play center field. Kemp has generated some of the worst defensive metrics in the majors, and he will be the right fielder. Some evaluators reiterated Friday, after the news of the Upton trade broke, that they see him as subpar defensively. And this trio will inhabit one of the most pitcher-friendly venues in the majors, Petco Park, with its canyon alleys nightly invaded by a marine layer from San Diego’s harbor.
The sport has trended toward run prevention in recent seasons, and the Padres’ outfield alignment will run completely counter to that, and against the history of successful teams sprinkling their lineup with at least a couple of high-end defensive players. Oakland pitchers griped privately last season about Norris’s catching skills, and evaluators opined Friday that among the Padres’ infielders, only first baseman Yonder Alonso can be considered above-average.
“There’s not going to be a lot of help for the pitchers, that’s for sure,” said one advance scout wistfully.
Occasionally, there are teams that win with these sort of powerful Frankenstein lineups. The Tigers, for example, have played deep into October in recent seasons despite having lousy defensive teams -- but remember, they had Miguel Cabrera to anchor the lineup, and a rotation mostly comprised of elite strikeout pitchers, such as Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer. The Dodgers had defensive problems at short, second and center field last season and won 94 games, but they also went 25-4 in Clayton Kershaw’s starts -- before targeting defensive upgrades this offseason.
A lot of the time, the all-hit, no-field lineups result in ugliness, like that of the 1996 Red Sox, who sometimes had Jose Canseco, Kevin Mitchell, Mo Vaughn, Mike Greenwell, Mike Stanley and others shoe-horned into the same lineup. That Red Sox team hit 209 homers but had an ERA of near 5.00, not surprisingly.
One rival official says the Padres’ projected lineup actually reminds him of a team of more recent vintage -- the 2014 Atlanta Braves.
“They’ve got a lot of power and they’ll have good days, but there’s a lot of all or nothing there, and a lot of strikeouts,” he said.
Myers had 90 strikeouts in 325 at-bats last season; Upton had 171 strikeouts last season; Kemp had 145. The three of them all ranked in the top 45 in strikeout rate among hitters with more than 350 plate appearances. Jedd Gyorko had 100 strikeouts in 111 games.
The distinctly right-handed composition of the San Diego lineup may also increase the vulnerability of the group. Kemp, Myers and Upton are all right-handed, and so are Norris and Gyorko. This is what the Padres’ lineup options could look like:
C Norris R, Federowicz R
1B Alonso L
2B Jedd Gyorko R
SS Alexi Amarista/Clint Barmes L/R
3B Yangervis Solarte S
LF Upton R
CF Myers R
RF Kemp R
Alonso is a left-handed hitter and Solarte a switch-hitter, but they don’t really hit for power and won’t be deterrents to opposing managers' stacking up right-handed pitching against the Padres, starters as well as relievers. Arizona’s Brad Ziegler and the Giants’ Sergio Romo, two of the NL West’s best right-handed relievers, might pitch in all of their teams' games against San Diego. (Austin Hedges, the Padres’ best catching prospect, is also right-handed.) It’s easier for right-handed batters to hit homers than it is for lefties in Petco Park, and Kemp, Upton and Myers have the sort of power needed to overwhelm any park. But the Padres will see opposing teams attacking them with the same game plan day after day, because they lean so heavily to the right.
The Padres are a work in progress, given their massive surplus in outfielders. They could theoretically keep the left-handed-hitting Seth Smith and mix him in against right-handed pitchers, but Kemp and Upton are everyday players, and if Smith spelled Myers on a given day, Bud Black would have to identify another center fielder from a group best suited to play the corners. It might be better for the Padres to trade Smith, and/or Cameron Maybin, and/or Will Venable. Perhaps through the rest of their offseason moves, San Diego will find a better balance.
But it’s hard to imagine the core of the Padres changing that much before the start of the 2015 season. They will have a lot of right-handed power, they will strike out a lot, and they will probably have to play through defensive deficiencies, and if the Frankenstein formula doesn’t work, then the splash of the winter could quickly evaporate through the summer.
