MischievousMonkey
Gor bu dëgër
Will you admit that your OP and initial claim is wrong, even if it is an uncomfortable truth for you? You should lead by example.
The Moors literally ruled southern spain and that was it
- Thread starter TheFireCar
- Start date
North and Central is wack Cordoba, Seville, Barcelona, Malaga, Ibiza, Mallorca, Canary Islands Tenerife is all popping I promise you
cornercommission2k12
so this were u dudes went
Although I can agree that some versions of history needs revision let us remember the only reason for afrocentrism was a social construct called Jim crow that made it a point to teach that black people never contributed anything to civilization and our teachers were using that framework of teaching to restore black african pride. Don't really appreciate anyone attempting to make them detrimental to African history when even the basics of our history was relatively new due to the intended scientific and historical racism that was taking place throughout academia. It's on us to clear some things up and although some things that were taught were incorrect their intentions were pure and they deserve respect for at least creating a template for us to build upon and for the fact they were fighting to restore our pride. So fukk all this attitude as if they were some kind of hindrance to us.
From a book I need to finish about the Moors, this paragraph was cold to me. Especially the bolded.
Such was the condition of Spain when the Mussulman approached her borders. A corrupt aristocracy divided the land among themselves; the great estates were tilled by a wretched and hopeless race of serfs; the citizen classes were ruined. On the other side of the straits of Gibraltar were the soldiers of Islam, all hardy warriors, fired with the fervour of a new faith, bred to arms from their childhood, simple and rude in their life, and eager to plunder the rich lands of the infidels. Between two such peoples there could be no doubt as to the issue of the fight; but to remove the possibility of doubt, treachery came to the aid of the invaders.
Such was the condition of Spain when the Mussulman approached her borders. A corrupt aristocracy divided the land among themselves; the great estates were tilled by a wretched and hopeless race of serfs; the citizen classes were ruined. On the other side of the straits of Gibraltar were the soldiers of Islam, all hardy warriors, fired with the fervour of a new faith, bred to arms from their childhood, simple and rude in their life, and eager to plunder the rich lands of the infidels. Between two such peoples there could be no doubt as to the issue of the fight; but to remove the possibility of doubt, treachery came to the aid of the invaders.
Post a link to that breh, whoever wrote that I like his/her way with words.
Few people realize that Spain has had all types of people invade and settle there. The Celtiberians were Celtics, then came the Phoenicians and Carthaginians (also Africans), after that the Romans, then the Visigoths who were Germanic, and then finally the Moors before the Spaniards of the North retook the country and led into Christopher Colombus.
Alot of people also dont know that the first "World War" was actually Spain and Portugal declaring a revenge war on Islam anywhere on the planet that led to the Portugese expeditions into Africa and contacts with West African and Central African forest kingdoms to get around the Moors. They both even went as far Brunei and the Phillipines to have naval battles with the sultans in these areas. Meanwhile the Spanish went West looking for a different route to India specifically cause.... they werent trying to pay the Moors any tax to trade goods in the Mediterranean.
The Moors and Iberians beefing thus indirectly led to the conquest of the Americas. That piece of history, along with The Crusades in general has always fascinated me. How OP can say that the Moors werent a factor in Europe isnt just fukking unbelievably stupid and wrong, its almost dangerous.
Just gonna leave this hereThere is zero chance of them being “Caucasian” for three reasons.
There are at least three primary source artifacts that provide evidence that the Moors were black people. Even though, Europe - outside of the Catholic church and the waning Byzantine Empire - was barely literate. Alfonso X’s Cantigas de Santa Maria (which was primarily about white Spaniards) described the moors as black. It also depicted Moors. The Song of Roland was an epic poem by Charlemagne detailing the Francs’ defeat of Moorish forces and illustrated the battles. Finally, a mural in France that shows the death of Ysore via a lance to the throat. Ysore, the Giant, was the Saracen (Arab no less) who was controlling areas of Portugal and Sicily until his defeat by the French William of Orange. All three of these were drafted while the Moors still ruled in parts of Europe. So, unlike the Orientalist period later in Europe, these are accurate to how these Europeans saw the Moors… as black people be they African or Arab.
- Caucasian literally means having come from the Caucus Mountains. No, they did not.
- Caucasian as a Euphemism for “white Europeans” does not work either because they came from Africa and entered Europe.
- Caucasian as a euphemism for black people in North Africa whom white scholarly types try to claim as Caucasian even though they are black people is the absurdity of racism. The indigenous populations of North Africa were (and still are) black people. The Arabs from Western Asian were primarily black as well but ethnically different and religiously different.
