The "Kobe was a sidekick" argument needs to stop

Dirty D

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Juggalo Fred said:
Kobe has 2 finals MVP awards in 7 finals played


ouch
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There's no shame in that at all. Most players never win a Finals MVP at all. Magic Johnson won 3 in 9 Finals appearances. Larry Bird had 2 in 5. Isaiah had 1 in 3.

This is part of what makes Jordan so incredible. 6 Finals appearances, 6 Finals MVP's. That's insanely difficult to pull off.
 
GreatestLaker

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Listen You Douchebags said:
Let's make this simple.

2000
Game 1
Shaq: 43 points, 19 rebounds, 4 assists, 21-for-31 shooting, 1-for-6 free throws
Kobe: 14 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 6-for-13 shooting, 2-for-2 free throws

Game 2
Shaq: 40 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 11-for-18 shooting, 18-for-39 free throws
Kobe: 2 points, 1 rebound, 4 assists, 1-for-3 shooting, no free throws. Kobe got injured and only played 9 minutes in this game. Lakers still won.

Game 3
Shaq: 33 points, 13 rebounds, 1 assist, 15-for-24 shooting, 3-for-13 free throws
Kobe: DNP due to ankle injury. Lakers lost this game after winning the first 2

Game 4
Shaq: 36 points, 21 rebounds, 1 assist, 13-for-25 shooting, 10-for-17 free throws
Kobe: 28 points, 4 rebounds, 5 assists, 14-for-27 shooting, no free throws. Overtime heroics to win the game for LA after Shaq fouled out.

Game 5
Shaq: 35 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 17-for-27 shooting, 1-for-6 free throws
Kobe: 8 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 4-for-20 shooting, no free throws

Game 6
Shaq: 41 points, 12 rebounds, 1 assist, 19-for-32 shooting, 3-for-12 free throws
Kobe: 26 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists, 8-for-27 shooting, 8-for-9 free throws

Series averages
Shaq: 38 ppg, 16.7 rpg, 2.3 apg, 61% shooting, 37% free throws
Kobe: 15.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 4.2 apg, 37% shooting, 91% free throws
Kobe excluding Game 2: 19ppg, 5.5 rpg, 4.3 apg, 37% shooting, 91% free throws

2000 Verdict: Clear-cut Sidekick

2001
Game 1
Shaq: 44 points, 20 rebounds, 5 assists, 17-for-28 shooting, 10-for-22 free throws
Kobe: 15 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 7-for-22 shooting, 1-for-1 free throws

Game 2
Shaq: 28 points, 20 rebounds, 9 assists, 12-for-19 shooting, 4-for-10 free throws
Kobe: 31 points, 8 rebounds, 6 assists, 11-for-23 shooting, 8-for-8 free throws

Game 3
Shaq: 30 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 11-for-20 shooting, 8-for-9 free throws
Kobe: 32 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 13-for-30 shooting, 6-for-6 free throws

Game 4
Shaq: 34 points, 14 rebounds, 5 assists, 13-for-25 shooting, 8-for-16 free throws
Kobe: 19 points, 10 rebounds, 9 assists, 6-for-13 shooting, 7-for-12 free throws

Game 5
Shaq: 29 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists, 10-for-18 shooting, 9-for-19 free throws
Kobe: 26 points, 12 rebounds, 6 assists, 7-for-18 shooting, 10-for-11 free throws

Series averages
Shaq: 33 ppg, 15.8 rpg, 4.8 apg, 57% shooting, 51% free throws
Kobe: 24.6 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 5.8 apg, 42% shooting, 84% free throws

2001 Verdict: Still a Sidekick.

2002
Game 1
Shaq: 36 points, 16 rebounds, 1 assist, 12-for-22 shooting, 12-for-21 free throws
Kobe: 22 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 6-for-16 shooting, 10-for-11 free throws

Game 2
Shaq: 40 points, 12 rebounds, 8 assists, 14-for-23 shooting, 12-for-14 free throws
Kobe: 24 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 9-for-15 shooting, 3-for-4 free throws

Game 3
Shaq: 35 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 12-for-19 shooting, 11-for-17 free throws
Kobe: 36 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists, 14-for-23 shooting, 7-for-10 free throws

