Essential The Official Football (Soccer) Thread - The Slotification of Liverpool is nearly complete

[KOTK]

I realized that

You know who got some potential tho? 'dat Bundesliga

Their biggest club gave Mario Gomez a standing ovation last week. Kagawa and Sahin haven't set the world alight. I don't expect Rob Lewis too either. PSG might really buy Sam Nash for the full £25m

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

It's a global crisis, not a domestic crisis.

Yup, defenders are shyt as well now days.

PL defending is at a alltime low and has been gradually gettin worse the past couple of seasons. All the best defenders all seem to be over 30 and injury prone with the exception of Kompany, who hasnt been as good as he was last season either.

Apart from Jags i think the rest of the English CB's who have been around for a while now arent up to much,. I dont even know where the next very good to great CB is goin to come from.

When I was growing up you had Des Walker, Butcher, then you had Adams & Keown was coming thru, Southgate wasnt too bad he was a ball playin CB, then after that you had Campbell, then after that Rio, King & then Terry, Carragher was shifted from midfield.

Now of the oens coming thru seem to have any leadership skills or know how to organise a back line

 

[Roaden Polynice]

Ronaldo is a weird player. Great, but not great?

Premier League has been shyt this year though, and I don't really like to criticize things! I've been finding myself fiending for Champions League though.

I'll just say this was a sabbatical year

 

[mastermind]

Their biggest club gave Mario Gomez a standing ovation last week. Kagawa and Sahin haven't set the world alight. I don't expect Rob Lewis too either. PSG might really buy Sam Nash for the full £25m

I said potential bredrin.

And im thinking more Reus, Goetze, Pigface, Lahm (albiet those two are older)...

who am I kidding

 

[Scottie Drippin]

La Liga is meh because its a 2 team league, but there are some really good players there. In Serie A too.

Honestly tho, Im more in the Frush thinking. Its just not a great generation, or maybe its Cronaldo and Messi being so far above everyone else that it makes it hard.

Like when we were youngins, it was Zidane, Rivaldo, Dinho, Real Ronaldo, Del Pierro, Titi, etc. There were a host of great players around the world. With this Messi/Cronaldo stranglehold, it maybe makes it hard for us to look at anyone else as great.

IN saying that, the premier league doesnt have many world class players anymore. IMO, its just RVP (but again, he showing signs of old white striker syndrome) and... I was going to say Cashley, but he isnt near his past standards.

I don't want to go there, as it's wild easy to always say "Everything now sucks, everything back then was better".

I do think the lack of play is collateral damage in the de-specialization of players. It's demanded of these brehs to do a lot more than their predecessors as that's the way to win now. Ozil's skills as a player are unwordly. His touch is ridiculous, he often treats defenders like backup guards on the washington generals, and his passing is not only beautiful, but can even be statistically proven as effective.

Yet we look upon him as a borderline liability because he doesn't track back to defend. Fifteen years ago that never wouldve been an issue.

It's also not a coincidence that as soccer was placed under the microscope by our ever more hyper analytycal society that suddenly nothing is good anymore.

 

[mastermind]

It's also not a coincidence that as soccer was placed under the microscope by our ever more hyper analytycal society that suddenly nothing is good anymore.

thats a good point

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

I don't want to go there, as it's wild easy to always say "Everything now sucks, everything back then was better".

I do think the lack of play is collateral damage in the de-specialization of players. It's demanded of these brehs to do a lot more than their predecessors as that's the way to win now. Ozil's skills as a player are unwordly. His touch is ridiculous, he often treats defenders like backup guards on the washington generals, and his passing is not only beautiful, but can even be statistically proven as effective.

Yet we look upon him as a borderline liability because he doesn't track back to defend. Fifteen years ago that never wouldve been an issue.

It's also not a coincidence that as soccer was placed under the microscope by our ever more hyper analytycal society that suddenly nothing is good anymore.

This is the thing does Ozil really dominate games for Real, like he does for Germany. Like Real, Germany are better than 99% of the teams they play anyway, but the difference is the NT team is kind of set up for him to run the show IMO, but at Real its like you dont notice him because of C dot and Jose plus because of Jose caution like approach, its like that Real Madrid team doesnt play up to its full/true potential.

Also Ozil has had a habit of goin missing when the game really matters most thus far in his career.

 

[Roaden Polynice]

Perhaps with this new breed of players you could make the argument that managers are better than they've ever been?

I know, yeah defenses across Europe are shyt, but perhaps there is a different reason for that, but surely the role of manager has shifted considerably otherwise.

And I don't think we as a society hyper analyze anything. There's a proliferation of opinions at the moment masquerading as 'analysis' when in fact it's just hot air.

