The "Kobe was a sidekick" argument needs to stop

[R=G]

AND HOW IS THAT GUNA STOP THE PISTONS FROM SCOIN EVERY TIME DOWN ON A SET PICK-AND-ROLL PLAY? U GOTA BE ONE OF THE SLOWER ONES, GODAMN.

You keep running back to that when you kept defending Kobe and slighting Shaq to make it appear as the Pistons had their number. Who's fault is it really? Was the Pistons just better or do you want to continue to blame Shaq and give Kobe another gay ass pass?

 

[R=G]

NAAH, HE SAID THAT WHILE KOBE WAS OUTPERFORMING HIM IN THE 2001 WC PLAYOFFS

You're on fukking crack, nygga

 

[Sccit]

The fact he was used as a closer shows it was 1b. Can you tell me another team (other than the Pistons) were the best player didnt get the ball at the end of the game?

Horry saving their asses? He hit a big shot. Props to the boy. But we dont say Paxson saved MJ do we? Or Kerr? Thats what great role players do. Come thru when you need them.



I disagree breh. Well, he was a better all around player as in great on offense and defense while Shaq was great on offense and inconsistent on defense. If thats what you mean, I agree. If you mean Kobe was better? Absolutely not.

WELL, U CAN THINK WHAT U WANT...BUT KOBE WAS ALREADY PLAYIN LIKE PRIME KOBE BY 2001. HAD SHAQ NOT HAD SENIORITY ON THE TEAM, KOBE WOULDA BEEN GLOBALLY RECOGNIZED AS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD, HANDS DOWN (AS HE WAS ALREADY BEIN CONSIDERED BY MANY)...IF U HAD HIM ON A TEAM LIKE THE NETS (OR PRETTY MUCH ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE WHERE SHAQ WASNT DEMANDIN THE BALL EVERY TRIP DOWN), HE'D BE AVERAGING 35 PPG AND CONSIDERED THE BEST SINCE JORDAN. LUCKY FOR THE LAKERS, KOBE WAS WILLIN TO PUT EGO ASIDE AND FEED SHAQ'S....IT WAS ONLY RIGHT, AS SHAQ WAS THE OLDER AND MORE EXPERIENCED PLAYER. BUT KOBE WAS ALREADY MORE SKILLED ON BOTH ENDS BY THEN. BY 2002, PHIL JACKSON WANTED TO RUN THE OFFENSE THROUGH KOBE, BUT SHAQ WOULDN'T ALLOW. HENCE THE BREAK-UP.

 

[Sccit]

You're on fukking crack, nygga

CRACK KILLS....TRY SOME

 

[Sccit]

You keep running back to that when you kept defending Kobe and slighting Shaq to make it appear as the Pistons had their number. Who's fault is it really? Was the Pistons just better or do you want to continue to blame Shaq and give Kobe another gay ass pass?

SO LETS JUST IGNORE DEFENSE SO THAT WE CAN CONVENIENTLY PLACE ALL THE BLAME ON KOBE


KILL YASELF CUZZ

 

[Everythingg]

Valid point..but that was a combo of Kobe being great/dynamic and Phil wanting to avoid putting Shaq on the free throw line near the end..not a slight to Shaq really. If teams are going to crowd the paint that 1) raises the probability shaq gets hacked AND 2) lessens the probability of a rebound and put-back. A lot of teams with great big men still look for something around the perimeter or mid-range so they have a chance with a couple seconds for a board/put-back or tip out. I think Shaq tipped it back out to Horry on that 3 against the Kings, for instance (could be wrong)...and the Spurs have gone to Manu/Parker at times etc.

In general (not saying you), I dont really understand the venom of Kobe fans thrown at Shaq and the other way around. If I had that combo on my team, Id be grateful as fukk for that time period and would probably feel a type of way about the team being broken up but wouldnt really blame one more than the other regardless. It was what it was..all good things come to an end.

The reason so much venom is thrown at Shaq is because he made fans choose between him and Kobe. Its easy to see why with all the laziness he showed with dealing with injuries and coming to camp out of shape. What happened when Kobe got the team? He played with broken fingers and separated shoulders.That coupled with people similar to the ones in this thread diminishing Kobe's impact,made Shaq receive that venom.

As well, the difference between the Spurs and Lakers was that Kobe was the closer though. Can you really say that about Ginobli or Parker?Im sure Pippen got to close a game or two but who was the closer?

Not that damn game...you know what the fukk talking about. The last minute 3 that SAVED their asses and won that game. The Blazer game was a big comeback game where Shaq hit that Alley DUNK and was running up the court going buck wild.

