They arguing on twitter: Who is the better songwriter, Hov or 50?

[spliz]

Yep.

The chorus is the most melodic musical part of a rap record. Some rappers aren't all that musically inclined. Take Nas goat MC but is no good at hooks. Jay is no good at hooks. Rae mostly is no good at hooks.

The most musically gifted MC's mastered the hooks. 50, Ja, DMX, 2pac, etc.

All Jay's biggest records the hook was someone else. Take his first ever billboard number one hit with Alicia Keys. 'Empire state of mind' which was an Alicia Keys record he remade. The annnie sample, the UGK hook, what else?

50 is big in Europe due solely to beats and hooks. He has memorable bars here and there but he makes memorable music!!

The 'Many Men' hook for example.

Both Jay and Nas are good at hooks. Matter fact Nas been doin the melodic hook shyt since before both of them. Gimme Yours for instance. The World Is Yours is a Nas hook he just had Pete sing it. shyt Stay Schemin with Ross, Drake and French came from Nas. And we don’t even have to get into the hooks Jay came up with.

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

Yep.

The chorus is the most melodic musical part of a rap record. Some rappers aren't all that musically inclined. Take Nas goat MC but is no good at hooks. Jay is no good at hooks. Rae mostly is no good at hooks.

The most musically gifted MC's mastered the hooks. 50, Ja, DMX, 2pac, etc.

All Jay's biggest records the hook was someone else. Take his first ever billboard number one hit with Alicia Keys. 'Empire state of mind' which was an Alicia Keys record he remade. The annnie sample, the UGK hook, what else?

50 is big in Europe due solely to beats and hooks. He has memorable bars here and there but he makes memorable music!!

The 'Many Men' hook for example.

I wouldn’t say Jay struggles with writing a chorus or anything but has he shown throughout his career he can write hooks that or so catchy it takes the song up a couple of levels?

No

 

[BlackDiBiase]

Both Jay and Nas are good at hooks. Matter fact Nas been doin the melodic hook shyt since before both of them. Gimme Yours for instance. The World Is Yours is a Nas hook he just had Pete sing it. shyt Stay Schemin with Ross, Drake and French came from Nas. And we don’t even have to get into the hooks Jay came up with.

I see that, I never knew he wrote 'Stay Schemin' I just think his hooks are little tired he puts no real effort there. Outside a few gems like 'Doo-Rags'.

Jay is known to steal hooks though. He took a Ja Rule 'Can I get A ...' He took Omilio Sparks hook for 'Baby give it to me' and a few things here and there.

I would say Jay his hook on 'The Bounce' was 5 mics it was dope. Jay is similar to Nas to me in their hooks arent always the most inspiring.

Compared to 50 cent though, I would suggest 50 is slightly more of the musician due to his melodic hooks. That's just 50 Vs Jay though lol.

 

[BlackDiBiase]

I wouldn’t say Jay struggles with writing a chorus or anything but has he shown throughout his career he can write hooks that or so catchy it takes the song up a couple of levels?

No

He can of course like 'Still Dre' and 'Money aint a thing' both powerful hooks but this is in comparison to 50 cent.

Like OP was asking.

 

[spliz]

I see that, I never knew he wrote 'Stay Schemin' I just think his hooks are little tired he puts no real effort there. Outside a few gems like 'Doo-Rags'.

Jay is known to steal hooks though. He took a Ja Rule 'Can I get A ...' He took Omilio Sparks hook for 'Baby give it to me' and a few things here and there.

I would say Jay his hook on 'The Bounce' was 5 mics it was dope. Jay is similar to Nas to me in their hooks arent always the most inspiring.

Compared to 50 cent though, I would suggest 50 is slightly more of the musician due to his melodic hooks. That's just 50 Vs Jay though lol.

I feel Nas' hooks tie the song together. shyt like Watch Dem nikkas. Street Dreams another melodic hook. Suspect catchy. Bro I can keep going. Small World. Hate Me Now. Etc etc. I can keep going. But to me. Putting a good song together is also knowing how to tie the lyrics in to what the book is saying. Jay and Nas are great at that.

 

[Street Knowledge]

Yep.

The chorus is the most melodic musical part of a rap record. Some rappers aren't all that musically inclined. Take Nas goat MC but is no good at hooks. Jay is no good at hooks. Rae mostly is no good at hooks.

The most musically gifted MC's mastered the hooks. 50, Ja, DMX, 2pac, etc.

All Jay's biggest records the hook was someone else. Take his first ever billboard number one hit with Alicia Keys. 'Empire state of mind' which was an Alicia Keys record he remade. The annnie sample, the UGK hook, what else?

50 is big in Europe due solely to beats and hooks. He has memorable bars here and there but he makes memorable music!!

The 'Many Men' hook for example.

