But Kobe faced those same West teams in the playoffs
You are denying that facing teams with losing records in the first round and sweeping them easily 4-0 isn't an advantage compared to facing a 50 win 8th seed team and going 6-7 games?
These 2 shots Kobe Made over Lebron :wow:
- Thread starter Jordan>>LeFrozen
- Start date
But Kobe faced those same West teams in the playoffs
You are denying that facing teams with losing records in the first round and sweeping them easily 4-0 isn't an advantage compared to facing a 50 win 8th seed team and going 6-7 games?
Yup. Never heard that before. Only time I've seen overall strength of playoff schedule being discussed is when somebody is trying to downplay Lebron. I need more evidence than that.But Kobe faced those same West teams in the playoffs
You are denying that facing teams with losing records in the first round and sweeping them easily 4-0 isn't an advantage compared to facing a 50 win 8th seed team and going 6-7 games?
KD Chris Paul and Melo have all made deep runs in the west. They get zero credit for it. No banners for "played in the west". Finals are all that matter
kobe finished with a 6-15 head-to-head record vs Lebron
The pass to the open man is greater than the shot over 3 people.....
But Kobe faced those same West teams in the playoffs
You are denying that facing teams with losing records in the first round and sweeping them easily 4-0 isn't an advantage compared to facing a 50 win 8th seed team and going 6-7 games?
I love that beating the freaking Ron Artest Houston Rockets or the Deron Williams Utah Jazz or the 2010 baby Thunder were now such incredible feats that it wore Kobe down and made it hard for him to recover for the real series.
Kobe NEVER had a serious chance of losing to those 1st/2nd round teams, and he NEVER got more significantly worn down from those series than Lebron did from his series. He didn't play any more minutes and he didn't carry any bigger of a load. In fact, the ridiculous load that Lebron had to carry with Bosh out in 2012 (6 games against Pacers, 7 games against Celtics, doing literally everything on both ends) was far more of a "disadvantage" than those meaningless 1st/2nd round fodder that Kobe was playing.
Bilz
Superstar
No, it was the Thunder of two years later, the ones that stomped the fukk out of Kobe and the Lakers.baby thunder?
same thunder lebron gets credit for beating
Jordan>>LeFrozen
It was written in the Bible
Imagine a team with LeBron as its second best player. How is that team losing to anyone?
LeBron was giving the Lakers that work with an extremelyversion of Shaq. A young LeBron with a prime Shaq would have been devastating.
Lebron as a first option in 2007 averaged 22 on 35%. A 23 year old lebron averaged 23 on 41% in the playoffs. A 23 year old Mamaba averaged 29 on 46%. Shaq wins all those fmvps with young lebron just like he did young Kobe. Even if the heat won in 2011 Wade would of won that's FMVP and this was a older lebron playing at the time
Jordan>>LeFrozen
It was written in the Bible
I give him a credit for that, but that means he eclipses everybody since nobody beat a 70 win team before.
:wowhand1:It's even worse in context, because in the two Laker/Cavs matchups during Lebron's rookie year in 2004, Kobe only played 6 minutes and 17 minutes and didn't do crap, but the Lakers still won both games.
So if you only count the games where both players actually played (all the other matchups both guys were in 30+ minutes), then Kobe is only 4-16 against Lebron.
4-16
LeBron James vs. Kobe Bryant | Basketball-Reference.com
In his entire career against Lebron, Kobe scored 30+ in a win....ONCE.
Lebron scored 30+ in a win against Kobe....EIGHT times.He scored 38, 33, 41, 37, 31, 39, 32, 36 in those 8 games.
Who feasted on who again?
And that doesn't even reflect the fact that Lebron was scoring more efficiently than Kobe AND outperforming in literally every other aspect of the game as well.
Lebron: 28.2ppg, 7.4rpg, 7.2apg, 1.9spg, 0.7bpg, 47-32-69 shooting splits, 16 wins
Kobe: 24.6ppg, 5.0rpg, 5.2apg, 1.1spg, 0.2bpg, 43-34-85 shooting splits, 6 wins (really only 4)
Kobe had a few "take a lot of shots, score a lot of points, and lose" games against Lebron though.
