Thomas Sowell: Welfare makes excuses for things that are wrong.

Is Thomas Sowell right about Welfare?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 32.4%
  • No

    Votes: 12 35.3%
  • Partially right

    Votes: 11 32.4%

  • Total voters
    34
  • Poll closed .

philmonroe

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Oh absolutely. I say it all the time, and this is with respect to the entire American population, but the only way for things to get better is for them
to get way worse. Everyone who is currently comfortable with the system have little attachment to the ills of those who aren't comfortable.
This doesnt mean that plenty of people couldn't make something of themselves, but even if we win today, we aren't changing anything if we take our
ball and go home once the money is in our pocket.


The country lucked itself into prosperity a few times, many of those eras experienced in post-war economies in which we had the advantage because
another country was blown to bits. The schism is too great at the moment for any real change to happen. Nobody likes change that doesn't produce
tangible and immediate benefits for themselves. This goes for blacks, whites, etc. So in the case of opinions like Thomas Sowell, there is no real
right or wrong answer on how to do these things, the problem is inaction. We never know what works best to alleviate struggling people because
we take baby steps, save for, once again, major programs in post-war economies. The New Deal comes to mind.
You know we usually agree but I disagree a little. I think people can change things if they take their ball home but just from a you can do it too point. If you see somebody from your hood make it out doing something that you can do it makes you think I too could do that. It might not help in ways some would want but I really think people seeing others similar to,them make it can do a lot of good. The rest of bold I can agree with.
 

William F. Russell

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I believe him singling out black people as being dependent on the state means people won't take him seriously.

Well, he is a member of the black community. And he is an economist.

Just because what he says isn't popular with other blacks, it doesn't mean that he's attacking the black community on the whole.
 

DEAD7

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From an economist stand point, I did Econ too sorry I don't agree. Maybe 10-20 years ago but most people who know someone on welfare in 2015 will let you know the good ole days of just sitting on welfare are long gone.

Especially in major cities with gentrification, rising house prices and rising rent welfare just isn't worth it anymore and the welfare queen stereotype is dying fast.

Most of the family members of mine who claimed benefits in the 90s work now.

As people said welfare exists for a reason and as someone who had grew up around people who had to use it when they fell on hard times im glad exists.
:steviej:
 

At30wecashout

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I know what I'm about to say is sorta some c00n shyt.....

but

once upon a time, a young blackking wanted to be a GOP politician. :blessed: I'm more conservative ( if you can't tell by the gun threads, and abortion threads, and other shyt )
but i'm also hood... and use to be poor -- hence stances like this.

What Thomas Sowell is doing isn't right or wrong BUt it's called political posturing. it leads to nothing. i used to be very good at this in debates.
He is 1) identifying an easy target ( wellfare queens, poor people)
2) having a target that automatically generates an image due to media ( like black hood attitude having welfare whore with 46 kids by 43 baby daddies)
3) using something that takes Away or generates fear in most --- and using that to push a larger AGENDA. ( we have done this with islam terrorist and other stuff. )

4) have an agenda ( this dude believes in tickle down economics and pure bootstrap politics for the poor. thats what this is all about...... Even though Sowell is on record saying that what they want is not tickle down economics.............................LOL which it's not but due to 'political posturing from the otherside.(left) ......... thats what we know conservative economic as... And so on and back n forth)

And this isn't even what makes him bad............. because i agree with the basic principles of conservative politics..........

But if you dive deeper you see the REAL agendas and methods of how they want to get this done. Its to abandon the poor and especially minorities into a perm 3rd world statues while the rest of us 'good hard workers' enjoy even more luxury. This is why Ferguson rights - HE calls "ghetto riots'. When speaking on slavery.... he says 'quit complaining about that and move on".... anything that actually created or helps keep the situations going he ignores the history and calls it irrelevant. Type of dude that thinks the stock market and top businesses making profits means that Americans are enjoying a great economy. Any criticism of the police , justice systems, or law enforcement he calls -- Liberal leftist talking points. :skip:


that's whats under the surface of this so called conservative politics in the United Sates
. it only sounds good and sounds like 'social responsibility' if you ignore the agenda.

peace.
I would say on the contrary, that is not the position of a c00n. The narrative of this board and the general lack of direction of black people
have led us to very broadly accept "c00n" to cover anything from liking people of another race to getting out of your neighborhood and never
looking back. A c00n makes it their mission to entertain whites at the cost of his own dignity, and the morale of his people who see his behavior on display.
Your leaning towards conservative politics isn't quite on the same level, but for reasons I may get into in another post.

