Thomas Sowell: How Republicans can woo the black vote

[theworldismine13]

And why would the public give money to a school system they had no hand in running?

charter schools should some supervision, but the whole point of charters is to get the bureaucracy out of the system

the issue is are the schools working, and the question is why should the public continue giving money to a public school bureaucracy that doesnt address the needs of the community

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

charter schools should some supervision, but the whole point of charters is to get the bureaucracy out of the system

the issue is are the schools working, and the question is why should the public continue giving money to a public school bureaucracy that doesnt address the needs of the community

As long as there are public funds being used, there will be some central supervising/administrating body... aka a bureaucracy

The problem isn't bureaucracy in and of itself, its ineffective/inefficient bureaucracy, and its an inequitable distribution of resources. By the description you describe your solution will still have a bureaucracy and won't directly address the resource distribution problem. You dont need charter schools to ensure everyone gets an equal and the best quality public education the country can provide

 

[theworldismine13]

As long as there are public funds being used, there will be some central supervising/administrating body... aka a bureaucracy

The problem isn't bureaucracy in and of itself, its ineffective/inefficient bureaucracy, and its an inequitable distribution of resources. By the description you describe your solution will still have a bureaucracy and won't directly address the resource distribution problem. You dont need charter schools to ensure everyone gets an equal and the best quality public education the country can provide

yeah i didnt say there wasnt gonna be a bureaucracy, im saying that the bureaucracy should just be a system that supervises independent charter schools and private schools receiving charters, its a very hands off bureaucracy

and the problem is the the bureaucracy itself, the current one, its a system that doesnt allow parents to choose their school and doesnt allow individual schools flexibility in hiring and firing and school curriculum, and most importantly its a system that doesnt punish failure

and actually there is no evidence that money spent on students equates with quality of education, in fact there are studies that show the opposite, the notion that spreading money around will solve education is not supportable by facts

 

[NZA]

as usual, black republicans have no real solutions to their party's "outreach" attempts to nonwhites because keeping it 100 with cacs means losing your racket you have going

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

yeah i didnt say there wasnt gonna be a bureaucracy, im saying that the bureaucracy should just be a system that supervises independent charter schools and private schools receiving charters, its a very hands off bureaucracy

and the problem is the the bureaucracy itself, the current one, its a system that doesnt allow parents to choose their school and doesnt allow individual schools flexibility in hiring and firing and school curriculum, and most importantly its a system that doesnt punish failure

Parents wouldnt have to choose different schools if the ones in their municipalities were good. And there are other ways to either negotiate with or break the unions that make for the hiring/firing inflexibilities.

and actually there is no evidence that money spent on students equates with quality of education, in fact there are studies that show the opposite, the notion that spreading money around will solve education is not supportable by facts

Sure it is. Here's an article that shows the clear difference in the quality of education afforded to students based solely on costs. Ironically one of the two schools being contrasted is a charter school. Big question I ask after read this is, why have charter schools at all? Why not bring all schools up to the standards of charters?

Separate and unequal: The charter school pedestal the public can’t reach | MSNBC

 

[theworldismine13]

Parents wouldnt have to choose different schools if the ones in their municipalities were good. And there are other ways to either negotiate with or break the unions that make for the hiring/firing inflexibilities.


Sure it is. Here's an article that shows the clear difference in the quality of education afforded to students based solely on costs. Ironically one of the two schools being contrasted is a charter school. Big question I ask after read this is, why have charter schools at all? Why not bring all schools up to the standards of charters?

Separate and unequal: The charter school pedestal the public can’t reach | MSNBC

Parents are choosing the schools in their municipalities, so i don't know what that is suppose to mean

the point of school choice is to have choices and options, the type of attitude that you are displaying now, suggesting that parents should be forced to a particular school, is exactly the type of fascist attitude that school choice is fighting against

Ita not for me to say whether any particular school is good enough, the parents should vote with their feet, and any school that doesn't meet the standards of the parents or is violating rules should be shut down

Actually no there aren't other ways to bring about the flexibility needed without eradicating the public school bearucracy

I don't get what the article is suppose to prove? I just explained to you that to improve schools you have to eliminate the public school bearucracy and switch to independently run charter school and private schools, that article is bolstering my argument

We need to eliminate the public school system as we know it, you are the one that is defending the public school system so you need to explain how you plan to bring up the standards not me, I'm saying it needs to go in the garbage

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Parents are choosing the schools in their municipalities, so i don't know what that is suppose to mean

the point of school choice is to have choices and options, the type of attitude that you are displaying now, suggesting that parents should be forced to a particular school, is exactly the type of fascist attitude that school choice is fighting against

Ita not for me to say whether any particular school is good enough, the parents should vote with their feet, and any school that doesn't meet the standards of the parents or is violating rules should be shut down

Again, the only reason school choices are necessary is because certain schools are so much worse than others

If all schools were at the same standard, which your charter school idea seems to seek to do in the most roundabout way possible, "choice" would be unnecessary. Every public school should meet the same standards.

