Not only was Sting in the NWA for the entirety of both Lex/Flair feuds, Sting was ON THE SAME SHOWS that had the first feud headlining PPVs. You've been told this by multiple people, and everyone has easy access to the internet to look these things up. I have no idea why you keep saying Sting wasn't in the NWA when Lex and Flair feuded.
Bruh, I honestly had no idea what you were even asking me. Was I cognitive? Do you mean was I watching the NWA in the late 80s? No, but I've seen all of it and read plenty about it to form an opinion. Please don't try to play the "you can't have an opinion unless you were there live" card cause that's not gonna fly.
Anyway, you getting all mixed up going around in circles on different shyt bruh. The original reason for this thread was Lex Luger supposedly being buried and you didn't even mention him once in this post, so I'm not sure what your point even is right now, but let me try to break mine down as simply as possible.
All the Hogan stuff, is whatever. I don't see what that has to do with Lex Luger and I don't see anyone denying any of it, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up. Rocky clearly helped Hogan propel to superstardom, who would possibly argue that? But what exactly is the point? No matter how he got there, he became a major star with a brilliant WWF marketing machine behind him. Do you think Luger cleanly pinning Flair would have somehow put him on that level?
NWA was obviously the better product, but so what? So Luger wins the strap in 88. OK, now what? You keep fantasy booking all this shyt that they coulda, woulda, shoulda done but they didn't do it. Crockett spent a ton of money trying to go national and failed. They didn't have the booking, production values or marketing power to match what Vince and the WWF were doing, or to make Luger (or Sting) look like a major national star, and that's just a fact. And that wouldn't have changed whether Flair put Luger over or not.
Crockett would have probably survived a lot longer if they actually did the REVERSE, which is to NOT go national, stay regional and not try to match what WWF was doing. Because even after Crockett sold to Ted Turner, WWF still didn't do very good business in the NWA/WCW strongholds until the Attitude Era.
Dawg,...
I am dually replying to you both.
As I won't have two guys try to pull some bullshyt compound message.
then, keep talking and it is obvious both of you were not there to properly comment on the product.
or its permeation at all, from a grassroots fan perspective.
You do not have a horse in this race.
as neither of you even know of the accurate time line or the perception of the product.
Plus illustrate having a narrative of back then.
that clearly shows wwf bias and you don't even know why you have it all.
Yet, exhibit it and I clearly can point it out. all because you guys just jump weeks months and years around the relevant areas.
As you don't know the content or latch on points as they actually occurred in nature.
As I am talking from actual real memory of the product.
Which is totally different from how it maybe spliced on wwf programming where you can view it.
it has been said numerous times about the episodic quality having poor sequencing of their material after acquiring the libraries.
Which was not a bad thing as the wwf did the same all the time on their Saturday morning gateway show.
Which they were creating a monopoly of as time went by week by week. after hogun was deemed an immediate needle mover.
yet, it needs to be talked about to show the disconnect it has in the historical discussion and why i made a thread like this.
as it does not illustrate what was present on tv exactly and is tainted from a historical standpoint via corporate bias.
that detail is an essential lenchpin and gateway.
to why the wwf was ahead in severe oversaturated gateway fan perception.
Plus, perception of NWA product was always not ever going to be fully accurate fan sentiment wise.
as wwf owns the ability to change actual relevent history moving forward to their bias, inaccurrately.
as far as publication, in video and print.
all because it was always one sided and possibly swayed because it is compromised from a lack of professional journalism.
where a wrasslin rag could have been and were commissioned to be based at times on paid for pr work by promotions.
Where I am supplying a lack of knowledge and fan sentiment on par with meltz and regarded as such.
Plus, know the actual same technical booking know how and mechanics as a hands on study just like meltz.