I dont know what you're talking about breh. On one hand you say Horry "saved them" for hitting a game-winning three.Then you say Paxson didnt save them for hitting a game-winning three. So how is it that Horry "saved their asses" by hitting a last minute three but Paxson didnt save Jordan's ass by hitting a lastminute three?

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

I MAY BE WRONG, BUT I DONT REMEMBER SHAQ EVER CALLING PENNY OR WADE THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD.

he has propped up and ripped all of them at different times..who knows what he really thinks tbh lol. what im saying is that using shaq's quote about kobe as evidence that shaq thought kobe was better than him isnt necessarily evidence of anything other than shaq just sayin shyt.

Asked on Tuesday if Wade is the best teammate he's ever played with, O'Neal responded: "I'd have to say yeah. Not just because of his playing. Just because of the type of person he is. Very humble. Listens. We haven't had an argument or even come close to having an argument. I'm not used to that coming from a 2-guard. We're on the same page and nobody has any hidden agendas."

Are those rumors of O'Neal mockingly calling Wade ''Wonder Boy'' toward the end of their tenure together true, and is that sticking with Wade? Maybe it's how O'Neal gushes over Bryant these days and never brings up the other two-guard with which he won a title.

Even Wednesday, O'Neal went as far as to mention Alonzo Mourning, Antoine Walker, Gary Payton, James Posey and Haslem as parts of his most vivid memories of the 2005-06 championship season.

During his almost two decades in the NBA he's fallen in love with Phil Jackson, Kobe Bryant, the Lakers, the Miami Heat, Pat Riley, Dwayne Wade, Penny Hardaway and LeBron James.

Now the big man has fallen hard for his new team, the Boston Celtics.

"This is a great team. The best team I've been on," said in an interview with WEEI in Boston.

look at this site too (a fukkin eyesore, i dont know who the hell compiled all of this) : http://www.shaqquotes.com/

so many contradictions with everyone except himself

“The Spurs are a great WNBA team.”

And he has been praising Pop and Duncan as all-time GOATs for years since. Never know with him.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

The reason so much venom is thrown at Shaq is because he made fans choose between him and Kobe. Its easy to see why with all the laziness he showed with dealing with injuries and coming to camp out of shape. What happened when Kobe got the team? He played with broken fingers and separated shoulders.That coupled with people similar to the ones in this thread diminishing Kobe's impact,made Shaq receive that venom.

As well, the difference between the Spurs and Lakers was that Kobe was the closer though. Can you really say that about Ginobli or Parker?Im sure Pippen got to close a game or two but who was the closer?



I dont know what you're talking about breh. On one hand you say Horry "saved them" for hitting a game-winning three.Then you say Paxson didnt save them for hitting a game-winning three. So how is it that Horry "saved their asses" by hitting a last minute three but Paxson didnt save Jordan's ass by hitting a lastminute three?

I dont necessarily disagree at all. Just saying going to a wing instead of a big in the crunch isnt all that foreign of a strategy. Im really not lowering one or raising the other..some people just use that "closer" label with Kobe/Shaq to put Kobe over Shaq..so while I can agree or respect the opinion that Kobe was the closer..I disagree when that becomes used as proof that Kobe > Shaq

 

[Da_Eggman]

Nah I ain't stopping fukk you

 

[Everythingg]

I dont necessarily disagree at all. Just saying going to a wing instead of a big in the crunch isnt all that foreign of a strategy. Im really not lowering one or raising the other..some people just use that "closer" label with Kobe/Shaq to put Kobe over Shaq..so while I can agree or respect the opinion that Kobe was the closer..I disagree when that becomes used as proof that Kobe > Shaq

Believe me breh, I wouldnt EVER say that Kobe was better than Shaq during their time together. At the same time I think the fact that he was the closer as well as him putting up numbers that resembled a first option shows that he was more than a sidekick. But I see we're not too far off in opinion

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Believe me breh, I wouldnt EVER say that Kobe was better than Shaq during their time together. At the same time I think the fact that he was the closer as well as him putting up numbers that resembled a first option shows that he was more than a sidekick. But I see we're not too far off in opinion

pretty much this. to objective basketball fans it could very well just come down to how strongly you believe in "inside-out" offense or not at the end of the day. they both could do stuff that very few or no one else could do on the court so

 

[Sccit]

he has propped up and ripped all of them at different times..who knows what he really thinks tbh lol. what im saying is that using shaq's quote about kobe as evidence that shaq thought kobe was better than him isnt necessarily evidence of anything other than shaq just sayin shyt.







look at this site too (a fukkin eyesore, i dont know who the hell compiled all of this) : http://www.shaqquotes.com/

so many contradictions with everyone except himself



And he has been praising Pop and Duncan as all-time GOATs for years since. Never know with him.

