The argument that Drake "makes good music/is a really good artist" holds ZERO weight & is dead

[RTF]

So 4 average songs (on a mixtape) out of like 100+ songs an additional 100 verses, means that he's Beyonce status

The difference between me and you is that I'm comfortable with saying "I don't know".
I'm not trying to guess, he hasn't denied or confirmed anything. He could lie, these rappers lie all the time and no one could sue him for lying either. Personally I'm still waiting for the Drake interview, and no I do not respect taking someones bars. But if it's less than a percent of all your verses I can forgive you and move on.

Anthony Palman is credited on 8 songs on NWTS. Was he the QM previously? Aint no telling.
He's listed on most of the songs on Take Care too.
All I know is that QM is supposed to have largely written 1 song for Drake and 2 guest appearances. Nobody is denying that these exist so i'll take it at face value.

Now for the rest of his catalogue with additional writers (I won't even count the Weeknd as I assume that's all for singing - although the Weeknd did say he wrote Practice totally) - which is a large percentage of album work. I do not know how much input the other writers have but I do know now what the ceiling of input looks like and it is scary.

I can't think of another modern example of similar practice except for Beyonce. Chris Brown perhaps?

 

[Harry B]

Anthony Palman is credited on 8 songs on NWTS. Was he the QM previously? Aint no telling.
He's listed on most of the songs on Take Care too.
All I know is that QM is supposed to have largely written 1 song for Drake and 2 guest appearances. Nobody is denying that these exist so i'll take it at face value.

Now for the rest of his catalogue with additional writers (I won't even count the Weeknd as I assume that's all for singing - although the Weeknd did say he wrote Practice totally) - which is a large percentage of album work. I do not know how much input the other writers have but I do know now what the ceiling of input looks like and it is scary.

I can't think of another modern example of similar practice except for Beyonce. Chris Brown perhaps?

Anthony Palman is on like every song on NWTS, he's not a writer though. that's Drakes goon OVO Hush, who was a super wack super gangster rapper for like 12 years ago. I have a hard time seeing him do anything but just be in the studio and give feedback, specially on those soft ass songs. It would be like C-murder ghostwriting that joint with Jhene Aiko lol. He's on Damn near every track on Take Car as well and a listed as an Engineer on his first album (and he's not a damn engineer either lol).

And Weekend said that he wrote the hook for practice and the songs he had additional vocals on and Crew Love or The Ride. I mean Juvenile wrote the hook for practice if we should keep it 100.

I only count additional writers who are writers that aren't sampled or producers, that's basically just Hush (Who doesn't write), QM (4 songs) and Weekend on Take Care (4 songs on Take Care, which he did some hooks and some vocals).

 

[director_of_bands]

i get he got exposed and shyt, but what exactly are we going to do, say he never wrote anything and isn't writing the diss tracks he put out now? are we going to discredit everything he does from now on?

yes! his violations are worse than what vanilla ice did so he should be treated the same

 

[RTF]

Anthony Palman is on like every song on NWTS, he's not a writer though. that's Drakes goon OVO Hush, who was a super wack super gangster rapper for like 12 years ago. I have a hard time seeing him do anything but just be in the studio and give feedback, specially on those soft ass songs. It would be like C-murder ghostwriting that joint with Jhene Aiko lol.

And Weekend said that he wrote the hook for practice and the songs he had additional vocals on and Crew Love or The Ride.

I only count additional writers who are writers that aren't sampled or producers, that's basically just Hush (who doesn't write), QM (4 songs) and Weekend on Take Care (4 songs on Take Care, which he did some hooks and some vocals).

Breh - Hush has writing credits on all those songs. If he didn't write anything, he wouldn't consistently have writing credits. Now you're seeing facts and denying them.

There's also Kenza Samir - a poet - who helps out from time. She's on No Tellin' one of the best songs on the album. She did "love people and use things not the other way around" on Connect. Probably did "think they lions and tigers, I got hunting and put heads on my.."

Lupe Fiasco started out a gangsta rapper. things change. people change. I;m not saying Palman writes all the songs but his involvement might be more than a line here or there. There's also random writers on there PND, Emile is listed as songwrietr not a producer, Paul Jefferies.