Fans in San Diego historically support teams that win and ignore teams that lose, and if the Padres’ reconstructed team struggles again to hover around .500, dragged down by the defense and the strikeouts and a weakness against right-handers, would-be patrons will quickly head for the beaches and bike paths.
Justin Havens of ESPN Stats & Info sent along these numbers:
Justin Upton's last three seasons
HR Fly ball distance Strikeout rate
2014 29 287 ft. 26.7%*
2013 27 280 ft. 25.0%
2012 17 278 ft. 19.3%
*11th-highest strikeout rate last season
Justin Upton appears to have made the conscious tradeoff of generating more power but also having an increasing amount of swing-and-miss in his game.
The one outstanding question: Who is going to play center field?
Padres outfield acquisitions -- defensive notes:
Matt Kemp: minus-72 defensive runs saved in 6,927 career innings in CF (minus-12 in 326 innings last season)
Wil Myers: minus-10 DRS in 1,332 career outfield innings (53 career innings in CF)
Justin Upton: 0 career innings in CF
Very few teams have received less production from their right-handed hitters over the last few years than the Padres: Their 2014 slugging percentage from their right-handed batters was the lowest by any team since the 1992 New York Mets.
Upton is entering his prime, if this past season is any evidence. He was one of just three players in baseball in their age 26 seasons or younger to smash 25 homers and have at least 100 RBIs. The other two? Giancarlo Stanton and Mike Trout.
The whole baseball world is talking about the San Diego Padres today, in the dead of winter, probably for the first time since Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter were traded for Fred McGriff and Tony Fernandez a quarter-century ago. The Padres’ spring training site in Peoria, Ariz., has usually been a place reporters pass on their way to some other more interesting venue, but in a couple of months, San Diego’s rounds of batting practice will be must-see, with Matt Kemp, Justin Upton and Wil Myers taking turns to launch baseballs way over the tilted heads of awestruck teammates shagging fly balls.
Before the events of recent days, you would’ve been more likely to find Bigfoot in the Gaslamp district of San Diego than three of baseball’s most explosive power hitters in the Padres’ lineup. The team has everybody’s attention, and presumably, this will translate into immediate payoff in offseason ticket sales. The Padres can already count a win in the anticipation column.
Which is why it’s no fun to acknowledge the cracks in these days of Padres bliss: When quilted together, the pieces San Diego has acquired appear completely ill-fitting, like a resplendent suit that runs beyond the fingertips and over the toes.
Kemp alone, or Upton alone, or Myers alone would represent an offensive upgrade for a team that challenged records for futility last year. But the Padres invested heavily and grabbed all three, plus All-Star catcher Derek Norris -- a splurge that must feel good for the San Diego ownership which watched the 2014 Padres lineup stack up zeroes day after day.
But Myers is viewed by a lot of scouts as a below-average right fielder, and now he needs to play center field. Kemp has generated some of the worst defensive metrics in the majors, and he will be the right fielder. Some evaluators reiterated Friday, after the news of the Upton trade broke, that they see him as subpar defensively. And this trio will inhabit one of the most pitcher-friendly venues in the majors, Petco Park, with its canyon alleys nightly invaded by a marine layer from San Diego’s harbor.
The sport has trended toward run prevention in recent seasons, and the Padres’ outfield alignment will run completely counter to that, and against the history of successful teams sprinkling their lineup with at least a couple of high-end defensive players. Oakland pitchers griped privately last season about Norris’s catching skills, and evaluators opined Friday that among the Padres’ infielders, only first baseman Yonder Alonso can be considered above-average.
“There’s not going to be a lot of help for the pitchers, that’s for sure,” said one advance scout wistfully.
Occasionally, there are teams that win with these sort of powerful Frankenstein lineups. The Tigers, for example, have played deep into October in recent seasons despite having lousy defensive teams -- but remember, they had Miguel Cabrera to anchor the lineup, and a rotation mostly comprised of elite strikeout pitchers, such as Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer. The Dodgers had defensive problems at short, second and center field last season and won 94 games, but they also went 25-4 in Clayton Kershaw’s starts -- before targeting defensive upgrades this offseason.
