Tupac Shakur - "Changes" - Let's Talk About This Timeless Piece

[Mac Casper]

I know what it sounded like only reason I worded it like that is because after his death Pac every nikka who aint listen to any of his songs till years after his death were like he's the GOAT..and that comes from a pushing of that idea.

Not saying he's not a legend in his own right...dead or alive he paid his dues to be called a legend...

Only thing I argue with is the idea that if Pac didnt die..he would be relevant to this day -kanyeshrug-

but thats mere speculation on the career of a man who's dead which is not really up to speculation

Tupac's career was cut short at a time when he had extensive plans to move onto greater things in life and in music. He was far too proficient at the craft, it's clear that if he wasn't destined for death he would of continued to great things.

 

[blackslash]

Tupac's career was cut short at a time when he had extensive plans to move onto greater things in life and in music. He was far too proficient at the craft, it's clear that if he wasn't destined for death he would of continued to great things.

look at you sounding all deep talm bout some destiny

cut that out

 

[Mac Casper]

Do you think they would've let Tupac in the position that they let Jay-Z in?

Listen to this, - you need to hear the original to understand the level of musicianship that was in Tupac's direction. At 25 he represented something far beyond what Jay-Z is, Jay-Z's impact is great but it's more of an extension of his music rather than being a direct result of his music.

He has nothing that reaches that magnitude of "Changes", he doesn't have the depth and consistency of Tupac's catalog and it's not even close. Jay-Z's impact is as a figure, Tupac would've done so much more. Without question.

 

[Mac Casper]

look at you sounding all deep talm bout some destiny

cut that out

I'm not into rhetoric, take it to your debate class

Tupac's 4 year plan in 1996 (when he was 25)

was beyond what Jay-Z accomplished through 2012.

You must remember, it was Tupac that was talking about his position in rap as political leverage. It was Tupac who intended to be a bigger part of the political discussion in 2000.

I'm not saying Tupac was going to run for office but he would of represented a diplomacy for the disenfranchised. That's what he was talking about at 25, not to discredit Jay-Z but he's 43 now doing what Tupac was talking about at 25.

His music was also more popular throughout pop culture as was his perspective

We can talk if you'd like though

 

[blackslash]

Do you think they would've let Tupac in the position that they let Jay-Z in?

Listen to this, 2Pac - When Thugz Cry (Makaveli 3 day theory OG) - YouTube - you need to hear the original to understand the level of musicianship that was in Tupac's direction. At 25 he represented something far beyond what Jay-Z is, Jay-Z's impact is great but it's more of an extension of his music rather than being a direct result of his music.

He has nothing that reaches that magnitude of "Changes", he doesn't have the depth and consistency of Tupac's catalog and it's not even close. Jay-Z's impact is as a figure, Tupac would've done so much more. Without question.

I doubt as a musician..maybe in life...but as a musician I doubt it

Ppl grow...Ppl change we're speculating what Pac would be 16 years from now if he was alive

Again as music changed its hard to decide whether Pac would have kept up with the stages hip hop were heading to..and if he really would be as relevant as a Jay Z

I have my own feelings about Pac and what he represented I dnt agree with..which is why I dont listen to him much anymore..

Seeing as how i reject the message which is pretty much the driving force of his music..I cant rock with it because outside of the message theres hardly any technique to wow me

Now as I grow older I realize Pac is the antithesis of my character..which prolly wouldnt be true if he was able to mature as the years went on

But anyways like I said..speculating the what ifs after a human being's death is futile..too many elements of life that we dont account for when we make that type of speculation

 

[blackslash]

I'm not into rhetoric, take it to your debate class

Tupac's 4 year plan in 1996 (when he was 25)

was beyond what Jay-Z accomplished through 2012.

You must remember, it was Tupac that was talking about his position in rap as political leverage. It was Tupac who intended to be a bigger part of the political discussion in 2000.

I'm not saying Tupac was going to run for office but he would of represented a diplomacy for the disenfranchised. That's what he was talking about at 25, not to discredit Jay-Z but he's 43 now doing what Tupac was talking about at 25.

His music was also more popular throughout pop culture as was his perspective

We can talk if you'd like though

U read my post wrong..I was jus makin jokes chill breh

U goin harder than I do when a Nas stan says Jay is wack

 

[Mac Casper]

I doubt as a musician..maybe in life...but as a musician I doubt it

Ppl grow...Ppl change we're speculating what Pac would be 16 years from now if he was alive

Again as music changed its hard to decide whether Pac would have kept up with the stages hip hop were heading to..and if he really would be as relevant as a Jay Z

I have my own feelings about Pac and what he represented I dnt agree with..which is why I dont listen to him much anymore..