 

[TTT]

The youth set up is better in Germany and Spain right now, EPL clubs have more money and prefer to buy players who have already been developed elsewhere. I think after the 09 season when the Ronaldo/Rooney/Tevez frontline was broken up and Liverpool dismantled their Mascherano/Alonso axis the EPL consistency in Europe started to fall of when City/Spurs did not have a lasting impact. As it stands there is a higher chance of the next great players being based on the ability of clubs to spot talented players outside England but they now face more competition than they did in that 07-09 period. The last time i saw a good spread in talent was the 90s-early 00s Serie A, they found a way to get talented players the world over. I think the breakdown was like

Fiorentina-Rui Costa/Batistuta( they eventually left)
Roma-Totti/Cafu/Montella
Inter-Ronaldo/Vieri/Baggio/Simeone
Juventus-Del Piero/Zidane/Deschamps/Inzaghi/Davids
Lazio-Veron/Mancini/Nedved/Salas/Nesta/Crespo/Mihajlovic(they raided Parma though).
Milan-Weah/Bierhoff (they werent as dominant in that period after the last generation)


I understand that for defenders it might take longer for them to mature into those positions and even central midfielders. I think people think of defenders differently, almost every fullback is supposed to be like Cafu/Roberto Carlos bombing up and down the wing and if their positioning is suspect so be it.

For the English league i think the competition they are facing in acquisitions has increased and in the absence of youth programs that can produce players we will continue seeing them plateau.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

This is the thing does Ozil really dominate games for Real, like he does for Germany. Like Real, Germany are better than 99% of the teams they play anyway, but the difference is the NT team is kind of set up for him to run the show IMO, but at Real its like you dont notice him because of C dot and Jose plus because of Jose caution like approach, its like that Real Madrid team doesnt play up to its full/true potential.

Also Ozil has had a habit of goin missing when the game really matters most thus far in his career.

Definitely just lost a long ass post I had.

The jist of it was.

-Bastian good, Xabi bad.
-Higuain is inept. Benzema probably, too.
-Really, fukk Xabi Alonso.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

And I don't think we as a society hyper analyze anything. There's a proliferation of opinions at the moment masquerading as 'analysis' when in fact it's just hot air.

Better put.

 

[mastermind]

And I don't think we as a society hyper analyze anything. There's a proliferation of opinions at the moment masquerading as 'analysis' when in fact it's just hot air.

I took The Don's post to be more about sports and statistics. Fantasy sports, advanced stats, etc.

managers been using it now a lot in football, even though they really dont mean anything since no one can find the value of these advanced stats with the exception of the heat maps.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

The youth set up is better in Germany and Spain right now, EPL clubs have more money and prefer to buy players who have already been developed elsewhere. I think after the 09 season when the Ronaldo/Rooney/Tevez frontline was broken up and Liverpool dismantled their Mascherano/Alonso axis the EPL consistency in Europe started to fall of when City/Spurs did not have a lasting impact. As it stands there is a higher chance of the next great players being based on the ability of clubs to spot talented players outside England but they now face more competition than they did in that 07-09 period. The last time i saw a good spread in talent was the 90s-early 00s Serie A, they found a way to get talented players the world over. I think the breakdown was like

Fiorentina-Rui Costa/Batistuta( they eventually left)
Roma-Totti/Cafu/Montella
Inter-Ronaldo/Vieri/Baggio/Simeone
Juventus-Del Piero/Zidane/Deschamps/Inzaghi/Davids
Lazio-Veron/Mancini/Nedved/Salas/Nesta/Crespo/Mihajlovic(they raided Parma though).
Milan-Weah/Bierhoff (they werent as dominant in that period after the last generation)


I understand that for defenders it might take longer for them to mature into those positions and even central midfielders. I think people think of defenders differently, almost every fullback is supposed to be like Cafu/Roberto Carlos bombing up and down the wing and if their positioning is suspect so be it.

For the English league i think the competition they are facing in acquisitions has increased and in the absence of youth programs that can produce players we will continue seeing them plateau.

The FA fukked themselves over when they shut down Lilleshall back in 99. Then all of a sudden it hits them that they need a national academy 8-10 years later because there arent any really good youth prospects are coming thru and that alot of the top PL teams academies are half filled with foreign kids. So not only is the pool at senior level smaller its the same at youth level aswell. Also you have to consider that they have the 90mins rule (where the kids got to live within 90mins of the training ground of said club) for the the team aswell for youth players its fukked things up. I blame Kieran Richardson for that because he left West Ham for United as a teen and West Ham complained then the rules got changed.

In regards to FB's in the modern game alot of them are now either converted wide midfielders or wingers and some of them dont get moved back deeper to FB till they hit they are 21-23. Ashley Cole worked because he got to work with great experienced defenders who could help him.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

I took The Don's post to be more about sports and statistics. Fantasy sports, advanced stats, etc.

managers been using it now a lot in football, even though they really dont mean anything since.

Looking at stats before the game doesnt help you score goals from open play. It may work more for set pieces if you know a particular team is weak from them or that if you see a pattern where a team dies in the last 15-20mins of games where physical and mental fitness comes into play. But generally its a load of tosh, because stats arent goin to show you when a player is goin to do an error in a game

 

[mastermind]

-Really, fukk Xabi Alonso.

chuuuuuuch

Looking at stats before the game doesnt help you score goals from open play. It may work more for set pieces if you know a particular team is weak from them or that if you see a pattern where a team dies in the last 15-20mins of games where physical and mental fitness comes into play. But generally its a load of tosh, because stats arent goin to show you when a player is goin to do an error in a game

I agree. Its a waste right now. No one can really tell the impact of these stats.

The only thing that sorta works is the heat maps.