A lot of the time, the all-hit, no-field lineups result in ugliness, like that of the 1996 Red Sox, who sometimes had Jose Canseco, Kevin Mitchell, Mo Vaughn, Mike Greenwell, Mike Stanley and others shoe-horned into the same lineup. That Red Sox team hit 209 homers but had an ERA of near 5.00, not surprisingly.
One rival official says the Padres’ projected lineup actually reminds him of a team of more recent vintage -- the 2014 Atlanta Braves.
“They’ve got a lot of power and they’ll have good days, but there’s a lot of all or nothing there, and a lot of strikeouts,” he said.
Myers had 90 strikeouts in 325 at-bats last season; Upton had 171 strikeouts last season; Kemp had 145. The three of them all ranked in the top 45 in strikeout rate among hitters with more than 350 plate appearances. Jedd Gyorko had 100 strikeouts in 111 games.
The distinctly right-handed composition of the San Diego lineup may also increase the vulnerability of the group. Kemp, Myers and Upton are all right-handed, and so are Norris and Gyorko. This is what the Padres’ lineup options could look like:
C Norris R, Federowicz R
1B Alonso L
2B Jedd Gyorko R
SS Alexi Amarista/Clint Barmes L/R
3B Yangervis Solarte S
LF Upton R
CF Myers R
RF Kemp R
Alonso is a left-handed hitter and Solarte a switch-hitter, but they don’t really hit for power and won’t be deterrents to opposing managers' stacking up right-handed pitching against the Padres, starters as well as relievers. Arizona’s Brad Ziegler and the Giants’ Sergio Romo, two of the NL West’s best right-handed relievers, might pitch in all of their teams' games against San Diego. (Austin Hedges, the Padres’ best catching prospect, is also right-handed.) It’s easier for right-handed batters to hit homers than it is for lefties in Petco Park, and Kemp, Upton and Myers have the sort of power needed to overwhelm any park. But the Padres will see opposing teams attacking them with the same game plan day after day, because they lean so heavily to the right.
The Padres are a work in progress, given their massive surplus in outfielders. They could theoretically keep the left-handed-hitting Seth Smith and mix him in against right-handed pitchers, but Kemp and Upton are everyday players, and if Smith spelled Myers on a given day, Bud Black would have to identify another center fielder from a group best suited to play the corners. It might be better for the Padres to trade Smith, and/or Cameron Maybin, and/or Will Venable. Perhaps through the rest of their offseason moves, San Diego will find a better balance.
But it’s hard to imagine the core of the Padres changing that much before the start of the 2015 season. They will have a lot of right-handed power, they will strike out a lot, and they will probably have to play through defensive deficiencies, and if the Frankenstein formula doesn’t work, then the splash of the winter could quickly evaporate through the summer.
Fans in San Diego historically support teams that win and ignore teams that lose, and if the Padres’ reconstructed team struggles again to hover around .500, dragged down by the defense and the strikeouts and a weakness against right-handers, would-be patrons will quickly head for the beaches and bike paths.
Justin Havens of ESPN Stats & Info sent along these numbers:
Justin Upton's last three seasons
HR Fly ball distance Strikeout rate
2014 29 287 ft. 26.7%*
2013 27 280 ft. 25.0%
2012 17 278 ft. 19.3%
*11th-highest strikeout rate last season
Justin Upton appears to have made the conscious tradeoff of generating more power but also having an increasing amount of swing-and-miss in his game.
The one outstanding question: Who is going to play center field?
Padres outfield acquisitions -- defensive notes:
Matt Kemp: minus-72 defensive runs saved in 6,927 career innings in CF (minus-12 in 326 innings last season)
Wil Myers: minus-10 DRS in 1,332 career outfield innings (53 career innings in CF)
Justin Upton: 0 career innings in CF
Very few teams have received less production from their right-handed hitters over the last few years than the Padres: Their 2014 slugging percentage from their right-handed batters was the lowest by any team since the 1992 New York Mets.
Upton is entering his prime, if this past season is any evidence. He was one of just three players in baseball in their age 26 seasons or younger to smash 25 homers and have at least 100 RBIs. The other two? Giancarlo Stanton and Mike Trout.