I know just as many matches, match templates, finishes and match ending setups by the actual mechanics in sentiment and workrate as well.
plus how to recognize templates when they are amalgamated and brought back in ring from periodic piece study made to draw as a current work as well.
so i have the know how, and know of the disconnect to the history and fan perception which can sway history from people who were not cognitive.
Not to mention, a number of publications back then had disconnect.
if you want I can show you where.
as it relates to NWA and wwf products. Especially in the rock roll wrasslin era.
where a number of these guys really were not aware of what they had as a draw outside of wrasslin. nor in relation to wrasslin as a larger gateway product.
also, why hogun was a higher seller coupled with them.
just letting talent be swayed from poor talent relations on their part.
As they were to carni in nature at times to understand and remove themselves from their past legacy of business and see the business from the injection in the arm to ringsports based mediums rocky gave all ring sports based mediums not just boxing.
Which is why I continue to expound upon vkm really not knowing who or what rocky III was.
As vkm's talking point to Vince senior never mentioned hogun.
or trying to change the executive admin decision of firing hogun as the wrong thing when it ORIGINALLY HAPPENED.
Which mean vkm suffered as much if not more disconnect to Vince sr.
As it is known vkm is a recluse who also became further reclusive to the times and would stick to the rubrick of his father's outdated carni east coast booking rubrick.
Instead of knowing how to maneuver with a better quality product.
to create longevity of demand for the wwf.
after the effect of hulkamania was no longer a drawing component.
Which we know vkm never learned from that era.
how to properly market wwf after the marketing dominance In Fan perception waned from hulkamania and rocknroll wrasslin after rocky iii.
plus no other black ringsports entity being available to give it another boom period if used accurrately.
Plus I said all that to easily illustrate the similar disconnect of people in the know on the NWA booking committee.
As they continued to let flair cripple their fan perception of drawing babyfaces by taking him in almost as bad fashion as hogun as the goblin with flair.
As originally all this diplomatic flair discussion about the younger guys.
As far as sting, luger, and others is concerned.
Which over time to now has been changed to include a my biddy flair narrative.
When that is not indicative of the times and anyone who was around back then knows of this sentiment being changed as a marketing component later on for solidarity and legacy in marketing to show a united front from the past NWA to wce guys.
Which is also a ruse and we know so because it is other hot bf's from that era who shoot all the time on flair crippling the book in the NWA as bad as hogun just to remain at the top of the card just because when it made not marketing or fan perception sense.
While limiting the long term convincability of the product and all of the viable babyfaces as strong draws.
Which solidifies my point at luger being buried in my initial post content.
That both of you fail to discuss and also why I am bringing it up because I knew you were not fully cognitive of the product and you never brought up flair's crippling practices of the book that also rivaled hogun's goblin mantra and scope in the rib of him being called the orange goblin.
Including the fact, it has never been pr'd accurately as to vkm's actual idea about hogun.
The only reason, vkm moved with hogun was to baller block the awa.
Plus use hogun in his coup of the tv marketing deal and exclusivity of hogun. Which all could create the shot in the arm, to use as a tool.
Vkm never really had any idea that hogun originally was that superstar overnight popular from rocky III.
Plus you two never illustrated any connection to hogun and flair's crippling practice of the book being almost similar as well.
Which is what created the oversaturated fan disconnect and bias that existed between the wef and NWA.
Which could have easily been countered and almost could have swayed and changed what was going on.
As it showed that the NWA needed a changed in their perception of product and a company wide resetwhen duhtay had control of the book and booked himself to win the title.
Which had treadway and would have eventually if allowed to include luger as the golden boy bf.
would have and could have caught and daily surpassed the wwf as they had the better executed show.
With higher quality of matches, workrate and actual grapplers who would not have disconnect if booked with consistent convincability and parity to flair at the top of the card.
Yet when the needle dropped here and there as they failed to pull up and make the right decision.
Is why they failed and defeated their ownselves by following mcmahon's carni cheese east coast aesthetic.
When all they had to do was just present another principle to rival hogun and showcase a higher quality of product.
