The tyranny of female hypoagency

[Blackout]

fukk women only gyms.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Working harder doesn't get black people paid more. Working harder doesn't stop police from planting drugs on young black boys, then giving them higher prison sentences.

Working harder means graduating high school and taking education seriously. Working harder means staying away from crime as crime is usually taken as the path of least resistance to money. Working harder means not having kids without building the family structure first. I never said the white power structure doesn't play into any of this, but its dishonest to act as though we have zero input or impact on how we turn out. Yes, cops plant drugs and the justice system is fukked up, which is all the more reason we should be working harder to avoid getting caught up with the cops in the first place.

Explain how an old white man is responsible for the outcome of a single mother in the hamptons. Can you point out this old white man? Identify him by name?

You just proved my point. The single white mom might face issues the old white man has control over. She might be getting paid less to do the same job as some dude. She might be subject to sexual harrassment. But at the end of the day you agree that she's responsible for herself. So why aren't black people responsible for ourselves?

See how that works. You're only further showing your hypocrisy. Black folks get all the same oppression/inequality as women and then some, yet all you do is seek to point the finger at them for their problems. But on the flip side you blame the oppression/inequality for women's problems.

In both cases the oppression is from outside. But oppression isn't the only deciding factor in one's outcome- a point you yourself made with with "single mother in the Hamptons" analogy

 

[Un-AmericanDreamer]

I don't think it works like that though, I wouldn't expect a kid who doesn't know his father too all of a sudden at 18 to become the man his father wasn't , that's what makes it exceptional when you hear about some inner kid going to harvard.

Not surprising consider your stance on the black community but people need the proper incentives to want to do better. Bootstrap philosophy and hoo-rayism alone can't uplift a community. You just can't leave people to their own devices. Yes, society is partially to blame for male failure, black male failure.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Working harder means graduating high school and taking education seriously. Working harder means staying away from crime as crime is usually taken as the path of least resistance to money. Working harder means not having kids without building the family structure first. I never said the white power structure doesn't play into any of this, but its dishonest to act as though we have zero input or impact on how we turn out. Yes, cops plant drugs and the justice system is fukked up, which is all the more reason we should be working harder to avoid getting caught up with the cops in the first place.

That's the strawman you always create and tear down. I've never heard anyone say that black people have zero impact on how they turn out. That's an idea you created just so you can keep disproving it.

Now i could take a page out your book. And claim that you blamed ALL of women's problems on inequality, then tell you why your wrong. But I won't do that.

Also try this: "yes men rape women and its fukked up, which is more a reason they should try harder to avoid being around men in the first place.

You just proved my point. The single white mom might face issues the old white man has control over. She might be getting paid less to do the same job as some dude. She might be subject to sexual harrassment. But at the end of the day you agree that she's responsible for herself. So why aren't black people responsible for ourselves?

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Read it bruh^^^^^ you really have a problem with this.

Who said black people aren't responsible for themselves?

In both cases the oppression is from outside. But oppression isn't the only deciding factor in one's outcome- a point you yourself made with with "single mother in the Hamptons" analogy

Again I never said it was. In any thread if someone says anything about inequality when it comes to black people you make it your business to run in and tell them "they should try harder" or "it's the culture". But in this thread where inequality to women is brought up you're championing their cause. It's pure hypocrisy. Why don't you come in threads condemning unequal treatment to black folks?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

There is no thread in which I said systematic inequality is black people's fault.

I am with this and have said this before. We do drop the ball quite a bit. But its not Obama's job to tell us to do that. Obama's job is to fix the systematic impediments and discrimatory elements that are beyond our control.

Black intellectualism wouldn't counter all the systematic discrimination against black people

Yes there are systematic institutional failures

And I never said all of women's problems stemmed from oppression. I pointed out issues they face that are the result of oppression, just as I can point to specific problems black people face that are solely the result of oppression (disproportionately long prison sentences, higher guilty verdicts, corrupt police etc.).

The whole premise of your contentions with me is a strawman.

 

[The Real]

Let's not derail this into a race discussion. We have that argument all the time, and will have it again, but we rarely discuss women's issues here, plus TLR (ironically named for the "women's" forum on the other site) is a haven for misogynists.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

There is no thread in which I said systematic inequality is black people's fault.


And I never said all of women's problems stemmed from oppression. I pointed out issues they face that are the result of oppression, just as I can point to specific problems black people face that are solely the result of oppression (disproportionately long prison sentences, higher guilty verdicts, corrupt police etc.).

The whole premise of your contentions with me is a strawman.

I'm convinced you can't read. Where did I claim that you said that? Or that?

And all i was doing was pointing out specific problems that black people face due to to oppression but you made it your business to run in talking that try harder shyt.