From the Cantigas de Santa Maria. Moors playing “chess.” Note, even the instrument they are playing is African. So, there is no way for Europeans who had not encountered Africans to literally depict that stringed instrument that is not only still played throughout the continent but dates to the Kemety period at the very least.
In the Cantigas, Alfonso X wrote they were as black as cooking pans.
Onward to the Song of Roland in which Charlemagne says they were as black as ink and melted pitch.
Ysore being killed by the French William of Orange.
So, essentially the Europeans who encountered them… depicted the Moors from their European viewpoint in descriptive literature as well as in artwork.
Moreover, by 1243, an early Spanish history book “De Rubus Hispanaie” described invading Ummayad Moors in this primary source account thusly:
The men were dressed in scarlet, and the reigns of their horses were as fire; their faces were as black as pitch – even the finest man among them was jet black. Their eyes glowed under their headdresses; they rode swiftly as if their horses were leopards; they were like wolves in the night.
'Viri exercitus in coccineis et equorum ignee sunt abene et eorum facies ut nigredo; uultus gloria quasi olle et eorum oculi uelat ignis; uelocior pardis miles eius et lupo crudelior uespertino.' III, XXII. Source: https://etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/8095/1/Kusi-Obodum18PhD.pdf
Why centuries later this is being debated as theoretical versus literal speaks to the racism that attempts to whiten North Africa, and ignore the waves of non-Africans/non-blacks who settled the coast of North Africa be it Greeks, Romans, Vandals, Turks, Ottomans, and even among the Arabs in order to proclaim that North Africa is/was not black. It is an attempt to make indigenous a phenotype that was not black to North Africa. History, archeology, genetics, linguistics does not support such a ruse. To be an indigenous African is to be black and that goes for North, South, East, Central, and West Africa. It is science that sets the paradigm because even the oldest human remains in North Africa are always black people. So, when later Greeks and Romans began describing various North Africans based on variations of black and brown. No one should be surprised.
Even before 711 AD, the Romans had been writing of the indigenous populations of North Africa, and using terms such as Nigritae (which became a color but really relates to people on the Niger River and etymologically is “big river” people) and Mauri/Mauros which are Latin-Greek words linguistically tied to the color black, even beyond describing the “Moors/Moros” proper. So, the entire nation of Mauritania is Greco-Roman for “black land” from a linguistic etymology. So, the Moors were described and depicted as Africans because that is who they were having come from their own homeland that despite foreigners being in North Africa, North Africa was still African and that always means black people. Any non-black today in North African can be shown genetically to be of mixed ancestry and often the “whitest” ones have the least African genes.
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@Houston911 Please check OP's post history as it pertains to race and you'll see what time he's on. He's obviously a cac from 4cac.
Gritsngravy
Superstar
What is black people
See below. If the links below aren't legit, the author is Stanley Lane Poole, The Moors in Spain.
The Moors in Spain by Stanley Lane-Poole
Free kindle book and epub digitized and proofread by volunteers.
While I don't care about the Moors or the muslim conquest of Spain with the Umayyad Caliphate, how is this a small part.
Those weren't the Moors, they weren't independent. This territory was a part of the Islamic caliphate, and ultimately subject to whichever sand cac was the caliph of Baghdad at any particular time. It wasn't until a couple of centuries later that the Islamic caliphate disintegrated, and the Almoravids (or the Moors, as they are also called) finally became an independent state
This below is the actual Almoravid or Moorish empire:
Good looks
livindajetlife
Superstar
I would say us but I don’t know you, but me, I’m a black man
Cat piss martini
Veteran
antonio: dad you know anything about the moors 
dad: our skin is darker because of native american blood!
antonio:
dad: and the kinky hair is a sicilian trait....cicily is closer to the sun!
antonio:
dad: who have you talked to in the family!!!
antonio:
dad: dont bring up the moors.....it's a gawd damn sin it is!
dad: your great great grandmother was no nikka!!!!
dad: so what the pope prays to a black madonna....so what???
antonio: i'm on this website called the coli.
dad: they are getting your info to kill you.....cant trust those people.
dad: our skin is darker because of native american blood!
antonio:
dad: and the kinky hair is a sicilian trait....cicily is closer to the sun!
antonio:
dad: who have you talked to in the family!!!
antonio:
dad: dont bring up the moors.....it's a gawd damn sin it is!
dad: your great great grandmother was no nikka!!!!
dad: so what the pope prays to a black madonna....so what???
antonio: i'm on this website called the coli.
dad: they are getting your info to kill you.....cant trust those people.
Henri Christophe
Son Of Afrika
Amo Husserl
All Star
With all the evidence there is on the subject, this wasn't the hill to die on.