The Myth of the 'War' Between Science and Religion

[Brown_Pride]

The government is the Constitution. That text sets the organization, behavior and restrictions of the government. It's a social contract that yields power from the people to the government.

Bad example on your part I would think. Religious people get their SPIRITUALITY and, morality along with other aspects of society from specific religious texts or people who interpret those texts. That's what a religion is, otherwise you're talking about deism.

see but there in rests the problem. The continual draw to peg spirituality and religion into the same little box or worse yet treat them as the same thing.

Our constitution says certain things, for instance.
All men are created equal.
That was(is) resoundingly not true nor did that ideal play out in actuality. Why? because as you so aptly noticed, "people who interpret those texts" did so with an agenda that rested outside of the intentions of that text.

The founding documents of our nation are a damn near perfect analogy to what has happened with religious text.

The underlining ideals and system within the text are noble, what has been done with them is not. Again, man tends to jack things up, IMHO it's our nature. Thousands of years of survival of the fittest has ensure that we're all decedents of the most murderous, conniving, viscous, self serving gene pool humanity has had to offer, OF COURSE we're going to corrupt shyt.

 

[Type Username Here]

see but there in rests the problem. The continual draw to peg spirituality and religion into the same little box or worse yet treat them as the same thing.

They are the same thing. For example, is your spirituality tailored around Christian spirituality or paganism? Do you have spiritual encounters with Hindi gods? Do you pray to Zeus or Odin?

Your spirituality is defined by the text of your religion. The fact that you practice cognitive dissonance with your holy text only goes on to prove my first post in this thread.

Our constitution says certain things, for instance.
All men are created equal.
That was(is) resoundingly not true nor did that ideal play out in actuality. Why? because as you so aptly noticed, "people who interpret those texts" did so with an agenda that rested outside of the intentions of that text.

The founding documents of our nation are a damn near perfect analogy to what has happened with religious text.

It's not damn near the perfect analogy, it is the perfect analogy. Both are texts written by men, at times very vague and barbaric, at times wise and precise, which seek to provide a social structure. But no one pretends the Constitution is written by prophets or disciples of God (no one sane anyway) and the Constitution is precisely given the clause to have its text changed.

The underlining ideals and system within the text are noble, what has been done with them is not. Again, man tends to jack things up, IMHO it's our nature. Thousands of years of survival of the fittest has ensure that we're all decedents of the most murderous, conniving, viscous, self serving gene pool humanity has had to offer, OF COURSE we're going to corrupt shyt.

Yes, but the people who wrote those texts aren't corrupt or had no other motives? I don't understand why your skepticism stops before that point.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

What is supernatural about the texts?

How they came to be. Some of them defy rational explanation so I withhold judgment until further evidence is supplied.​

 

[Fervid]

They are the same thing. For example, is your spirituality tailored around Christian spirituality or paganism? Do you have spiritual encounters with Hindi gods? Do you pray to Zeus or Odin?

Your spirituality is defined by the text of your religion. The fact that you practice cognitive dissonance with your holy text only goes on to prove my first post in this thread.



It's not damn near the perfect analogy, it is the perfect analogy. Both are texts written by men, at times very vague and barbaric, at times wise and precise, which seek to provide a social structure. But no one pretends the Constitution is written by prophets or disciples of God (no one sane anyway) and the Constitution is precisely given the clause to have its text changed.



Yes, but the people who wrote those texts aren't corrupt or had no other motives? I don't understand why your skepticism stops before that point.

Liar!!!1 Jesus wrote the Constitution.

 

[Type Username Here]

How they came to be. Some of them defy rational explanation so I withhold judgment until further evidence is supplied.​

Uh huh. So the rational explanation of a person or group of people passing stories or writing it down is to be dismissed as a natural act?

Can't you make the same claim for various religions besides Christianity? Hinduism predates Judeo-Christian beliefs. Polytheism, Idol worship, paganism and animism predate Judeo-Christian texts while at the same time having direct conflicts in belief systems and structures.

Yet for some odd reason you again only defend Judeo-Christian texts as true and supernatural (shocking).

 

[tru_m.a.c]

Where religion went wrong is that it attempted to lay claim facts and universal truth which is wrong

So in sentence two you state nobody has all the answers. And then in sentence 5 you claim that religion was wrong claiming it had all the answers.

If you don't have all the answers, nobody has all the answers, and religion cannot provide the universal truth or lay claim to facts, then why do you continue to restrict yourself to one specific spiritual path sir.

The issue at hand now is you have one group who loves to know that they don't know getting upset at another group claiming they do know by saying "we know you don't know you just dont' know it". Which i have no real problem with to be honest. What I do have a problem with is when people come at belief (namely mine and many people like me) claiming to know i'm wrong when they themselves thrive in not knowing...

Hmmm seems like my mere anecdotes were a clear example of this being portrayed by a pastor. But it doesn't count because of what again?

Dude you're not fukkn spiritual lol. Stop using these generic ass terms. You are specifically a Christian spiritual. You DO NOT feel a spiritual connection to the Vedas. Once you realize WHY that is, you'll realize WHY you're entire stance is disingenuous.

 

[tmonster]

Liar!!!1 Jesus wrote the Constitution.

plenty of evidence to support that

*checkmate*

 

[Type Username Here]

So in sentence two you state nobody has all the answers. And then in sentence 5 you claim that religion was wrong claiming it had all the answers.