There's this Nickeleus F dude from before.. says he did hook and wrote lyrics Surprise: Drake Has A History Of Using "Ghostwriters" (If You Want To Call Them That)

It's looking more and more like a Kanye effort from a lyrical standpoint - worse at times with the possibility of reference tracks. If Yeezy wasn't involved in production, I couldn't put him on any type of real artistic pedigree.

 

[Harry B]

Breh - Hush has writing credits on all those songs. If he didn't write anything, he wouldn't consistently have writing credits. Now you're seeing facts and denying them.

There's also Kenza Samir - a poet - who helps out from time. She's on No Tellin' one of the best songs on the album. She did "love people and use things not the other way around" on Connect. Probably did "think they lions and tigers, I got hunting and put heads on my.."

Lupe Fiasco started out a gangsta rapper. things change. people change. I;m not saying Palman writes all the songs but his involvement might be more than a line here or there. There's also random writers on there PND, Emile is listed as songwrietr not a producer, Paul Jefferies.

There's this Nickeleus F dude from before.. says he did hook and wrote lyrics Surprise: Drake Has A History Of Using "Ghostwriters" (If You Want To Call Them That)

It's looking more and more like a Kanye effort from a lyrical standpoint - worse at times with the possibility of reference tracks. If Yeezy wasn't involved in production, I couldn't put him on any type of real artistic pedigree.

Hush does not write, he'll tell you that himself and he'll tell you that he isn't an engineer either.
He's Drake's main man, always with Drake. It's like Steve Stoute writing for Nas in the 90s or OG Juan writing for Jay, nah.
He's wack as fukk and his short career there was nothing creative at all.


I just think that Drake is open about shyt that everyone does and instead of paying them flat fees, he gives them credit in the cd and in interviews.
Taking one line from a poet and giving her credit is cool, Nas didn't give Maya Angelou credit for taking her quote "Life's a bytch", while Drake give credit to Kenza for a similar short line.

Which songs have PND done? That sounds suspect.
He has vocals on NWTS and produced three tracks on the mixtape.
Paul Jeffries is a multi-instrumentalist aka Ninteen85
Emile is a producer and instrumentalist as well, you can get writing credits if you write the drums but still not get production credits.


As far as helping with hooks, thats normal industry practice. People like Omilio did Give it 2 me song, gave it to Jay and wasn't even in the credits.
shyt like that happen all the time, even Royce the 5'9 the other day said that there's people helping with hooks, being coached and that all the time. Back in the days it was usually the producer, then came the days when people started sending beats and they had their friends or whatever to bounce ideas with and get coached by.


It's like Puff is on like 70% on American Gangster and he didn't make any beats, do you think Puff writes for Jay too? He was coaching Jay, helping with hooks, helping with arrangement of production and stuff like that.

 

[HearNoEvil]

I mean, trying to listen to The Drakes lately has been comedy for me.



Listen to this hook and try not to bust out laughing. "No help that's all me?" Come on man!

@RTF is dropping vital information in this thread. The same info I've seen myself, over this past few weeks.

Deny the individual facts, rumors or interviews all you want, but once you piece them together, the new picture you get of Drake's career is very damaged.

I agree with the premise of this thread. Drake has been getting borderline Kanye level help with his lyrics, while not once producing a beat in his whole life.

That's not a great artist. It's a great actor.

Which songs have PND done? That sounds suspect.

It's a known rumor that PND had a dispute with Drake's camp over credits.

And OVO not allowing him to shine as an individual, instead regulating him to Drake's "inspiration".

PartyNextDoor was on the brink of jumping ship, ala The Weeknd, but decided against it when a large check came in the mail.

It's only a rumor, so I'm sure you'll deny this. Just add this tidbit to your other pieces of Drake's career, and maybe one day you'll put them together and get it.

 

[Harry B]

I mean, trying to listen to The Drakes lately has been comedy for me.



Listen to this hook and try not to bust out laughing. "No help that's all me?" Come on man!

@RTF is dropping vital information in this thread. The same info I've seen myself, over this past few weeks.

