The Kevin Durant Conundrum...

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If Kobe had Mo instead of Smush, Kobe wouldve won titles sooner
Switch Bron's teammates and Kobe's teammates, and those commercials don't even get made because no one in their wildest dreams would think Kobe is going to drag Mo Williams and Delonte West to the Finals. Nike played up Bron because he was the biggest star in the league and had already carried the worst Finals sidekicks of all-time to one Finals matchup. How does that help your case at all?

You keep dodging every single fact I lay down about Bron's teammates and team, because you know you have nothing to say. You can only talk about perceptions of Bron and media attention. Doesn't that get embarrassing at some point?


Some people in the conservation are talking about basketball. And others are talking about puppets.
 

Rhakim

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If Kobe had Mo instead of Smush, Kobe wouldve won titles sooner


In 2008 Mo would have been maybe the 4th or 5th best player on the Lakers, so that might have been enough to get them over the hump? I mean, on the 2009 and 2010 Finals teams Mo would have been arguably the 6th or 7th most important player for those Lakers, so not really seeing why you think he moves the needle.

Kobe winning titles with Mo Williams as his #1 option? :laff:
 

MostReal

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Exactly. Prime KG would have been ridiculous on that team, fits into the offense more smoothly while giving a huge boost to the defense.


That's why ring-counting out of context is so meaningless to me. 2017 and 2018 didn't prove anything about KD that we didn't already know because the Warriors didn't need KD to be a GOAT or even a HOFer to win. Any high-end forward in KD's place is going to win with that team. You're talking Dirk or KG, but put in Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Paul George, Khris Middleton, they're all gonna get it done too. Your ranking as a great shouldn't be impacted by things that you didn't need to be that great to do.

This is probably one of your best post ever.
 

Rhakim

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This is probably one of your best post ever.


I'm consistent on that - after the Lakers won in 2020, I said that it had little impact on Bron's legacy for me. It proved a bit more longevity, but he didn't need to be nearly as great to win in 2020 as he already had in 2012, 2013, and 2016.

I judge greats by how they perform when they need to be great, not just by happening to be good enough in relatively easy situations.
 

Reggie

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KD is the ultimate floor raiser and his talent says he should be top 5. But I don't even have him in my top 10. After Mike Bron Cap Magic Tim Shaq Kobe Wilt Bird and Steph which is my top 10 I've still got Dream and Bill over him too. He may fit in that next category but cats like Dr. J and Moses are somewhere in there too. With two Finals MVP's and none as the undisputed leader I can't put him over Bird yet unless he does a bit more which would then get him in my top 10. Great career no doubt but I feel between the injuries and NEVER playing with a pass first point guard until now KD missed the opportunity to be THE GOAT. A scorer of his caliber should have at least 8 to 10 scoring titles and NEVER would a TRUE lead dog let Westbrook average more shot attempts then him.
 

murksiderock

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Comparing KD to Bron is a false equivalency. First of all we've seen Bron take rosters weaker than these Nets to The Finals twice. Bron never demanded a trade, much less twice in the same year...

The comparison ends at demanding roster upgrades, which every great player does, by the way. Bron's never tapped out on his squad in the middle of the season, and the chaotic front office or poor coaching in Brooklyn, we know LeBron has dealt with that...

He's never punted on his team in the middle of the season. He's never demanded a trade, and always fulfilled his contractual obligations professionally...

This Nets team, the core of which includes Claxton and Harris and made the playoffs before Durant's arrival, is not the same caliber as the Lakers team that Bron walked into that missed the playoffs 5 years running. Just stop it...

Again it's unproven this Nets team couldn't compete with Milwaukee and Boston. Unless what you're really alluding to is Durant couldn't elevate ti the level Giannis and Tatum can, which would be a revelation. Because this Nets team with Durant, has shooting, so they have spacing. They have both perimeter and front court defense. They have a second scorer in Dinwiddie. They have depth. The only glaring weakness would be lack of a true point guard---->but that weakness was here with Kyrie too and ostensibly you have Simmons who can justify that role with Dinwiddie as a secondary ball handler...