38 points on 33 shots and miss the game-winner at the buzzer, 35 points on 33 shots and lose by 15, 31 points on 31 shots and let Lebron get the game-winner with 40 seconds left while you miss both threes after that, that sort of thing. I guess those were the "feasted" games you were referring to?
Kobe does have that free throw shooting advantage on him.
Jordan>>LeFrozen
It was written in the Bible
If Kobe wasn't the one getting killed by Lebron in those matchups, then why didn't he switch onto him? Somebody needed help!
And if Lebron wasn't the one stopping Kobe over and over again, then who was? Delonte West? Anthony Parker? Larry Hughes?
The funniest part about this is that Kobe actually had a variety of decent defensive wings to help out on Lebron (Metta World Peace, Trevor Ariza, Matt Barnes, Lamar Odom, plus Bynum protecting the rim), while Lebron never had good defensive help that could match up well on Kobe, and Lebron still killed Kobe in the head-to-head.
But Kobe's stats in the Finals suck compared to Lebron's too.
Lebron's two bad Finals were against elite, well-coached zone defenses that packed the paint and focused everything on stopping Lebron. It wasn't "choking", he had fantastic performances in big moments against great defensive teams like the Pistons, Celtics, and Magic, who played more traditional defenses. He just hadn't developed the skills yet to beat a smart zone with the right personnel.
Lakers never played that kind of zone defense, which is why he always ran circles around whoever was guarding him. They would have looked just like the Pistons/Magic/Celtics did, not the Spurs/Mavs.
In 2008, Lebron took the Celtics to 7 and scored 45 in barely losing. 27-6-8 on 36%, got better as the series went on (45% in last 3 games).
In 2008, Kobe got blown out by 40 by the Celtics in 6 with Kobe disappearing. 25-5-5 on 41% shooting, got worse as the series went on (34% in last 3 games).
In 2010, Lebron lost to the Celtics in 6 despite averaging 27-9-7 on 45% shooting.
In 2010, Kobe's Lakers beat the Celtics in 7 (after Perkins got hurt) with Kobe averaging 28-8-4 on 41% shooting
In all of the 2008-2010 playoffs combined, Kobe won exactly ONE more game against the Celtics than Lebron did, and you're acting like it was this narrative of complete Kobe dominance.
The Cavs couldn't get past the Celtics because they literally had no one who could D up Garnett, Pierce, Ray, or Rondo except Lebron, and Lebron can only guard one guy at a time. Lakers had Gasol, Odom, and MWP as three guys who could guard tall forwards/wings, while Cavs were trying to guard Garnett with Varejao and Pierce/Ray/Rondo (whichever two Lebron wasn't on) with some combination of freaking Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, and the mentally ill shell of Delonte West.
The Cavs couldn't get past the Magic because, once again, no one on the Cavs could guard Dwight at all (while the Lakers had both Bynum and Gasol as big bodies down low), and Lebron was literally the only guy who could match up on Rashard Lewis, Turkoglu, or Pietrus. Varejao wasn't mobile enough to get to Lewis on the perimeter, and Cavs had 6'2" Boobie, 6'1" Mo, and 6'3" Delonte to match up against a bunch of Magic perimeter players that were 6'6" to 6'10".
On the other hand, in a Lakers/Cavs matchup Lebron could guard Kobe, Varejao could at least reasonably guard Gasol (at least not be overpowered to the same degree as he was against Dwight and Garnett), and no one else on the Lakers could take advantage of the Cavs' shortcomings on one-on-one defense. The Lakers had neither a PG nor a Center who was elite enough on offense at that point to exploit the Cavs' shortcomings in those areas, and they didn't have the multiple dangerous tall wings to exploit their lack of guard height.
The Lakers were literally the perfect team to fail to take advantage of the Cavs shortcomings (skinny post players and
Kobestan still thinks it's a game-changer to prop up short, non-athletic White guys in the 1950s who couldn't dribble or shoot.