Deny the individual fcats, rumors or interviews all you want, but once you piece them together, the new picture you get of Drake's career is very damaged.

I agree with the premise of this thread. Drake has been getting borderline Kanye level help with his lyrics, while not once producing a beat in his whole life.

That's not a great artist. It's a great actor.



It's a known rumor that PND had a dispute with Drake's camp over credits.

And OVO not allowing him to shine as an individual, instead regulating him to Drake's "inspiration".

PartyNextDoor was on the brink of jumping ship, ala The Weeknd, but decided against it when a large check came in the mail.

It's only a rumor, so I'm sure you'll deny this. Just add this tidbit to your other pieces of Drake's career, and maybe one day you'll put them together and get it.

It's hard to trust rumours with a man that got religious haters.

 

[HearNoEvil]

It's hard to trust rumours with a man that got religious haters.

I don't blame you for that.

If this were my favorite artist, I'd be just as resistant to anything not based 100% in fact.

Like I said, just keep that in the back of your mind. And if more damning evidence ever comes out, remember it.

But personally, I've seen more than enough to connect the dots.

 

[Harry B]

I don't blame you for that.

If this were my favorite artist, I'd be just as resistant to anything not based 100% in fact.

Like I said, just keep that in the back of your mind. And if more damning evidence ever comes out, remember it.

But personally, I've seen more than enough to connect the dots.

Drake is not my favorite artist though, I'm just extremely objective when it comes to every rapper.

I think it might've been worse if I actually fukked with the last mixtape, the only songs I play is second half of No telling, 6 pm and "my woees" joint. In fact it might be average cause he found inspiration in QM for all I know. He is one of the illest new rappers though, him, Cole, Kendrick, Future.. But they are far from my favorites.

As far as PND goes, he got credit on NWTS, which means that his publishing was correct (he did background vocals). Why would Drake always give credits, even to twitter poets for working on 1 line on a song, but say fukk PND on another track. It's not consistent.


The songs which have credits, sure that's foul imo seeing how he's been a dope rapper for 10 years. So we have about 4 songs from QM and his whole discography features engineering and writing by his main man who can't write for shyt. Just like I don't believe that Puff writes for Jay-z, I think his friends who are executives/goons at OVO are people who are in the studio just helping.

As far as hooks goes, well honestly I couldn't give a fukk about someone helping with a hook here and there. Cause I know that every artist has some help for hooks. Specially if it's something that's for the clubs and shyt like that. It's like my man asked me to to interpret some regression for him, I did it in 3 minutes and I was "featured" in the thank you notes for his thesis.

 

[RTF]

Hush does not write, he'll tell you that himself and he'll tell you that he isn't an engineer either.
He's Drake's main man, always with Drake. It's like Steve Stoute writing for Nas in the 90s or OG Juan writing for Jay, nah.
He's wack as fukk and his short career there was nothing creative at all.


I just think that Drake is open about shyt that everyone does and instead of paying them flat fees, he gives them credit in the cd and in interviews.
Taking one line from a poet and giving her credit is cool, Nas didn't give Maya Angelou credit for taking her quote "Life's a bytch", while Drake give credit to Kenza for a similar short line.

Which songs have PND done? That sounds suspect.
He has vocals on NWTS and produced three tracks on the mixtape.
Paul Jeffries is a multi-instrumentalist aka Ninteen85
Emile is a producer and instrumentalist as well, you can get writing credits if you write the drums but still not get production credits.


As far as helping with hooks, thats normal industry practice. People like Omilio did Give it 2 me song, gave it to Jay and wasn't even in the credits.
shyt like that happen all the time, even Royce the 5'9 the other day said that there's people helping with hooks, being coached and that all the time. Back in the days it was usually the producer, then came the days when people started sending beats and they had their friends or whatever to bounce ideas with and get coached by.


It's like Puff is on like 70% on American Gangster and he didn't make any beats, do you think Puff writes for Jay too? He was coaching Jay, helping with hooks, helping with arrangement of production and stuff like that.

Does Steve Stoute have writing credits all over IWW? So Drake is just giving this guy Hush writing credits on his album because they are friends? There's nothing in Consequence's or Cyhi's careers and they both helped Kanye with rhymes. It can happen. But you can keep denying facts though. If a man has writing credits i'm going to assume he helped with the writing process.