Seeing as how i reject the message which is pretty much the driving force of his music..I cant rock with it because outside of the message theres hardly any technique to wow me

Now as I grow older I realize Pac is the antithesis of my character..which prolly wouldnt be true if he was able to mature as the years went on

But anyways like I said..speculating the what ifs after a human being's death is futile..too many elements of life that we dont account for when we make that type of speculation

People talked about his frustrations with the music industry and how he may of preferred to move onto Hollywood, as we've seen there has been a lot of opportunities for hip-hop artists in that. As articulate as he may of been in interviews I believe lyricism was his truest form of expression and I couldn't see him stepping away from that for too long. When you get a chance check out those two new sets of interviews that Chuck Philips did with Tupac (1993 and 1995). It'll give you a better look at Tupac personally. Tupac probably agrees more with you about how the media perpetuated his image than he agrees with most of his biggest fans.

 

[R=G]

Fallacious term..go back to TSC where u can actually outsmart ppl with ur foolishness

Not here where my Jay stannery reigns

When you say "real rap fans" you obviously have a sort of personal bias to what you consider real or fake..a bias that holds no weight.

Rap fans are rap fans at the end of the day..and Nas aint great in most rap fans..

2pac is sure cuz he died and he's pushed on us to be a legend

Now when I say most rap fans you prolly get angry and your rebuttal will be

they aint real hip hop heads..and to which I'll say..who the fck are you to say who's a real and who isnt a real rap fan based on their preferences

Some have a bias toward the technique aspect of rap
Some have a bias toward the song making aspect of rap
Some have a bias toward the mic presence aspect of rap
Some have a bias toward the flow aspect of rap

And based on those biases is how you'll choose your personal fave artist

I pick Jay for me personally cuz he's the complete package imo

Anyways like I said go back to TSC..or go back to watching your disgusting ghetto gaggers porn vids that dehumanize and devalue black women and desensitize your eyes to degrading acts such as that

I was up on Jay long before you ever heard of him and before he found commercial success after BIG died. He was all about "Sunshine" and trying to find his way. He was influenced by Pac and tried to use his name and even one of his songs for collabo shyt for that leech Beyonce Knowles.

Not quite sure what Jay has to do with Tupac in the first place..you just brought him up out of the blue. No matter what...no matter how you spin..Jay Z will never be as respected or adored as Tupac Shakur. He had to sell out to a degree to stay relevant by bigging him up when HE KNEW he didnt like him. What kind of shyt is that? Is that a Marcy thing or what?

 

[Busby]

This song is on the official playlist of the POPE.....

 

[blackslash]

I was up on Jay long before you ever heard of him and before he found commercial success after BIG died. He was all about "Sunshine" and trying to find his way. He was influenced by Pac and tried to use his name and even one of his songs for collabo shyt for that leech Beyonce Knowles.

Not quite sure what Jay has to do with Tupac in the first place..you just brought him up out of the blue. No matter what...no matter how you spin..Jay Z will never be as respected or adored as Tupac Shakur. He had to sell out to a degree to stay relevant by bigging him up when HE KNEW he didnt like him. What kind of shyt is that? Is that a Marcy thing or what?

Die and be a hero or live long enough to see urself become the villain

Thats all there is to it

And I was talm bout Nas iin my post not Pac


Hey theres ppl I havent liked that have died way too young..Death changes your perception and makes it easier to let sht go
And what in da fck does "had to sell out to a degree"

JAY came into THE RAP GAME SAYIN IM GOIN TO RUN THIS SHT
That was his mission from day one...and he made all the changes and adaptations to his craft to make sure of that

He didnt sell out...He's always been bout dat

Yall love to think the worst when it comes to these celebs dont ya

Unless they die young anyways

 

[Jone2three45]

I think it was just the timing, an artist like Sting didn't want his song associated with Tupac. Once Tupac died it freed him, allowing some people to see him in a different light. People aren't always capable of forming their own thoughts about the things that go on around them, that's why most human's develop a great sense of 'hindsight'

Dopest post of the year.

 

[Jone2three45]

Do you think they would've let Tupac in the position that they let Jay-Z in?

Listen to this, 2Pac - When Thugz Cry (Makaveli 3 day theory OG) - YouTube - you need to hear the original to understand the level of musicianship that was in Tupac's direction. At 25 he represented something far beyond what Jay-Z is, Jay-Z's impact is great but it's more of an extension of his music rather than being a direct result of his music.

He has nothing that reaches that magnitude of "Changes", he doesn't have the depth and consistency of Tupac's catalog and it's not even close. Jay-Z's impact is as a figure, Tupac would've done so much more. Without question.

underrated post of the year.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Song is proof that lyricism is the least important aspect of rap when it comes to making a classic rap record

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Nah its not

WHen I say lyrically Im talking

Heavy use of alliteration
Double/triple entendres
wordplay/homophones
etc etc.


this is not lyrical..the fact that you think this is lyrical makes me understand why some of you guys stan Pac..

His message is what drove his song...not his technique
His delivery in his voice is and the time it was made is what drove this song
This song was not lyrical..dnt ever make that mistake and impute that aspect of rap on Pac....ever in your life

Lyricism is the technique aspect of rapping apart from the voice and flow(tho flow does in time relate to alliteration)

then you'd be wrong.

 

[megatronium]

is one of the greatest of all time. It's not really debateable.