If you don't have all the answers, nobody has all the answers, and religion cannot provide the universal truth or lay claim to facts, then why do you continue to restrict yourself to one specific spiritual path sir.



Hmmm seems like my mere anecdotes were a clear example of this being portrayed by a pastor. But it doesn't count because of what again?

Dude you're not fukkn spiritual lol. Stop using these generic ass terms. You are specifically a Christian spiritual. You DO NOT feel a spiritual connection to the Vedas. Once you realize WHY that is, you'll realize WHY you're entire stance is disingenuous.

I'm saying though. It always boils down to this with religious people: other religions say and have done the same thing, sometimes religions MUCH older and that conflict directly with yours.

Don't tell me it's not about the text when your spirituality is based on the text.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Uh huh. So the rational explanation of a person or group of people passing stories or writing it down is to be dismissed as a natural act?

Not the actual passing of the stories, but the uniformity.​

Can't you make the same claim for various religions besides Christianity?

I did

Some of them defy rational explanation

Yet for some odd reason you again only defend Judeo-Christian texts as true and supernatural (shocking).

Nowhere in this thread did I state anything about only Judeo-Christian texts being 'true and supernatural'.

Are you paying attention to the thread or just trying to argue with me......as usual?

​

 

[Brown_Pride]

They are the same thing. For example, is your spirituality tailored around Christian spirituality or paganism? Do you have spiritual encounters with Hindi gods? Do you pray to Zeus or Odin?

Religion is the structure around which spirituality is practiced, they go hand in hand but are NOT the same thing.

Your spirituality is defined by the text of your religion. The fact that you practice cognitive dissonance with your holy text only goes on to prove my first post in this thread.

Spirituality is defined by your belief in thing(s) spiritual. My text only lends guidance as to how I might go about understanding and becoming closer with those spiritual things.

It's not damn near the perfect analogy, it is the perfect analogy. Both are texts written by men, at times very vague and barbaric, at times wise and precise, which seek to provide a social structure.

Yes they were both written by men but only one with a direct reference to divine/supernatural influence. Outside of that, yes, you are correct. Also one is a secular document while one is not. You're missing the point as to what can be done with good intentions in the wrong hands...

But no one pretends the Constitution is written by prophets or disciples of God (no one sane anyway) and the Constitution is precisely given the clause to have its text changed.

Yup. And even still how often does the constitution get shyt on? Again the point being even a reasonably well structured document WITH the ability to have its text changed can/will fall prey to overly ambitious men.

Yes, but the people who wrote those texts aren't corrupt or had no other motives? I don't understand why your skepticism stops before that point.

Who said it doesn't? I know I didn't. Hell quite to the contrary I believe, simply based on who king james was and what he did, that some funny shyt may have been jabbed in there. There's a reason I appeal to a higher power prior to attempting to read the bible.
There is a sin outlined in the bible concerning changing the text of "the word of god". If the rule is there it must have been broken, otherwise why the need for the rule? It would be the ONE rule in the bible no one ever broke? Not likely. You must read all text with a healthy dose of skepticism and seek guidance as to what is and is not 100% true.

FOr instance. Texas wants to put out some pretty shady ass history books. Does that mean everything int he history books is incorrect? I'd hope not. If someone wants to truly read and understand history using those books then they need to apply more than just reading skills.

 

[Brown_Pride]

So in sentence two you state nobody has all the answers. And then in sentence 5 you claim that religion was wrong claiming it had all the answers.

If you don't have all the answers, nobody has all the answers, and religion cannot provide the universal truth or lay claim to facts, then why do you continue to restrict yourself to one specific spiritual path sir.

for the same reason you do. Faith/belief that the path i've chosen is the correct one. You don't deny that the path your on doesn't have the answer, you'd most likely admit you're seeking to get answers, as am I. We just go about seeking those answer in different ways.

Hmmm seems like my mere anecdotes were a clear example of this being portrayed by a pastor. But it doesn't count because of what again?

for the same reason(s) things don't apply to a scientist studying happy thoughts and their effects on water crystals. One person, does not speak for all people. AND People are often wrong.

Dude you're not fukkn spiritual lol. Stop using these generic ass terms. You are specifically a Christian spiritual. You DO NOT feel a spiritual connection to the Vedas. Once you realize WHY that is, you'll realize WHY you're entire stance is disingenuous.

Never argued i wasn't a "Christian Spiritual". But to specifically define what I believe in...
1. I believe JC is the son of God
2. I believe he died for my sins.
3. I believe his death paved the way for me to gain eternal salvation.


Not sure how that makes my stance disingenuous...

 

[tmonster]

I agree, but what happened in Europe was then exported to the rest of the world. The way of thinking, the way of separating secular vs. religion, that's what I'm getting at.

Everyone is Westernized, even the religious fanatics who claim to be at war with the West

I wonder who started that? Is xenophobia espoused in the bible as tenet proper christianhood?

 

[tmonster]

Can science confirm 'justice' or 'love'?



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yes, it is already accepted as the authority on both

 

[Brown_Pride]

Are you paying attention to the thread or just trying to argue with me......as usual?

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I sense a lot of this.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

I sense a lot of this.

Meh, comes with the territory. They don't quite understand how someone could be a non-theist yet still find religion fascinating and beneficial to humanity.​