Actually no there aren't other ways to bring about the flexibility needed without eradicating the public school bearucracy

I don't get what the article is suppose to prove? I just explained to you that to improve schools you have to eliminate the public school bearucracy and switch to independently run charter school and private schools, that article is bolstering my argument

Thats not what the article showed at all. There is nothing in the article that says public schools can't be like charter schools- it just discusses the various issues and roadblocks between the two. However its not impossible

We need to eliminate the public school system as we know it,

Thats your opinion, not a fact. In my opinion its better to address the problems of the current system, than to destroy it and create a new one, as if the new system is guaranteed to be problem free

you are the one that is defending the public school system so you need to explain how you plan to bring up the standards not me, I'm saying it needs to go in the garbage

Im not defending it, I'm just saying it's not impossible to fix and there are other ways forward than charter schools.

 

[theworldismine13]

Again, the only reason school choices are necessary is because certain schools are so much worse than others

If all schools were at the same standard, which your charter school idea seems to seek to do in the most roundabout way possible, "choice" would be unnecessary. Every public school should meet the same standards.

i dont understand what this is suppose to mean, school choice is important because it frees people from the public school bureaucracy

i have no idea what it means that choice is unnecessary, you are obviously some kind of fascist, its up to the parents to decide whether the school meets their standard, if every public school met the standards parents should still have a choice of where they send their kids to school, there is no reason why you should have one school per municipality, there should be as many schools as possible and it should be a free open system and complete school choice

school choice should be a benefit of being a citizen in and of itself and it means more freedom for citizens

Thats not what the article showed at all. There is nothing in the article that says public schools can't be like charter schools- it just discusses the various issues and roadblocks between the two. However its not impossible

the article showed how the bureaucracy stands in the way of public schools reforming themselves, they cant even do something as simple as refurbishing a bathroom, if you go into a black public school and the bathroom looks like crap now we know why, because the the school has to go through bureaucracy to fix their bathroom, while an independent charter school simply fixes their bathroom

i said that the bureaucracy of the public school system stops school reform, the article bolstered my argument

the public school system has failed black children, so therefore there is nothing in the public system that black people need to defend

Thats your opinion, not a fact. In my opinion its better to address the problems of the current system, than to destroy it and create a new one, as if the new system is guaranteed to be problem free

and yeah its my opinion and yeah we disagree, you want to "improve" an old decrepit system that has failed black children and condemns black children into bad schools until they get better (which they never will), i want to destroy the system and start fresh

i never said it would be problem free, i said it would be better and that it would mean more freedom and choice for black parents, i never suggested it would be problem free and that isnt the standard for charters schools, charters school simply have to show that they are better

Im not defending it, I'm just saying it's not impossible to fix and there are other ways forward than charter schools.

yes you are defending it and you haven't suggested anything concrete because lets be real, as your corny exclamations of "its not impossible" show, you dont really have any ideas, you are at an intellectual dead end just like the decrepit public school bureaucracy that you are defending, the only idea you have had is some gibberish about "equal resources", as if somehow money solves problems

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

i dont understand what this is suppose to mean, school choice is important because it frees people from the public school bureaucracy

i have no idea what it means that choice is unnecessary, you are obviously some kind of fascist, its up to the parents to decide whether the school meets their standard, if every public school met the standards parents should still have a choice of where they send their kids to school, there is no reason why you should have one school per municipality, there should be as many schools as possible and it should be a free open system and complete school choice

school choice should be a benefit of being a citizen in and of itself and it means more freedom for citizens

So public school systems not offering a library of choices of schools = fascism?

And there is a reason why you should have a limited number of schools per municipalities. $$$$. Plus again, if the school in my municipality is run to the exact same standard as all the other schools within reasonable distance, why would I want to send my kid further away? Why not just standardize the quality/curriculums across municipalities?

the article showed how the bureaucracy stands in the way of public schools reforming themselves, they cant even do something as simple as refurbishing a bathroom, if you go into a black public school and the bathroom looks like crap now we know why, because the the school has to go through bureaucracy to fix their bathroom, while an independent charter school simply fixes their bathroom

Dawg I have done energy efficiency contracting for NYC public schools. If "the bathroom looks like crap" it's probably because the school is in a poor area and their district doesn't have money for upkeep. I have seen the resource problem first hand.

i said that the bureaucracy of the public school system stops school reform, the article bolstered my argument

the public school system has failed black children, so therefore there is nothing in the public system that black people need to defend

How about access to free education? That seems worth defending, and charter schools would limit that.

and yeah its my opinion and yeah we disagree, you want to "improve" an old decrepit system that has failed black children and condemns black children into bad schools until they get better (which they never will), i want to destroy the system and start fresh

i never said it would be problem free, i said it would be better and that it would mean more freedom and choice for black parents, i never suggested it would be problem free and that isnt the standard for charters schools, charters school simply have to show that they are better

"Charter schools have to show that they are better?" So they aren't?

