barese

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I didn't know that Zohran Mamdani is so charismatic, that he's the son of Mira Nair, his father an Indian Muslim and that they gave Zohran the middle name after Kwame Nkrumah.

New York would be so cool if you could somehow vote him in lol
 

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Emma’s father is a Partner at Wilmer Hale :dahell:


:wow:
Both her parents are/were big time lawyers. I believe her sister is at top tier firm as well. It's why I feel Emma over compensates in her liberal ideology.

I feel like the majority report joked because some house in Emma's family was used for some period piece movie and Emma has a cameo in it. :russ:
 

wire28

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Both her parents are/were big time lawyers. I believe her sister is at top tier firm as well. It's why I feel Emma over compensates in her liberal ideology.

I feel like the majority report joked because some house in Emma's family was used for some period piece movie and Emma has a cameo in it. :russ:
So shes basically in her rebellion phase of white girl life :wow:
 

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So shes basically in her rebellion phase of white girl life :wow:
Both her parents are/were big time lawyers. I believe her sister is at top tier firm as well. It's why I feel Emma over compensates in her liberal ideology.

I feel like the majority report joked because some house in Emma's family was used for some period piece movie and Emma has a cameo in it. :russ:
She’s on the Kasparian speed run and she doesn’t even know it :wow:
 

storyteller

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I didn't know that Zohran Mamdani is so charismatic, that he's the son of Mira Nair, his father an Indian Muslim and that they gave Zohran the middle name after Kwame Nkrumah.

New York would be so cool if you could somehow vote him in lol

Overcoming Cuomo's name recognition is gonna be tough. Still, I've been pleasantly surprised at Zohran pushing past the batch of other lefties who threw their names in and his ability to hit fundraising targets. It's an uphill battle, but you never know :manny:
 

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Overcoming Cuomo's name recognition is gonna be tough. Still, I've been pleasantly surprised at Zohran pushing past the batch of other lefties who threw their names in and his ability to hit fundraising targets. It's an uphill battle, but you never know :manny:
Cuomo unfortunately is going to win due to name recognition and low informational voters that don't understand that NYS fall off is connected to cuomo
 

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Its still bad faith IMO.

Frankly they’re more afraid of developers making money than making shyt. It’s this weird anti-capitalist nonsense that avoids the issue at hand.
It's not bad faith just because they disagree with your worldview. Particularly when virtually every critic of Abundance points out that it has some merit, but is being oversold. Even the authors accept the critiques from these people and concede some of their points. This whole piece is worth a read, but my main point for sharing (beyond showing another example of how this Abundance thing isn't a novel idea, but used to come from Republicans and Libertarians), is that David Dayen and Derek Thompson openly debate the merits of the topic and concede points to each other.


Here was my one question: “In 2006, over 2 million units of housing were built, and after that we entered the biggest depression in modern homebuilding history. Single-family homes didn’t rebound in construction for more than a decade, and multifamily, which wasn’t really involved in the bubble, didn’t recover for five years. I know you don’t believe that there were no zoning rules in 2006, and after 2006 there was a swarm of them. What happened was we had a housing bubble collapse, brought on by deregulating housing finance, which was spurred by an abundance agenda known as George W. Bush’s ‘ownership society.’ How does that factor into your analysis? What lessons should we draw from what happened in the recent past when abundance was prioritized over regulatory slowness or regulatory safeguards, even ones that on the surface have little to do with building, and the results were disastrous?”

Thompson replied that the question was partially fair and partially unfair. He agreed that the housing market is more complicated than local building rules, which was a pretty wild concession given how that’s kind of the entire book. But, he said, he never called for lax lending standards, and he “would not characterize the trigger of the Great Recession as an abundance agenda as we would define it.”

I responded, much to the chagrin of the show producers who wanted to keep things moving, that Thompson’s ends matched George W. Bush’s: They both wanted more people to afford housing. What, I asked, if that common goal is distorted in ways that cause serious dislocations? Again, Thompson conceded a big bite of the argument. “Could we see deregulation in various markets leading to outcomes that are undesirable? Yes.” But he said that housing was so unaffordable today that we have to try something, and we should not be afraid of “allowing markets to flourish” just because we had a housing-fueled Great Recession.

So now I think I have to sharpen my point, and get pulled into this debate. Because what caused the financial crisis is actually, I think, critical for understanding the dividing lines between adherents of abundance and their critics.
 

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It's not bad faith just because they disagree with your worldview. Particularly when virtually every critic of Abundance points out that it has some merit, but is being oversold. Even the authors accept the critiques from these people and concede some of their points. This whole piece is worth a read, but my main point for sharing (beyond showing another example of how this Abundance thing isn't a novel idea, but used to come from Republicans and Libertarians), is that David Dayen and Derek Thompson openly debate the merits of the topic and concede points to each other.

I just read this ironically. Again…he’s more focused on financial regulation not DEVELOPMENT regulation of lot sizes, zoning, parking minimums, environmental reviews etc. Dayen is more focused on regulating financiers… not building shyt. He has no solutions to build shyt only to latch onto his bailiwick of corporate monopolies and centralized power. People don’t give a fukk any more. They want more housing thats cheaper and more attainable in areas they want to live in.

Notice, Dayen only mentions single family homes. He doesn’t mention the recent incentives for apartments and condos that have rapidly added density to urban cores.