So no, I don't know that he couldn't take this squad over flawed Milwaukee and flawed Boston. This just sounds like you don't believe Durant can transcend and elevate them over the stars the other two have...
I was right about the point that Durant with that Brooklyn roster pre-Suns trade, but after trading Kyrie, could've challenged Milwaukee, Philly, Boston...

if you really believe in Kevin Durant...

This trade from Brooklyn really revealed tgat cats aint 10 toes down with Durant as much as they say. I'm certainly not the biggest Durant guy but I was right on this. nikkas really acted like having to play the Bucks or Sixers or Celtics was playing some juggernaut team when you were bringing out KD, solid defense and solid depth šŸ¤£ I like that hypothetical Nets roster's chances and always would have in this year's East...
 

fifth column

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I was right about the point that Durant with that Brooklyn roster pre-Suns trade, but after trading Kyrie, could've challenged Milwaukee, Philly, Boston...

if you really believe in Kevin Durant...

This trade from Brooklyn really revealed tgat cats aint 10 toes down with Durant as much as they say. I'm certainly not the biggest Durant guy but I was right on this. nikkas really acted like having to play the Bucks or Sixers or Celtics was playing some juggernaut team when you were bringing out KD, solid defense and solid depth šŸ¤£ I like that hypothetical Nets roster's chances and always would have in this year's East...
What was the solid depth that the Nets were bringing out to face Philly, Boston or Milwaukee without the Suns deal?
 

murksiderock

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What was the solid depth that the Nets were bringing out to face Philly, Boston or Milwaukee without the Suns deal?
I already posted it upthread...

So either cats believe Durant is great enough to elevate a solid supporting cast or yall think the East contenders are world beaters. Don't tell me, you're in the group where you think the East contenders are world beaters, just too much for a Durant-led team to handle?
 

fifth column

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I already posted it upthread...

So either cats believe Durant is great enough to elevate a solid supporting cast or yall think the East contenders are world beaters. Don't tell me, you're in the group where you think the East contenders are world beaters, just too much for a Durant-led team to handle?
Why canā€™t KD play on the team that he thinks maximizes his basketball skills like every other star? Are you trying to play 2k with real human beings?
 

Regular_P

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I already posted it upthread...

So either cats believe Durant is great enough to elevate a solid supporting cast or yall think the East contenders are world beaters. Don't tell me, you're in the group where you think the East contenders are world beaters, just too much for a Durant-led team to handle?
What Jimmy has done with the Heat is making KD look REALLY bad and nobody is talking about it. :sas2:

What's odd is KD looked like he had that kinda fight in him in 2021 when he almost dragged Brooklyn past the Bucks. Maybe that was all he had in him though and when it didn't work out that year, he said fukk it and wouldn't give that kinda effort again; like that was enough to satisfy himself.
 

Draje

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What was the solid depth that the Nets were bringing out to face Philly, Boston or Milwaukee without the Suns deal?

Why was Jimmy butler able to carry the injured Heat to a G7 against the Celtics and yet those same Celtics swept Durant decisively?

You cannot tell me that the Heat had a better roster than the Nets either especially with Lowry and Herro being injured.
 

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Why was Jimmy butler able to carry the injured Heat to a G7 against the Celtics and yet those same Celtics swept Durant decisively?

You cannot tell me that the Heat had a better roster than the Nets either especially with Lowry and Herro being injured.
Who were the coaches again?
 

fifth column

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What Jimmy has done with the Heat is making KD look REALLY bad and nobody is talking about it. :sas2:

What's odd is KD looked like he had that kinda fight in him in 2021 when he almost dragged Brooklyn past the Bucks. Maybe that was all he had in him though and when it didn't work out that year, he said fukk it and wouldn't give that kinda effort again; like that was enough to satisfy himself.
Or maybe the multiple injuries catching up :yeshrug:
 
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