Sowell does happen to have the view that these handouts lead to complacency, which is true in a lot of ways, but only because it is a symptom of a system
that does not offer hope to all of its people. Earlier in the thread I think @Wenzel Dashington said we should take anything from the crackers. Or something like that.
The thing about it is all of this usually comes with strings, strings in which you have to play by the very system that keeps you in a disadvantage unless you live
within a very specific framework.

I love my old neighborhood. I wouldn't move back. Dummies, druggies, and crabs. All black people. They are typically poor, and if you are doing well, won't ask you
for guidance, but will instead look upon you with green eyes of envy or steal from you outright. Some people are this way due to the system, others would have been
this way no matter what, but accountability lacks within our community, so when a person is conscious enough to recognize there is an issue, them choosing to
take the sleazy way to survival tells you what could become of their character even if they had a greater opportunity and swiftly had it taken from them.

Now Sowell is disconnected from a lot of what is real, but this doesn't make him so much a c00n or anything as it does a man who thinks *his* priorities,
bootstraps and accountability, will be the magic bullet that puts blacks on top. There is an active minority of very powerful people who will see to that not
happening, and a very complacent majority of people who either can't help or won't help or are waiting for someone else to make the first move.

The key to this shyt is realizing since there are no right or wrong ways to go about this, and that until we try different things, rather than sit on our asses
and let ourselves be victimized further, we will never find that galvanizing solution that brings everyone a moment of clarity, and an ideal they are willing
to set aside their own comfort to see come to life.
 

William F. Russell

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From an economist stand point, I did Econ too sorry I don't agree. Maybe 10-20 years ago but most people who know someone on welfare in 2015 will let you know the good ole days of just sitting on welfare are long gone.

Especially in major cities with gentrification, rising house prices and rising rent welfare just isn't worth it anymore and the welfare queen stereotype is dying fast.

Most of the family members of mine who claimed benefits in the 90s work now.

As people said welfare exists for a reason and as someone who had grew up around people who had to use it when they fell on hard times im glad exists.

Why do they say the "good ole days" are gone? They still obtain income on a regular basis, food and housing without having to be employed.
 

Theraflu

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Well, he is a member of the black community. And he is an economist.

Just because what he says isn't popular with other blacks, it doesn't mean that he's attacking the black community on the whole.

I don't see him as attacking us at all. I'm saying his advice is outdated.

Maybe with the older generations but people in Generation Y have no Interest in sitting on welfare all day.

The amount of people under 30 who have any interest in claiming welfare is small.

He is rehashing old advice which brings nothing to the table. In 2015 welfare isn't a big a problem as it was in 1995 or 1985
 

Blackking

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the more economically integrated with others the more you sleep on responsibility and group economics.



Here is another issue........

look at the options of blacks since 1850 - 2015.

almost 100% of the people on that "personal responsibility wave" and do for self shyt ---- were divisive and controversial.

We've had Thomas Sowells like 800 times, lol. The reason it doesn't catch on is because these people ignore the realities of the situations and the histories......... and so without ackhnologing the real shyt.... the masses will ignore u and not take action.

we had gansta preachers before ( not like the Crooks and scam artist we have now in the Church) ........ look at places like black wall street ( tusla OK). They preached the right things............. BUT any chance for integration of Our economic they hoped on quicker than a coli militant in a ghetto gaggers thread:troll:. We continued that with MLK and civil rights --- willing to not be "too" pro black and willing to be calling 'minorities' and willing to placate just enough to make our lives easier through legislation. Most of us hoped on this because few can participate and All will benefit and also because when you are living in the land of your oppressors ANYTHING ELSE is scary and takes too much damn effort.