Why are you lying about empire state of mind being an Alicia keys song remade when it was done and they approached her

Why did the version she put out by herself was nowhere close to being as successful as the Jay Z version

Empire State of Mind (Part II) Broken Down - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But but I’m not a hater

 

[BlackDiBiase]

I feel Nas' hooks tie the song together. shyt like Watch Dem nikkas. Street Dreams another melodic hook. Suspect catchy. Bro I can keep going. Small World. Hate Me Now. Etc etc. I can keep going. But to me. Putting a good song together is also knowing how to tie the lyrics in to what the book is saying. Jay and Nas are great at that.

I hear this, I still would give the slight edge to 50 cent because he stays in the atmosphere. Jay has some goofy hooks too lol like 'BP2' oohh beehave ... like 'Ghetto Techno' and etc. He is still official though just 50 sh1t slaps a little harder to me sonic wise.

Why are you lying about empire state of mind being an Alicia keys song remade when it was done and they approached her

Why did the version she put out by herself was nowhere close to being as successful as the Jay Z version

Empire State of Mind (Part II) Broken Down - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But but I’m not a hater

Oh wow! You corrected me for sure but still was his first ever number one and I always heard the Alicia Keys single on radio. Read somewhere Jay took the hook like he takes many hooks lol.

Props on the info though.

 

[Street Knowledge]

Plus if 50 was a great songwriter he would have more classic or even near classic albums. Jeezy is a good song writer. 50 got lucky and caught a hot streak in a short window.

I never thought about this but it’s an interesting point. 50 only really had “hits” for 3 albums across a 4 year period. But apparently that doesn’t matter.

Did just get lucky during that time period with all time backing and just got exposed after?

 

[Cloud McFly]

The one that’s in the Songwriters Hall of Fame.

 

[RennisDeynolds]

Just because I think he the best rapper ever don’t mean I’m a Stan dweeb

Shut up bish. You either #RocNation or not

 

[Piff Perkins]

I feel Nas' hooks tie the song together. shyt like Watch Dem nikkas. Street Dreams another melodic hook. Suspect catchy. Bro I can keep going. Small World. Hate Me Now. Etc etc. I can keep going. But to me. Putting a good song together is also knowing how to tie the lyrics in to what the book is saying. Jay and Nas are great at that.

I generally agree and couldn't help but note those tracks are from the first three albums. I've been listening to Life Is Good a lot lately and thought about starting a thread about the line on Back When, where Nas says "my man Dion (No ID) says Nas overthinks the songs he's writing." To me a big difference between Jay and Nas is that Jay heavily leaned into his songwriting and pop sensibilities later in his career whereas Nas kind of veered away. Jay constantly being around Kanye, Pharrell, Timbo, etc from the late 90s through WTT/MCHG really helped him sharpen hooks and focus verses better for casual audiences, despite some writing missteps people try to ignore (KC, BP2, etc). And just as importantly it made him understand when someone is giving you a hit (hook, beat, etc) your job is to just fit inside the track and not complicate things.

I kinda feel like Nas' writing on singles/anthems has gotten less sharp as he veers off topic or gets too lyrical on tracks that should just be straight forward bangers. Which - to me - is a big reason we stopped getting as much shyt like The Message, Street Dreams, Nas Is Like, Made You Look etc later on. He also seemed to accept fewer hooks/beats for potential hits, and when he did accept them they weren't good (Untitled singles for instance).

 

[BK The Great]

Just to think about it Fat Joe & 50 is a better comparison. Both aren’t super lyricists but can make good songs with hooks.

 

[Still Benefited]

I never thought about this but it’s an interesting point. 50 only really had “hits” for 3 albums across a 4 year period. But apparently that doesn’t matter.

Did just get lucky during that time period with all time backing and just got exposed after?

Of course he did,maybe luck is the wrong word. But when you get to a certain level where your on fire,its just hard to miss. Id argue Jay had this same "luck" when he was hot. Alot of his hits and songs aged horribly imo. Goes for probably anybody who had major commercial success. But when your hot those songs hit different for whatever reason. 50 was invincible and had plot armor during his GRODT era.


But how is this even close when we talk about non hits?

 

[Cladyclad]

Of course he did,maybe luck is the wrong word. But when you get to a certain level where your on fire,its just hard to miss. Id argue Jay had this same "luck" when he was hot. Alot of his hits and songs aged horribly imo. Goes for probably anybody who had major commercial success. But when your hot those songs hit different for whatever reason. 50 was invincible and had plot armor during his GRODT era.


But how is this even close when we talk about non hits?

What hits aged horribly?

 

[Pop123]

There’s a reason Jayz first (and only?) #1 hit on one of his own songs was gift wrapped and handed to him by Alicia Keys, “Empire State of Mind”. 50 gotta hella #1s…and they’re all solo records,

But let yall tell it…,