So why lebron then if the Cavs had it so easy? So you know lebron didn't have the defensive help, coach or finals experience to beat the lakers for 3 straight series when he needed a collapse from the Spurs to even go back to back with HOF Wade and bosh? Regular season is irrelelvent to me since the steph curry outplayed the cavs in the regular season than got lost to this same cavs and got outplayed by kyrie Irving only after having a better season and beating the cavs by 40. His finals numbers were nowhere on the same par with his RS numbers. Lebron regular season numbers weren't the same in 07 like they were in the finals that same year. He averaged like 25 in 2011. Had a 40 point playoff game and Only 18 during the 2011 finals. So what the cavs did in regular season wouldn't have happened in 2008-10 had he met the lakers. Kobe did a decent job defending bron.
At the end of the day you can't really stop lebron, but you can contain him.
You giving me all these scenarios but the here's a fact that happened. Lebron couldn't make it out of the east to even see Kobe in the finals, but he suppose to beat down on Kobe when neither of his first two finals were anything like his regular seasons in the years of 2007 and 2011? If that's what you think then the Warriors should of swept the cavs in the finals.
So you telling me that the cavs were not a strong enough matchup to beat a magic team that Kobe and the lakers owned?
No one on the cavs couldn't guard anyone on the celtics? But the lakers took the same celtics down to the WIRE in 2010 and split 1-1 with them in the finals?
No one on the cavs could guard Dwight? But they could guard prime Pau and Bynum downlow? Yea Dwight was obviously better but Dwight couldn't destroy a lakers who had big bodies downlow to challenge him.
Most importantly though lebron was a mental midget who could not handle that much pressure and you telling me those same cavs teams he went on television to bounce on will beat the lakers in a 7 game series? Kobe averaged 28 8 and 3 in that 2010 series with a bad game 7. Varejao and Zydrunas Ilgauska wasn't stopping prime gasol and Bynum downlow. Both of them and boobie Gibson, mo Williams and co wasn't beating the lakers in 3 straight finals with Phil Jackson as the coach at that. there's literally no statistic that make me believe that
. At best lakers go 2-1 against them. The same cavs team who could never make it out of the playoffs except for one time vs a lakers going through a tougher west and 3 straight finals with peak Kobe, prime gasol, Ron artest Derek fisher and Bynum with those no names garbage nikkas and a cavs GM who refused to get lebron the help he needed to win which is why he left? 
That cavs team and organization that was nothing but pure fukkery and could never get lebron a proper team was beating the lakers who went to 3 straight while lebron struggled to get out the east. You have no proof of the cavs even being able to dominate the playoffs when the lakers came out of a tougher West and you know lebron didn't have a coach or defensive help but they beating the lakers in 3 7 game series when lebrons only final experiece was getting his full blasted and had to damn near drop 35-50 every game to make it out the east? You have no nba experience either so bob cousey jerry west and them cacs would run you off the court.
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Jordan>>LeFrozen
It was written in the Bible
2-1 without ShaqThe sad part about this is that Kobestans are so ignorant, they actually believe that making 7 Finals and winning 3 is worse than only making 3 and only winning 2.
2-1 is MUCH worse than 3-4, because when you're 2-1, it means you lost EARLIER.
Watch them argue that Hakeem is better than Kareem because Hakeem went 2-1 in Finals while Kareem was only 5-4. Or Isaiah better than Magic for the same reason. I guess Dirk's 1-1 in Finals is better than Wilt's 2-5?
2-2 with dwade and bosh
0-2 with no superteam
1-0 with kyrie and love
I really hope you didn't spend a lot of time writing that, because no one on God's green Earth will ever read it. I got through about a third thinking, "Everything here is nonsensical or crap I already replied to", and then I had to give up.
Did you not get the point of what I said?
Kobe isn't 2-1 without Shaq, he's 2-11. And he's 3-4 with Shaq. You don't get a freaking mulligan because you bowed out before even reaching the Finals
An L is an L, whether it comes before the Finals or not.
Lebron is 2-2 in his career with Wade/Bosh, 1-0 with Kyrie, and 0-8 with scrubs.
Kobe was 3-4 with Shaq, 2-4 with Gasol and company, 0-1 with the all-stars he played with his rookie season, and 0-6 with scrubs.
THAT is a real comparison. Not the idiotic one that keeps your record clean if you lose in the first round but docks you if you lose in the Finals.