We in the 1910 n 20's had some others.. then in 1930s had people like Elijah Muhammad that said... fukk that we built this nation and civilized the world....... lets be the 2015 Jews alll the way back in 1930. Lets infiltrate everything BUt never integrate into anything. Lets buy up a whole bunch of property and never allow anyone to even offer us 'civil 'rights........ because we are humans. We should get black human rights.
Most blacks rejected all these types.... most blacks rejected Marcus Garey Even. Most blacks even rejected black conservative Malcom X - because that shyt is hard and it's scary to be out here like We are black and willing to build our own............. rather than to simply say....... "please" let us get a piece of the riches and biggest pie on the planet ( because that grantees that at least maybe ur kids could be rich while most of ur people suffer)


So we selected no ideology and selected no group Even when we did accept mlk we ( the masses) only accepted the nice versions mainstream media showed us. Most of America wasn't in damn Selma, lol or birmingham.
This white washing of history and leaders+ welfare + social programs + being allowed to work for similar wages + being 2nd class citizens as opposed to pets --- was Great and sounded Great to us all the way up

until 1980.



so we only been putting in real work for like 35 years and thats still only a few people just like before.
 

At30wecashout

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You know we usually agree but I disagree a little. I think people can change things if they take their ball home but just from a you can do it too point. If you see somebody from your hood make it out doing something that you can do it makes you think I too could do that. It might not help in ways some would want but I really think people seeing others similar to,them make it can do a lot of good. The rest of bold I can agree with.
I get you. I just find that in the interest of change, those who hunger for it the most are those who NEED it the most.
If I suddenly have a windfall of millions, leave the hood, flee to greener pastures and give up my fight because "I finally got mine" then
I did not do anything to further positive change. That doesn't mean I can't still fight and give to causes, but it is very likely that
a man will want to enjoy himself when he finally doesn't have to scrape and scratch for every little thing.

It is absolutely everyone's prerogative to live out their days how they want, but the most comfortable, and least inconvenienced of us,
will opt not to participate because they fear either rocking the boat and changing things for themselves, or they aren't as invested
in the advancement of a positive agenda because they currently have the means to ignore it.
 

Scientific Playa

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:dwillhuh:

But is his ARGUMENT incorrect? If it is, why do you believe so?

his argument is that a certain segment of the population shouldn't have access to a government lifeline. if you knew first hand anything about the history of racism and economic discrimination in this country you wouldn't ask me that question. other ethnic groups have been able to improve their economic condition through hard work and with favorable capital and loan schemes and hiring practices that benefited them throughout the decades. if they were so superior to AA why did they have to leave other continents to come over here? have you witnessed the riots and austerity mess in europe the past few years? one example is red lining where banks wouldn't finance mortgages to certain areas of inner cities and rot and decay ensued. more recently we've witnessed the predator loans aimed at mostly minorities. the b.s. doesn't seem to end.
 

CrimsonTider

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On one hand, I feel that the Cac government owes us. On the other hand, I know that welfare tends to promote laziness and complacency. It's like taking candy from the devil. Would there still be housing projects if there was no Section 8?


How does welfare promote that?
I don't think its outlandish to say we respected ourselves more back then :ehh:

It is outlandish to say
 

Sonic Boom of the South

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Rosenbreg's, Rosenberg's...1825, Tulane
welfare is a perm crutch

but since cacs will never reform the policies that need to be changed
and continue to wage a war on the poor

shyt will be what it is


the funny thing is whites have always been the MAJORITY of welfare recipients
 

Blackking

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amoral*


...and we don't claim to have a mixed economy, we do. Period.
:heh:

amoral is bs and you know it. it's literally impossible to not have morals and ethics with something that is selected and developed by humans for the benefit of those humans and not other humans.


We do have a mixed economy. due to 1 /3 being pumped in by the Fed Government ----- but :dahell: Are we having this convo while pretending that corporations don't run and control that system and even direct our politics???
 
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