My point is that when inequality is brought up about black folks you have no sympathy, your attitude is always "they should try harder" but now in this thread someone mentions inequality for women and your the first one fighting for equal rights.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

My point is that when inequality is brought up about black folks you have no sympathy, your attitude is always "they should try harder"

:userious: This is a bold faced lie, which was the point of me posting those quotes

@The Real I will comply if for no other reason than continuing with MTM is a waste of time

But this discussion is pretty one sided.... lot of the MRA dudes were mentioned and are avoiding this thread like the plague.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Let's not derail this into a race discussion. We have that argument all the time, and will have it again, but we rarely discuss women's issues here, plus TLR (ironically named for the "women's" forum on the other site) is a haven for misogynists.

You're right. I apologize

But I don't see this thread going much further. I think we've established that only buthurt sissy dudes are against women's rights.

 

[True Religion BuddhaMan]

wow you guys are so "Enlightened"

you must get a lot of p*ssy

congratulations

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

wow you guys are so "Enlightened"

you must get a lot of p*ssy

congratulations

Are women children? I don't think so! Am I am a Socialist? Ehm, no. - YouTube

Im pretty sure everyone here does in some capacity

Some of the MRA dudes are very vocal about not getting p*ssy actually. They brag about their lack of interaction with females like a badge of honor

But yea you def dug deep with that one.

 

[the mechanic]

They might be full of negative stereotypes against men, but the problem is discerning where they come from, and the answer isn't "women created them." That ad you've shown is a perfect example. It was a Super Bowl ad, which is the biggest male audience of any event year-round. Men are meant to be the audience for that ad. And who produced it? Do you think women are in charge at most ad agencies? The idea that an ad that depicts a nagging, controlling wife is just misandry and nothing else is a curious one, too... I'm not sure how you don't see where that wife stereotype fits in.

My point was that the zeitgeist is what is the issue..not specifically particular women..for example the ad i posted was certainly made by graduates of a top tier college arts program who would certainly have been exposed to feminism in college..perhaps indoctrinated by taking some womens studies .
Therein lies the problem..the misandry is so pervasive it has become almost invisible even men find it normal or funny.

It could be, but that would be a difficult argument to support, seeing as inchoate anger and bitterness doesn't do much for anyone.

Its the anger of the oppressed..i certainly dont harbor it nor find it useful

All the labor, risk, and responsibility? This assumes that labor doesn't include domestic work, for one, which is a strange position. It's well documented that more women are primary caretakers for their children, and for non-child relatives, than men are. If that doesn't count as labor and responsibility, I don't know what to tell you, but of course, that cognitive bias itself is male in origin.

i agree with this..

As for risk- men aren't nearly as at risk for things like rape or domestic violence as women are, so it depends on how you define risk. Men are more likely to die in combat, yes, or be murdered (almost always by other men.)

Hazardous work is done exclusively by men everywhere..usually to provide a living for his woman and children..its one of the reasons we live shorter lives

The other point that I find interesting here is that you don't see what labor, risk, and responsibility being taken on by men implies for women- in other words, less actual freedom. It's not as if women are enjoying great autonomy while men are taking on all those burdens.

I doubt my wife would ever want to switch places with me cutting and welding under greasy cars for a little more autonomy
My point was that the labor/risk/benefit curve has always worked against men since the days of clubbing wild animals for dinner..feminism has only made it worse

Additionally, among working women, most of them with kids take care of the children in addition to working full time- does that look to you like a society in which men take on most of the burdens?

Perhaps you misunderstood my position..i have nothing against the stay at home moms per se ..i think its fantastic to take care of your own children... but these are arrangements that dont have to conform to gender and should be worked out by the parents not imposed on them

I'm glad we can agree on this, but I don't know what feminists you're used to seeing. MRAs, like racists, love to use the minority of women who are extremists or believe in female domination or hating men or whatever else as representatives of feminism in general. As someone who has worked closely with womens' rights organizations in the past, I have honestly never met any such people in my life.

This could be a whole thread in itself but suffice to say the feminist movement of the 50s and is not the one we have now ...IMO every idealistic movement is inevitably always coopted and used against the very same people it should help

Feminism isn't responsible for those things. That's an absurd suggestion, breh. How can a movement that was meant to destroy the stereotypes about women (like the stereotype that women are naturally caretakers, homemakers) be responsible for increased custody bias against men, which depends on exactly that same stereotype?

In the beginning it may have been about freedom and dignity and who could argue against that but somewhere it turned into a "some animals are more equal than others" animal farm moment and that was tolerable but then the demonising of men started and that was too much to bear so these guys started speaking out.

As for false rape accusers, here's an estimate of how that looks (drawn from government stats, and then edited to include more false accusers):

As you can see, we could double, triple, quadruple, even multiply the number by 10, or even 20... it still wouldn't approach the number of actual rapes. It's not nearly as significant a problem as MRAs want it to be (which is not to say it doesn't happen.)