Jordan>>LeFrozen
It was written in the Bible
I really hope you didn't spend a lot of time writing that, because no one on God's green Earth will ever read it. I got through about a third thinking, "Everything here is nonsensical or crap I already replied to", and then I had to give up.
Did you not get the point of what I said?
Kobe isn't 2-1 without Shaq, he's 2-11. And he's 3-4 with Shaq. You don't get a freaking mulligan because you bowed out before even reaching the Finals
An L is an L, whether it comes before the Finals or not.
Lebron is 2-2 in his career with Wade/Bosh, 1-0 with Kyrie, and 0-8 with scrubs.
Kobe was 3-4 with Shaq, 2-4 with Gasol and company, 0-1 with the all-stars he played with his rookie season, and 0-6 with scrubs.
THAT is a real comparison. Not the idiotic one that keeps your record clean if you lose in the first round but docks you if you lose in the Finals.
You trying to give me a seizure reading this retarded shyt? So what is jordan? Magic? Or anybody if we counting finals+playoffs together? What is lebron? 3-13 or something? Look, we know lebron is great, when I imply he isn't I'm talking my shyt, we know the nikkas a great player but IMO only he wouldn't have beaten Kobe three finals with THAT cavs team that he knew wasn't shyt, which is why he went on to tv to take his talents to the 305. Regular seasons don't mean nothing compared to the finals. After getting your ass handed to you in the playoffs where you literally have to play like jordan just to win one game, you not beating the 09-10 lakers who 2/3 on teams that beat lebron.
A good matchup would of been Lakers vs Miami but unfortunately Kobe and Nash were past their primes and Dwight ain't been worth a damn since he left Orlando. How we forget Kobe was still averaging 27 before his season came to an end?
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
They had a window, but overall they both were way too inconsistent. Over their careers only shot 42-43% and averaged 23-24ppg against each other. And the Lakers were almost always a lot better than Marbury's teams.
Lebron-Wade was the lit scoring battles. It's like they had an agreement with their teams, "This is the regular season, just let us go at each other all game." Three times going over 80 combined, three more going over 70. Over their careers Lebron averaged 29ppg and Wade 27ppg, both on great shooting, and Lebron had the edge overall but it was close.
That game where Lebron put up a 47-point triple-double to overcome Wade's 44 points and 9 assists.
This is one of the reasons I was mad Bron joined Wade...if the cHeat had rebuilt in time we could've had Bron vs Wade in the ECF
baby thunder?
same thunder lebron gets credit for beating
The 2010 Thunder were a team that had gone 23-59 the previous year. None of them had any playoff experience at all. Harden was a rookie, Ibaka was a rookie, Westbrook and Durant were in their 2nd and 3rd years and were both only 21, Jeff Green was in his 3rd year too, and Scott Brooks was in his first full year as a head coach.
THAT is why I called them the "baby thunder". They had just had a 23-win season and none of them were over 21, it was the first year half the eventual stars had ever played with each other, and the team had never even been to the playoffs in its entire history. They were NOT going to threaten the defending champs.
That's why Kobe could play like gutter trash in that series (23-4-4 on 40% shooting going against kids) and the Lakers could still win 4-2 because Gasol/Bynum/Odom/Fisher were doing their thing. Gasol made the series game-winner, btw, after Kobe missed it twice in a row. And Gasol/Bynum carried the Lakers in Game 5 too with Kobe only playing 29 minutes and only scoring 13 points. They had carried the Lakers in the Game 1 win as well, when Kobe went 6-19. He was not getting "worn out" playing the Thunder.
In the 2012 Thunder, they had all been playing together for three years under the same coach. They had all made the playoffs for three years. They had already played in two WCF together by the time they faced Lebron's Heat. All the stars were 22/23 years old, the same age Lebron made his first Finals. They were NOT the "baby Thunder" anymore.
It was NOTHING like 20-year-old rookies playing in their first playoffs ever the season after a 23-59 campaign.
And that's why they destroyed the Bynum-Gasol-MWP-Kobe-Sessions (plus Blake/Barnes off the bench) Lakers in just 5 games, even though that was Bynum's all-star season when he had established himself as the #2 two-way center in the NBA.
THAT was the team that Lebron gets credit for beating in 5 in the Finals. Not the baby Thunder of two years earlier.
