this honestly will lead to the repeal of Obamacare and ultimately we have to push for universal healthcare now or not.
U.S. top court rules for companies on birth control mandate
- Thread starter ExodusNirvana
- Start date
this honestly will lead to the repeal of Obamacare and ultimately we have to push for universal healthcare now or not.
OneManGang
Veteran
1. That is a cop out. They had this issue go to the supreme court b/c it went against their sacred beliefs. I'm sure they have the money to find out what companies their money is being invested into.
2. They are not a catholic conglomerate. This lawsuit would be perfectly fine if they only hired catholics that were against birth control. They don't. Without the employees they are denying the service to, their business wouldn't exist. It's a perfectly reasonable statement summed up by Judge Ginsburg in these two quotes:
- "The exemption sought by Hobby Lobby and Conestoga would…deny legions of women who do not hold their employers' beliefs access to contraceptive coverage"
- "Religious organizations exist to foster the interests of persons subscribing to the same religious faith. Not so of for-profit corporations. Workers who sustain the operations of those corporations commonly are not drawn from one religious community."
3. What? Any company that has operations in China knows the nature of the Chinese government, especially regarding lax human rights controls and environmental regulations. Come on son. You think they just use China as a sign of good will to help the poor Chinese people? Its all to make as much profit as possible, while turning a blind eye to the millions of abortions and pills used by the Chinese every year. You have operations in China, you know exactly where your money is going, and that is to the Chinese government. Hobby Lobby is playing the game every other major retailer in America plays. Cheap labor, high profit at whatever price I can legally get away with.
To this point, have you read their response? They believe that the morning after pills (Plan B) are a form of abortion, because it denies a fertilized egg to implant in the uterus. This isn't true. Ella works differently, but i'm not sure if it has post fertilization effects. In any case, "Ella is now available in heavily Roman Catholic Italy, for example. And on Thursday, Germany's conference of bishops said both drugs are acceptable to give to rape victims in Catholic hospitals."
Let religious extremists run your country brehs.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...g-after-pills-dont-cause-abortion-studies-say
I know you're playing devils advocate, so this isn't directed to you. But I swear to gawd being ignorant is the easiest way to live with a clean conscience
PartyHeart
All Star
Are you kidding? Erectile dysfunction has repeatedly been linked to bad diet, being overweight, lack of exercise, and behavioral factors ike smoking. Viagra was only ever even discovered to treat hypertension. It very much can be prevented and thus according to your logic should not be included.
Not to mention, the drug is recreational by nature, but is most worthy of being covered than birth control?? Why is your boner more protected than my womb?
And its funny that the same people that want to award finding loopholes for companies are the same ones that want to preach accountability to people advocating for student loan forgiveness.
To me, it doesn’t matter what the government is mandating that employers purchase. I don’t even particularly care about why an employer is opposed to providing a specific product or service to their employees. It could be for religious reasons or it could not be. It also makes no difference to me whether I agree with their reasoning or not.
The fact of the situation is that the government is forcing someone to pay for something that they oppose. I find that to be a form of bullying and unethical.
The underlying issue has nothing to do with birth control. The question is should the government be allowed to force people to purchase things against their will?
Some(including myself) say no.
Most on this board, say yes.
The fact of the situation is that the government is forcing someone to pay for something that they oppose. I find that to be a form of bullying and unethical.
The underlying issue has nothing to do with birth control. The question is should the government be allowed to force people to purchase things against their will?
Some(including myself) say no.
Most on this board, say yes.
OneManGang
Veteran
It's not the same thing at all. Taxes go towards things tax payers don't like all the time. I guess we should be able to opt out of taxes too. I know your ass would probably agree with that statement as wellTo me, it doesn’t matter what the government is mandating that employers purchase. I don’t even particularly care about why an employer is opposed to providing a specific product or service to their employees. It could be for religious reasons or it could not be. It also makes no difference to me whether I agree with their reasoning or not.
The fact of the situation is that the government is forcing someone to pay for something that they oppose. I find that to be a form of bullying and unethical.