NONE of these critiques are reformed focused and they are obstacles to progress when their own niche views have failed.

Letting developers make more money is preferable to nothing being built. This magical idea that the US system is gonna just flip a switch on government housing is more far fetched than it is for loosening up rules for builders to build with fewer restrictions of contracting limitations and other mandates.
 

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I just read this ironically. Again…he’s more focused on financial regulation not DEVELOPMENT regulation of lot sizes, zoning, parking minimums, environmental reviews etc. Dayen is more focused on regulating financiers… not building shyt. He has no solutions to build shyt only to latch onto his bailiwick of corporate monopolies and centralized power. People don’t give a fukk any more. They want more housing thats cheaper and more attainable in areas they want to live in.

Notice, Dayen only mentions single family homes. He doesn’t mention the recent incentives for apartments and condos that have rapidly added density to urban cores.

NONE of these critiques are reformed focused and they are obstacles to progress when their own niche views have failed.

Letting developers make more money is preferable to nothing being built. This magical idea that the US system is gonna just flip a switch on government housing is more far fetched than it is for loosening up rules for builders to build with fewer restrictions of contracting limitations and other mandates.
I absolutely disagree with the bolded, any expansion of housing should be planned with restrictions. In fact if we had more restrictions we wouldn't be where we are today. Sprawl and wasted space is why we are here today, so many city town centers are no longer walkable due to towns and cities getting rid of limitations that allowed sprawl and space to get out of control. We don't need an "expansion" of the housing market we need a reorganization of the housing market. We need less cities built like Florida cities and Houston and more built like nyc. There needs to be more restrictions on developers it shouldn't be about making much money as possible. This is why housing should be a government solution not private
 

storyteller

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I just read this ironically. Again…he’s more focused on financial regulation not DEVELOPMENT regulation of lot sizes, zoning, parking minimums, environmental reviews etc. Dayen is more focused on regulating financiers… not building shyt. He has no solutions to build shyt only to latch onto his bailiwick of corporate monopolies and centralized power. People don’t give a fukk any more. They want more housing thats cheaper and more attainable in areas they want to live in.
This kinda gets to the heart of the problem. This is just a Libertarian argument if you can't acknowledge that there is risk that comes with deregulation. He's using the Great Recession and the housing deregulation leading up to it as an example of risks.

He quite literally acknowledges that there are places where deregulation can help open up "choke points" but isn't limiting his solutions to deregulation because that's failed before since it didn't do enough to shield purchasers from profit motives here:
The Klein-Thompson view is that Democrats clogged the building channel with unnecessary or just burdensome rules. My view is that powerful forces profit off choke points and want them to remain. Joe Weisenthal had a particularly insightful explanation of this dynamic, noting that “any impulse to abundantly build out less profitable lines of business undoubtedly strikes at the heart of how American capitalism works.” Even in housing this is true, as homebuilder cartels have been building less and making more money by hoarding land.

These viewpoints can be complementary, but only with open eyes. If we want to build to productive ends, building power to take down finance and monopoly is the best way to make that happen. The Biden administration’s attempt to do that was uneven and too neglectful of the short term, but directionally correct.


I'm italicizing a key point here. These People aren't rejecting the abundance agenda. They're saying not to slip into Libertarian levels with this shyt. "Build, Baby, Build" without a critique of power is literally the Cato Institute shyt.
Notice, Dayen only mentions single family homes. He doesn’t mention the recent incentives for apartments and condos that have rapidly added density to urban cores.

NONE of these critiques are reformed focused and they are obstacles to progress when their own niche views have failed.
See, this is where you seem to be chasing a fight instead of reading with any kind of open mind. I'm quoting Dayen's conclusion that Abundance and Anti-monopoly strategies can be married for a more robust solution, and you say there's no reform focus and that he's laying out "obstacles to progress."

Warning not to go full Libertarian with this shyt isn't the same as abandoning the concept altogether. Especially when he gives a very real example of the dangers of Deregulation that one of the literal authors of the Abundance Agenda acknowledged.
Letting developers make more money is preferable to nothing being built. This magical idea that the US system is gonna just flip a switch on government housing is more far fetched than it is for loosening up rules for builders to build with fewer restrictions of contracting limitations and other mandates.
Ehhh what? That article is focused on the risks of unfettered Deregulation from a historical context. It's not talking about magical government housing, you're just throwing out a strawman. To quote Dayen:
Substituting that with a lens that simply preferences action is dangerous, precisely because what we call deregulation really just shifts regulation (that is, the rules of how markets operate) from government to private hands. During the housing bubble, bankers structured the market to their own ends, and it resulted in catastrophe.
 

storyteller

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I absolutely disagree with the bolded, any expansion of housing should be planned with restrictions. In fact if we had more restrictions we wouldn't be where we are today. Sprawl and wasted space is why we are here today, so many city town centers are no longer walkable due to towns and cities getting rid of limitations that allowed sprawl and space to get out of control. We don't need an "expansion" of the housing market we need a reorganization of the housing market. We need less cities built like Florida cities and Houston and more built like nyc. There needs to be more restrictions on developers it shouldn't be about making much money as possible. This is why housing should be a government solution not private
That's more aligned to Ben Burgis than David Dayen imo. I'm sure his prescriptions would make some heads explode :mjlol:

 
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