Back to the Kanye comparison. He gives everyone credit too but people still help out with the rhymes.

He didn't "take the line". If you read the article, he wrote the song with Kenza. He says "we" wrote that line and there's possibly more.

What about Nickeleus F?

Producers are musical and often help out with lyrics. Emile is also a songwriter as well as a producer. If he's listed as a songwriter and not as a producer - he helped out with the lyrical content. For an example, Jeff Bhasker (frequent Kanye producer) has stated he has written hooks with Kanye and been involved in the overall songwriting process. So for example, he's listed as a writer for Monster but not a producer. Kanye gives credit to absolutely everyone in production, down to who played what sometimes, Bhasker was not involved in the production but was involved in the songwriting.

I'm really starting to question your musical knowledge breh. Omilio took those lyrics (interpolation because it's slightly different) from Rick James "Give it to Me". Rick James gets paid off that - Omilio didn't. The end. In any case Omiliio is the person actually on the hook anyway.

Why you talking about hooks anyway? - i'm talking song writing... hooks and lyrics.

Drake has had 1 ep, 1 retail mixtape, 3 studio albums - he doesn't need coaching. Clearly, what is happening is people write for him.

PUFF DADDY IS A PRODUCER. We know what he brings to the table. Vision. Musical direction. American Gangsta sounds like a 90's Badboy album. Dramatic live instrumentation mixed in with samples and ish. Brought to life by the new Hitmen. QM.

 

[Take_Note]

Most rappers have ghostwriting talk and rumors connected to them. It's hard to know who to trust on these allegations

I've heard Lupe wrote some stuff for TBA, I've heard Lupe wrote some stuff for American Gangster. Cam'ron argued Jay doesn't come up with a lot of his stuff and cited all the biting (paying homage) you can find in his lyrics. I've heard Em has had bars from Royce. I've heard Nas has used lines from others. Kanye has always had ghostwriting allegations raised against him

It's really impossible to know what's true and what isn't when it comes to ghostwriting talk

 

[RTF]

As far as PND goes, he got credit on NWTS, which means that his publishing was correct (he did background vocals). Why would Drake always give credits, even to twitter poets for working on 1 line on a song, but say fukk PND on another track. It's not consistent.


The songs which have credits, sure that's foul imo seeing how he's been a dope rapper for 10 years. So we have about 4 songs from QM and his whole discography features engineering and writing by his main man who can't write for shyt. Just like I don't believe that Puff writes for Jay-z, I think his friends who are executives/goons at OVO are people who are in the studio just helping.

1. Kenza is not a "twitter poet". She's the sister of Drake's ex-girlfriend and there's documented pictures of the two together. She sits down in the studio and writes with/for Drake.

"Who helped me write on“Connect” [11] is this girl Kenza. She’s a great girl and a phenomenal poetry writer. We just sit together and come up with the best way to say things. [12] Actually, me and her did [the lyric] “love people and use things and not the other way around.”

[12] “When I texted him, 'Isn't it amazing, how you talk all that shyt and still we lack communication,' he was like, 'Are you talking to me about me right now or is that for the song?'” —Kenza Samir, poet

You don't get song writing credit for backing vocals... again unless you were involved in the songwriting process. If PND did backing vocals.... he may have written some of the song too. You can see that right?

The Puff example is poor. We know what he brings to the table and it isn't lyrics.

 

[Dirty Needles]

I love how so many examples of rappers using ghostwriters/reference tracks have been presented this week from

Dre
Snoop
Eazy E
Nas <---
Weezy
Big Boi <---
Kanye
Meek
Jay <---

But nikkas are only thirsty to discredit drake and act like this was never in rap. Or act like he never writes even though he's wrote songs for other artists. but haters will hate

 

[Dboy41]

Drake doesnt write yet meek mill literally copied and pasted ace hoods flow.. Take your pick

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Some artists have ghostwriting rumors attached to them but the difference is they stay as rumors. Chatter. Drake was outed. He handled it well so far but he didn't really have to do anything because most white folk who are his fans don't care.