The underlying issue has nothing to do with birth control. The question is should the government be allowed to force people to purchase things against their will?
Some(including myself) say no.
Most on this board, say yes.
Hobby Lobby makes money off of the labor of people who don't necessarily share their beliefs and views. That money should be used to pay for essential healthcare needs.
Forcing employers to cover a service they oppose, is like taxing the populace how exactly?It's not the same thing at all. Taxes go towards things tax payers don't like all the time. I guess we should be able to opt out of taxes too. I know your ass would probably agree with that statement as well
Hobby Lobby makes money off of the labor of people who don't necessarily share their beliefs and views. That money should be used to pay for essential healthcare needs.
But moreover, it brings up questions on why health insurance should be tied to a job in the first place. For those concerned about employer meddling in their health care decisions, how about calling for a separation of health insurance and employment?
Forcing employers to cover a service they oppose, is like taxing the populace how exactly?
Well Roberts said Obamacare is essentially a tax so...
Taxes go to stuff the people object to all the time.. wars, foreign aid etc.
Alright.I prefer the liberal crusade for higher wages so workers can afford healthcare over this force some one else to pay nonsense, but w/e
OneManGang
Veteran
ThisForcing employers to cover a service they oppose, is like taxing the populace how exactly?
Insurance companies/lobbyists would never allow this. In addition, healthy employees...good for your business. I don't see why you wouldn't cover the people who represent your company.
Also, Hobby Lobby pays over minimum wage to their employees. They arent a bad company to work for, minus this ludicrous campaign against BC.
ltheghost
Payin Debts.... N40
The KKK would have issues with your definition of White Supremacy. It's all related, secular or not. But I digress, the reason this decision is stupid is because it gives corporations MORE rights. ----- It's worth noting that this ruling only applies to closely held private companies, or businesses that are owned by a small number of people who are mostly involved in the day-to-day operations of that business. Roughly 90 percent of American companies qualify as closely held, so this ruling will apply to a pretty sizable portion of the American business community. But it won't affect coverage requirements for publicly held companies, which include large companies traded on the stock market—as Kevin Russell over at SCOTUSblog writes, the Court is "leaving for another day whether larger, publicly traded corporations have religious beliefs."
Do you see what they are doing here with this decision. This isn't about you or me. This is about creating a system where OUR rights mean jackshyt in the face of a corporations rights. This is an attack on Obamacare and probably the President himself. The "Supreme" Court is out of control and have created an Oligarchy in this country with these types of rulings.
This wouldnt be an issue if not for Obamacare... 
I prefer the liberal crusade for higher wages so workers can afford healthcare over this force some one else to pay nonsense, but w/e
As I understand it:
Health care coverage is part of an employees compensation. The employer is simply a middle man who by buying in bulk is able to deliver lower prices to its employers. The cost for that coverage is coming out of employee salaries not the employers own pocket.
Hobby Lobby Still Covers Vasectomies And Viagra
The Huffington Post | By Alexander C. Kaufman Posted: 06/30/2014 3:52 pm EDT | Updated: 07/01/2014 2:59 pm EDT
Hobby Lobby -- now free to drop emergency "morning after" pills and intrauterine devices from its workers' health insurance plans -- has given no indication that it plans to stop helping its male employees obtain erectile dysfunction treatments.
The Supreme Court ruled Monday that the craft store chain, owned by evangelical Christians, doesn't have to pay for health care coverage of contraceptives prohibited by its owners' religion.
But pills and pumps that help a man stiffen his penis in preparation for sex are perfectly acceptable.
Hobby Lobby covers men's Viagra, just on the slim chance you were wondering exactly how fukked up today is.
-- Andi Zeisler (@andizeisler) June 30, 2014
RT if you believe the male justices would have ruled differently if #HobbyLobby case was about Viagra or Cialis.
-- Mark Takano (@RepMarkTakano) June 30, 2014
thank goodness the Hobby Lobby's god covers vasectomies. And viagra.