Game 4
Shaq: 34 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists, 12-for-20 shooting, 10-for-16 free throws
Kobe: 25 points, 6 rebounds, 8 assists, 7-for-16 shooting, 9-for-11 free throws

Series averages
Shaq: 36.3 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 3.8 apg, 60% shooting, 66% free throws
Kobe: 26.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.3 apg, 51% shooting, 81% free throws

2002 Verdict: Still a Sidekick.

So in summary, Kobe got better in the Finals each year of the 3-peat, but did not once approach Shaq's level. In their last successful Finals together, Shaq averaged almost 10 points a game more than Kobe, despite Kobe having a GREAT Finals, and shooting only 3.5 shots less per game than him.

Shaq was incredible and any star would have killed to play with him. Part of the hate for Kobe in that phase of his career was that he had such a golden opportunity and didn't appreciate it at all. If Shaq stayed in LA he would not have had to wait until 2009 to get back to the Finals with Gasol/Bynum/Odom. The Lakers could have kept making Finals runs for the rest of the 2000's had they stayed together.
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Why only post stats from the finals? The real battles were out West. The finals were a cakewalk.

We were getting swept out of the playoffs before Kobe turned into a Star. Fact. Those teams didn't lack talent either.

Championships are a team accomplishment. So this whole thread is dumb to begin with.
 
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Skooby said:
Shaq wasn't in his prime when he was with Penny and he also ran into The Dream.

And what people miss when they mention the Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel years is that they ran into more experienced teams. Shaq was with the Lakers for 3 seasons before they won in 2000. In 97 and 98 they lost to Utah, who ended going to the Finals. In 99 they lost to the Spurs, who won the title. It wasn't like they was getting bounced out by bottom-feeders. They lost to the team that eventually went to the Finals/won the championship.

People also forget that the Lakers added Glen Rice, Ron Harper, Brian Shaw, and John Salley that off-season. They also brung back A.C. Green...veterans who won championships and solid players who knew their role. Van Exel and Eddie Jones wanted to be stars. That's what got them over the hump.
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THE POINT IS THAT SHAQ DOESNT WIN WITHOUT KOBE...PEOPLE NAMING MUFUCCAZ LIKE RAY ALLEN AND VINCE CARTER AS AN EASY REPLACEMENT FOR THREEPEAT, FORGETTING HOW IMPORTANT KOBE WAS ON BOTH ENDS....AND ON TOP OF THAT ACTIN LIKE LAKERS JUST BREEZED THRU COMPETITION, FORGETTING THOSE GRUELING 7 GAME SERIES' WE WENT THROUGH THAT WOULDA HANDS DOWN BEEN LOST WITOUT KOBES BRILLIANT PERFORMANCES. SOME OF THE ANTI-KOBE STUFF BEIN SAID HERE IS EMBARASSING.
 
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thereheis said:
lol @ these cats rewriting history...

Anyone who was born before 1990 knows that it was Shaqs team...everyone else was a wingman...including Kobe.

No one thought of Kobe as the team leader/go to guy between 2000-2004
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They were colead. Shaq was more dominant but thats more because of his position. I love Shaq but im not finna sit here and act like if I was on that Lakers team I wouldnt consider Kobe the leader, considering he was the one that actually worked hard and took the game seriously of the two.
 
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Sccit said:
THE POINT IS THAT SHAQ DOESNT WIN WITHOUT KOBE...PEOPLE NAMING MUFUCCAZ LIKE RAY ALLEN AND VINCE CARTER AS AN EASY REPLACEMENT FOR THREEPEAT, FORGETTING HOW IMPORTANT KOBE WAS ON BOTH ENDS....AND ON TOP OF THAT ACTIN LIKE LAKERS JUST BREEZED THRU COMPETITION, FORGETTING THOSE GRUELING 7 GAME SERIES' WE WENT THROUGH THAT WOULDA HANDS DOWN BEEN LOST WITOUT KOBES BRILLIANT PERFORMANCES. SOME OF THD ANTI-KOBE STUFF BEIN SAID HERE IS EMBARASSING.
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Shaq did win without Kobe :umad:
 
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