NO DOUBT SHAQ IS A CLOWN WHO SAID A LOT OF BS....BUT WHEN HE CALLED KOBE THE BEST IN THE WORLD IN 01, IT WASNT A STRETCH

 

[The Goodz]

OP said why couldn't shaq make champs out of Penny and Eddie Jones, clearly dismissing it was the MJ era

 

[Consumed]

It's a deflection because you say that as if it refutes the facts that Shaq was the number one option who the opposing team tailored their defense around controlling. Look, our debate here is whether or not Kobe was the sidekick. We aren't debating how good Kobe was. Your opinion of how good you think Kobe was is irrelevant to the role that he played on the team. Shaq was the man on that Lakers team regardless of how good you want to say that Kobe was.

It's not a valid rebuttal because the 2008 wcf has nothing to do with the role that Kobe played during the first 3peat. I've illustrated how Shaq was the man of that team and you haven't refuted any of that. You ignore the facts regarding the roles that Shaq and Kobe played and deflect by trying to make this about selectively chosen performances. "oh what about this series, what about all the times Kobe outplayed Shaq?" None of that refutes my argument. Popped outplayed Mike sometimes, that didn't change the dynamic of their roles on the team. Regardless of what Kobe did against the Spurs. The Lakers were built around Shaq. Shaq was the 1st option. Shaq was the main concern and focus of the opposing team.

So basically you're just overly sensitive, complaining about terminology. Maybe some people use "sidekick" disrespectfully or demeaning, but however you slice it Shaq was the main man and Kobe was the number 2. If they're people tryna hate and belittle Kobe's contributions then you're on the other side because you're trying to pretty it up in Kobe's favor to the point you're being disingenuous.

Nothing said in this thread really bothers me per say. Entire reason i made an account on this forum or any sports related site is to have discussions just like this. Seems like you're the one agitated by anything being said here, I'm honestly enjoying this. Cool, that's what's up. I'm not trying to bother you. I talk shyt but I can take it just the same. Not agitated in the least. I have no problem schooling Kobe fans

See, I'm not refuting the fact that Shaq was the most dominant player in the game or opposition was most concerned with stopping him. Im simply emphasizing the fact that Kobe's role in that offense was so enormous that he played like a primary option especially when Shaq was struggling with foul trouble or they needed to closeout a game. The man was taking twenty shots a game. What Robin does that? Who was he deferring to? Since he was able to control a game in an entirely different manner than Shaq, from the perimeter where he was dominant, it allowed him to control the ball to an absurd degree that isn't befitting of a mere sidekick. Kobe actually did see doubles from help defenders on the perimeter. He faced defenses that kept multiple eyes on him when the ball was in his hands. But what made him dangerous as a primary ball handler wasn't just the scoring, but his ability to set others up as well and make teams pay one way or the other no matter what they committed to stopping. He led the team in assists in that stretch. He created opportunities for others with penetration which includes Shaq. Together they formed the best inside out duo this game may ever see. I don't see the point in separating the two with random classifications like Batman & Robin. More like Batman and Superman.

Not really being sensitive here, I'd react the same to any of the following examples in the previous post: Durant/WB, Oscar/Kareem, Dr J/Malone, even Penny/Shaq in 1996. I just don't think it's possible to have a dominant player be a Robin to another. They carry too much impact on the outcome of a game to be considered that.


Pippen never remotely approached Jordan as a scorer or general offensive player though, never a dominant scorer and a much different situation than Kobe/Shaq where it was fitting for them to alternate primary scoring roles given the situation of the game and the opposing defensive gameplan.

 

[The Goodz]

Kobe made the finals another THREE straight times without Shaq. Only reason they didnt win 3 straight its cuz fakkit ass Celtics had to build a super team

and the only reason why Kobe went to the finals is because the lakers needed to successfully pull off one of the most controversial trades in NBA history after getting that work by a Canadian two years straight in the first round of the postseason, and missed the playoffs one year. #FACTSONLY


So tell me with a straight face Pau's arrival didn't make Kobe relevant in the league again.

And didn't the lakers try to build a super team with Kobe, TWICE???

Get two super teams built and not win a 'ship brehs