-- Lauren Dane (@laurendane) June 30, 2014
The Huffington Post | By Alexander C. Kaufman Posted: 06/30/2014 3:52 pm EDT | Updated: 07/01/2014 2:59 pm EDT
Hobby Lobby -- now free to drop emergency "morning after" pills and intrauterine devices from its workers' health insurance plans -- has given no indication that it plans to stop helping its male employees obtain erectile dysfunction treatments.
The Supreme Court ruled Monday that the craft store chain, owned by evangelical Christians, doesn't have to pay for health care coverage of contraceptives prohibited by its owners' religion.
But pills and pumps that help a man stiffen his penis in preparation for sex are perfectly acceptable.
Hobby Lobby covers men's Viagra, just on the slim chance you were wondering exactly how fukked up today is.
-- Andi Zeisler (@andizeisler) June 30, 2014
RT if you believe the male justices would have ruled differently if #HobbyLobby case was about Viagra or Cialis.
-- Mark Takano (@RepMarkTakano) June 30, 2014
thank goodness the Hobby Lobby's god covers vasectomies. And viagra.
-- Lauren Dane (@laurendane) June 30, 2014
Can someone tell me which part of the Bible says vasectomies and Viagra are a-okay with the big guy? #HobbyLobby
-- Victoria Aveyard (@VictoriaAveyard) June 30, 2014
Last year, a federal court granted Catholic groups the right to opt out of providing coverage for contraceptives that they equated with abortion or sterilization, such as IUDs and vasectomies. But the groups were happy to foot the bill for treatments that could lead to procreation.
Julie Rovner, a reporter at NPR, wrote a blog post in February 2012 explaining where Catholic groups drew the line on sexual health coverage:
-- Victoria Aveyard (@VictoriaAveyard) June 30, 2014
Last year, a federal court granted Catholic groups the right to opt out of providing coverage for contraceptives that they equated with abortion or sterilization, such as IUDs and vasectomies. But the groups were happy to foot the bill for treatments that could lead to procreation.
Julie Rovner, a reporter at NPR, wrote a blog post in February 2012 explaining where Catholic groups drew the line on sexual health coverage:
The answer on Viagra coverage is usually yes, Catholic leaders say. And they argue that's neither hypocritical nor sexist. Procreation is something the Catholic church encourages. And Viagra and other erectile dysfunction drugs can be of help.
A provision in the Affordable Care Act requires corporations to offer insurance plans that meet minimum coverage standards if those corporations take advantage of tax benefits for compensating employees in health insurance, rather than wages.
But the owners of Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood Specialties Store, a Pennsylvania wood manufacturer, challenged this provision, arguing that it violated their religious freedom.
Evangelical Christians have long argued that life begins at conception, and therefore that medical procedures that disrupt the first stages of pregnancy amount to murder. In the case of Hobby Lobby, this extends to a woman taking pills such as Plan B, Next Choice or Ella, any of which would prevent her ovaries from releasing an egg that could be fertilized after unprotected sex.
Perhaps taking a note from Catholic Church's opposition to sterilization, Hobby Lobby also objected to long-term birth control methods such as IUDs, which can cost women up to $1,000.
But that does not explain why Hobby Lobby doesn't object to covering the cost of its male employees' vasectomies.
The company did not immediately respond to a request for comment Monday.
A provision in the Affordable Care Act requires corporations to offer insurance plans that meet minimum coverage standards if those corporations take advantage of tax benefits for compensating employees in health insurance, rather than wages.
But the owners of Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood Specialties Store, a Pennsylvania wood manufacturer, challenged this provision, arguing that it violated their religious freedom.
Evangelical Christians have long argued that life begins at conception, and therefore that medical procedures that disrupt the first stages of pregnancy amount to murder. In the case of Hobby Lobby, this extends to a woman taking pills such as Plan B, Next Choice or Ella, any of which would prevent her ovaries from releasing an egg that could be fertilized after unprotected sex.
Perhaps taking a note from Catholic Church's opposition to sterilization, Hobby Lobby also objected to long-term birth control methods such as IUDs, which can cost women up to $1,000.
But that does not explain why Hobby Lobby doesn't object to covering the cost of its male employees' vasectomies.
The company did not immediately respond to a request for comment Monday.