Im not too big on stats but by your own posted source 2-8% are false accusations..according to the FBI 90,000 rapes thats 7200 men EVERY YEAR who will themselves be raped in jail.. the women who make these malicious reports rarely get punished
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgxwPU0W-Wg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgxwPU0W-Wg[/ame]
This woman will even do it to a cop..what chance does a regular guy have

As for "destroying families," that's a ridiculous assertion. Considering, especially among Black folks, that most children are raised by single mothers and not fathers, I'm not sure how the women can be held responsible for "destroying the family," since they are integral parts of what family units do exist. More generally, though, you'd have to explain how feminism was responsible for whatever "family destruction" you're pointing to. Sounds to me like you've been getting your story on this issue straight from the MRAs, and not from actual history.

Note i said feminism...not women theres a distinction...and I came to that conclusion on my own..its actually pretty simple ..i can elaborate further if you wish

The point isn't to write them off. The point is that the "good" MRAs are already feminists, they just don't realize it yet, and they have no real reason to align themselves with the angry and bitter crowd that make up the majority of the visible movement. I know that you're not a homophobe, for example. The vast majority of MRAs are. Why? Because there's a split in the movement itself, between people who see that the rigid gender roles are the problem, and those who are confused and either hold a contradictory position about them or simply want to re-entrench them further (this latter group makes up the majority.)

I agree there are alot of wierdos on the bandwagon some are even christian, some are right wing,some are homophobes ...thats why i would hesitate to self identify as an MRA but i do agree with some of the core issues that i laid out.

 

[the mechanic]

a dude who hangs out in gay clubs, supporting MRA, call me shocked

I ride for my nikkas dawg

I die for my nikkas dawgggggggg

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

My point was that the zeitgeist is what is the issue..not specifically particular women..for example the ad i posted was certainly made by graduates of a top tier college arts program who would certainly have been exposed to feminism in college..perhaps indoctrinated by taking some womens studies .
Therein lies the problem..the misandry is so pervasive it has become almost invisible even men find it normal or funny.

What about the culture of misogyny. Why arent you angry about the people who threaten rape victims

Its the anger of the oppressed..i certainly dont harbor it nor find it useful

Like I asked before... how are men being oppressed today?

Hazardous work is done exclusively by men everywhere..usually to provide a living for his woman and children..its one of the reasons we live shorter lives

Again work these men choose to do. You can't be voluntarily oppressed

I doubt my wife would ever want to switch places with me cutting and welding under greasy cars for a little more autonomy

She might want to do something besides stay home and raise your kids though.

My point was that the labor/risk/benefit curve has always worked against men since the days of clubbing wild animals for dinner..feminism has only made it worse

No for so many reasons. One beign that w/women unable to work they are completely dependent on and subject to men who may abuse and exploit them. Women only started to choose their roles in society in the last 100 years

This could be a whole thread in itself but suffice to say the feminist movement of the 50s and is not the one we have now ...IMO every idealistic movement is inevitably always coopted and used against the very same people it should help

Name one goal the feminist movement achieved in the 50s. Name one difference between the feminist movement then and now. And cite sources.

In the beginning it may have been about freedom and dignity and who could argue against that but somewhere it turned into a "some animals are more equal than others" animal farm moment and that was tolerable but then the demonising of men started and that was too much to bear so these guys started speaking out.

No

Im not too big on stats but by your own posted source 2-8% are false accusations..according to the FBI 90,000 rapes thats 7200 men EVERY YEAR who will themselves be raped in jail.. the women who make these malicious reports rarely get punished
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgxwPU0W-Wg
This woman will even do it to a cop..what chance does a regular guy have

7200 men falsely accused vs millions of women whose rapes go unreported... yea the falsely reported rapes are clearly the bigger issue here.

Note i said feminism...not women theres a distinction...and I came to that conclusion on my own..its actually pretty simple ..i can elaborate further if you wish

I doubt it.

I agree there are alot of wierdos on the bandwagon some are even christian, some are right wing,some are homophobes ...thats why i would hesitate to self identify as an MRA but i do agree with some of the core issues that i laid out.

No offense but you are one of them. You have yet to substantiate anything you say w/hard evidence and even openly state an aversion to "statistics". At least Reincar had some hard evidence to fall back on. You hate "feminism" but don't know anything about it.

 

[True Religion BuddhaMan]

Im pretty sure everyone here does in some capacity

Some of the MRA dudes are very vocal about not getting p*ssy actually. They brag about their lack of interaction with females like a badge of honor

But yea you def dug deep with that one.

like i said

congratulations

so this is more about who gets p*ssy and who doesnt than actual women's rights

let the circlejerk continue