Then relaunch their fan sentiment perspective of their product to include a huge bf product and a yearly reset to the product base that starrcade could have easily done if marketed as such.
Yet, NWA continued to use errant gates reciepts and an inability to recognize grassroots oversaturated marketing survey to make a company global change and direction.
If they would have recognized and only matched in those two areas by using luger as the principal.
then following up accurately with a definitive product direction changing event.
Which would have included making a draw based off the bf champion and move away from the villain heel champion comes to your territory direction.
The NWA would have easily closed the gap and they could have distanced themselves from the wwf.
As they had a larger number of higher quality principals up and down the card of higher quality than the wwf incomparison.
All this over processing of how distance the NWA was from the wwf in totally inaccurate and you both illustrate disconnect.
as far as cognitively being there to properly talk about.
or illustrate your point talking about the product.
In 85, luger had encounters with flair and matches as well.
He was always booked as an immediate bf threat to the horsemen.
Until he lost to flair in that time period definitively.
Which hurt his fan perception and that was done intentionally.
As wrasslin was a ringsports based work not a sports entertainment work like now. You two both talk from a sports entertainment standpoint and that inability to connect to the ringsports aesthetic is evident in your posting.
Which is why I said and asked if you were cognitive then as your rant never supplied this aesthetic.
Luger was hurt from losing to flair in this continued manner and the idea at that time for a heel to continue to thwart the bf oh NWA.
As opposed to the bf reset of hogun and mania was a turnoff and flair knew this aesthetic and the NWA did not.
Which is also why luger was buried and then by spreadsheet blamed for being a failure as a draw afterward.
Plus, you continue to cite sting when luger first debuted and all this was occurring luger was being buried systematically as a draw in perception to being a dominant bf that the NWA needed.
Which is why luger was absorbed into the horsemen eventually.
Yet that whole idea of logging the new guy into the horsemen.
to authenicate them after they were a new promotional invading threat.
was what held the NWA back after magnum was injured.
Luger and koloff could have easily been marketed and booked to win the title and give them their baby face champion in 85-86 and definitely by 88.
Also, I notice since you WERE NOT cognitive
I also notice you don't know about flair influence of the book.
Or as the actual booker or former booker and booking committee member to hold younger talent back from drawing paydays as well.
It is one of the basis of clique rules that hall learned exclusively from flair when hall was flair's understudy.
Just like Austin at one point was flair understudy and by way of being the larger draw is also known as the protege of flair.
Yet, scsa was not as crippling to the book quality wise.
Which eventually scsa's knowledge of booking is what lead to him taking his ball and going home when errantly booked and feeling he was being phased out and Austin knew all about how to maneuver out of that environment without damaging his character perception /convincability and also his draw.
Now, stro is just talking out his ass,... As he has illustrated on this board he is not a quality in the know mark trying ro learn to be smart. He is just some jackass troll. Trying ro siphon erroneously off buggs talking points which I welcome because they factually have a basis of inquisition and are interesting in rant and discussion. Buggs I will give props to because you actually presented an area of talking points and comparative intrigue and knowledge about the product from study which I recognized but I could easily tell was not cognitive about the product from a grassroots FA perspective. Of which I have always provided more accurately.
than most so called wrasslin journalist and just like those so-called wrasslin journalist.
I also provided rants to illustrate my mastery of discussion of the business of wrasslin.
Plus showcased I did not have a disconnect in product they way the so-called wrasslin journalist did.
Plus I showed no bias, and talked about the product from an actual quality standpoint with the fan perception/convinability accurately as well. Buggs good discussion, glad to merc you out on it but don't let that goofball stro latch onto your talking points with is troll schtick or any troll for that matter.
Make him move around off your points and tell him you don't need his bullshyt posting trying to cosign like some bad henchmen adlibs from the two cons In jail in trading places saying yeah.
Art Barr