And you are assigning subjective values and adjectives in an objective manner. The public school system doesn't doom black children into bad schools; a lack of standards, resources and community engagement does.

yes you are defending it and you haven't suggested anything concrete because lets be real, as your corny exclamations of "its not impossible" show, you dont really have any ideas, you are at an intellectual dead end just like the decrepit public school bureaucracy that you are defending, the only idea you have had is some gibberish about "equal resources", as if somehow money solves problems

I've suggested plenty of concrete things several times over. Equalize resources across municipalities- kids in public schools in the Bronx should have the same books, equipment, quality of teachers, curriculum etc as kids in TriBeCa. Then the kids in the Bronx won't have to go to a TriBeCa charter school to get a TriBeCa quality public school education.

Your suggestion makes no sense- suppose it played out. All that would happen would be all the kids would flood the "good" schools, bringing us right back to square one with problems like overcrowding, lack of resources, etc. It would be hell for whoever is planning/running the school. Your system makes no sense. There is already a decent system in place, it just needs to be fixed.

 

[theworldismine13]

So public school systems not offering a library of choices of schools = fascism?

no you saying that parents should only have the "choice" of going to a school in their municipality is fascist

And there is a reason why you should have a limited number of schools per municipalities. $$$$. Plus again, if the school in my municipality is run to the exact same standard as all the other schools within reasonable distance, why would I want to send my kid further away? Why not just standardize the quality/curriculums across municipalities?

i have no opinion on where you or anybody else should send their kid to school, and again if every school had the same standards school choice would still be important

every school should be independently run, the school bureaucracy should have minimal input on what happens at the school, i have no idea what type of school or what type of curriculum a parent wants, that is something for the parent to decide

Dawg I have done energy efficiency contracting for NYC public schools. If "the bathroom looks like crap" it's probably because the school is in a poor area and their district doesn't have money for upkeep. I have seen the resource problem first hand.

im going by the article you posted, it showed how in the same exact building bureaucracy stopped a public school from fixing their bathrooms, it wasnt the money, it was the bureaucracy

Dawg I have done energy efficiency contracting for NYC public schools. If "the bathroom looks like crap" it's probably because the school is in a poor area and their district doesn't have money for upkeep. I have seen the resource problem first hand.

and that school in the poor area should be shut down and replaced with a charter school or the kids given vouchers for private schools

How about access to free education? That seems worth defending, and charter schools would limit that.

i have no idea what that means, how would charter limit education, charter schools would expand education

"Charter schools have to show that they are better?" So they aren't?

yeah charter schools have to show they are better, and they are better

And you are assigning subjective values and adjectives in an objective manner. The public school system doesn't doom black children into bad schools; a lack of standards, resources and community engagement does.

everybody agrees that you need those things, the issue is how do you do it, you arent saying anything by making superficial statements like that, you have to explain how public schools will improve standards, you have to show what ideas you have to increase resources and you have to show what new ideas you have to increase community engagement

if not you arent really saying anything

I've suggested plenty of concrete things several times over. Equalize resources across municipalities- kids in public schools in the Bronx should have the same books, equipment, quality of teachers, curriculum etc as kids in TriBeCa. Then the kids in the Bronx won't have to go to a TriBeCa charter school to get a TriBeCa quality public school education.

equalizing resources is a superficial statement that has no real meaning, kids in the bronx should to whatever school they want to go to, who are you to tell anybody where they should go to school?

Your suggestion makes no sense- suppose it played out. All that would happen would be all the kids would flood the "good" schools, bringing us right back to square one with problems like overcrowding, lack of resources, etc. It would be hell for whoever is planning/running the school. Your system makes no sense. There is already a decent system in place, it just needs to be fixed.[

my idea is already being played out in new orleans
New Orleans goes all in on charter schools.
New Orleans goes all in on charter schools. Is it showing the way? - CSMonitor.com

There is already a decent system in place, it just needs to be fixed.

you need to take a seat

 

[ORDER_66]

These republicans are corrupted and racists, why would I as a black man associate with these rich white fukks who could give a shyt about the black people's communities and plight. Huh? The dems are the same way too. these politicians dont give a shyt about the people who vote them in office unless your the head of a powerful union or lobbying firm they dont care....

 

[Mikael Blowpiff]

I really hate the two party system

If the problem facing black kids is shyt schools, who gives a fukk about charter schools. Why not just make the regular schools better so that kids dont need the charter schools

But markets doe...

 

[Wargames]

The second this guy started equating all black neighborhoods to ghettos

This article wasn't written for black people...... shyt I'll be honest I am not sure it was written by a black person either

 

[The Real]

I really hate the two party system

If the problem facing black kids is shyt schools, who gives a fukk about charter schools. Why not just make the regular schools better so that kids dont need the charter schools

And the black job problem goes way beyond minimum wage, so to try and force the issue through that needle eye to better pump it up for one side or another is another failure. USA measures economic activity based on output, when in reality it should apply much more weight to job growth. But then we cant even measure employment honestly as the truth is way more sinister than UE2/UE3 imply

shyts frustrating

This is such a smoke screen issue. Stanford did a big ass study on charters and concluded that most of them perform exactly the same as area public schools. But that won't stop the charter cheerleaders, though. What a waste.

Lol@ abstract choice being better than performance.

 

[FaTaL]

republicans will never get the black vote

its engrained in black people that republicans are racist at a young age

is it true? it kinda seems like it