Video: Clipse On CNN Tonight

No1

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But if you look at things holistically, it is a bit of an ivory tower-ist fallacy to pretend that if the deleterious mentality and life decisions promoted in hip-hop that mirror real life situations are STRICTLY problems DIRECTLY born of low socioeconomic status/inner city ills. As someone who grew up middle class in a mostly black city (in the same regional locale as Malice, actually), and was pretty comfortable in social environments ranging from the projects to field parties with white folks, I can't sit here and act like criminality, anti-academic mentalities, general Idontgiveafukkism, etc. was confined to the realm of single mother-head impoverished homes in redlined food deserts with shytty schools. I would be lying because I've seen far too many middle class black males from decent homes fukk up and do stupid shyt for no good reason at all...drop out of school, sell drugs, home invasions, murder and get murdered. They are middle class white wannabe gangsters who do similar stuff, but it's significantly more prevalent amongst black people.
You have yet to prove that any of this is because of hip hop though. If anything, it is a sign of the the continuous tradition of what is genuinely "black" or authentically black is defined by the "folks" or people at the bottom. Our relation to those people and our connection to them are a significant portion of the lives of most black people in some way or form. So you are right in the sense that hip hop--a culture derived from those at the bottom--acts to reinforce black culture in a way that it is not reinforcing culture for others, but it doesn't mean that people will act upon the most dangerous aspects of that culture in their personal lives. For all the talk of diversity and understanding on television, you can more closely attribute how one perceives the world by looking at their immediate surroundings than what the media gives them. Whatever idea hip hop may plant in their head, the world around them has to give them the access and the emphasis to go about it.

Your anecdotal evidence--unlike the evidence that many of us have, does nothing to dispute those facts. It does not in anyway undermine my general premise that hip hop--is very far down the list of things to blame (and you don't disagree). No one said that it has no impact, I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.

If you want to bring up sociology, sociologists aren't in some sort of monolithic agreement. @ssholes like Charles Murray are sociologists.
I'm using sociologist as a place holder for legitimate critical race theorists and professors. Obviously, I'm not saying every academic makes sense and their research is also something that we can all undermine.

Orlando Patterson was at least somewhat right in his 2006 NYT piece when he said this:
The selection you posted reaffirms my post, and again, I'm not sure where your disagreement is.

I'm not being generally dismissive of any group, I undermined his point and said that he knows better than to frame the argument as narrowly as he did. He's using the cliched shortcut that stops one from fulling delving into problems. I feel like I have to push back against that whenever I can. I do not want people to lose sight of bigger obstacles.


The crime-correlation thing doesn't tell us much either way, other than hip-hop can't be the most important causative factor in crime, dropout, teen pregnancy rates, etc., but nobody with any sense thinks that anyway. But it doesn't prove that hip-hop isn't having a negative effect either because they dip in crime since the mid-90's could be attributed to the decline of the crack trade, revamped housing policies (mixed-income housing, tearing down public housing), innovations in policing/law enforcement like COMSTAT and cameras being everywhere, increased incarceration, higher abortion rates, more available birth control, and a lot of other factors, and it's still disproportionately high amongst black communities.
At this point, I want to argue with you, but there's nothing to argue. You're making my point for me.

And to your final point about Malice. I said, "his heart is in the right place, but he's wrong." As he stated it, he framed it as if hip hop was the primary factor and that's how those posters took his statement. In that context he is wrong, and you did not disagree with that. It looks like we're on the same page and your only disagreement is how I stated things in 3 minute write up. :manny:
 

Walt

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Colilluminati

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We got a multi millionaire been filthy rich for two decades 40 year old nikka, and a 37 year old millionaire on a song with another 30 year old millionaire talkin about "young nikka move that dope" ......negativity sells and these old ass nikkas should be ashamed of themselves. Grow up, they poison. Yea economic factors and society has dealt a awful hand to some young blk kids, but you cant tell me this music is helping.

I'll take it a step further.

The song is produced by the "hottest producer" in the game and he makes the most basic as it can get beat.The hook is by Future who is the latest hook king and he says the same 5 words over and over.Pharrell the "genius" is all over the hook and drops a verse.Tyler the anti thug rapper is all in the video.

The whole song/video is weird as fukk to me.

ONE OF THE BEST PRODUCERS EVER.THE HOTTEST PRODUCER AT THE MOMENT.THE KING OF COKE RAP.ONE OF THE HOTTEST HOOK MAKERS OUT.

ALL THESE nikkaS GOT TOGETHER AND CAME UP WITH THIS?

Then threw a Salt & Peppa sample on it.




Just think about that.
 

TooLazyToMakeUp1

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these new rappers aren't expressing shyt, tho. that's the point. it's all "kill, sell, kill, fukk bytch, etc." there's no thought. no depth. no authenticity. it's just :trash:

white people love it, but they don't have to live amid the byproduct of this poison. the blacks in the hood, the ones who lack education and parental guidance, eat it up and begin acting in accordance with the :trash: they're being fed.

and just like i said: there are no leaders to hold these rappers accountable. farrakahn is close, but he's been maligned by the white press, so he isn't taken seriously by many blacks.

Fix communities to where the garbage can only been seen as entertainment. That music has no effect on them because they live in places where the mentality in the music isn't allowed to thrive as much. A lil mouse would never be able to hit Youtube if his parents raised him differently and Roseland had it's shyt together. We keep looking for Moses by way of a small collective of black leaders when that has always been easy to destroy and manipulate.

Unless we're going to say that blacks are innately more sheep-like and easily influenced no matter our circumstances and experiences in life, I say that the problem of broken families and neighborhoods need to be fixed first. Rap and Hip Hop are too low on the list of black priorities and it's been the scapegoat for damn near everything since I've been alive :yeshrug:
 

Taadow

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Yes. I call rap "devils music". Notice how when anyone raps it automatically has to be about negative shyt. If a random white boy started freestyle rapping more than likely he would start spitting :duck: About the guns he bust and drugs he's sold. Trey Songz, Chris Brown, Tyrese lover boy R&B cats rap it's cussing and being "hard". We are the only group of ppl that glorifies being from the hood. Do white ppl glorify trailer parks and make songs about Meth that's played on mainstream radio? But what's really sad is that the rap culture is synonymous with all blacks now. Especially the black male. Rap makes me sick now and I wish more of us could see the truth like myself and @kermit da hustla @Emperor_ReinScarf

What I wanna know is:

(1) did you feel this strongly about Sugarhill Gang, or every rapper in the 80's with "ski" in their name?
(2) why are you on a hip-hop forum if you truly feel this way?
 

Dusty Bake Activate

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Both
What's the main point of debate in the thread? Whether hip hop in unhealthy for consumption? Or whether blacks are particularly susceptible to the negative energy in certain songs?

I haven't read the entire thread or watched the interview yet.
Both...and the extent of it. It was spawned by Malice saying that negative hip-hop affects black youth in a more serious way than white youth.
 

PhonZhi

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What I wanna know is:

(1) did you feel this strongly about Sugarhill Gang, or every rapper in the 80's with "ski" in their name?
(2) why are you on a hip-hop forum if you truly feel this way?
1. I didn't really get into hiphop till around 94 so I can't really speak on that and besides I'm older and more mature now which is the reason I feel this strongly now.

2. I grew up on hiphop so it will ALWAYS have a place in my heart. Not ALL hiphop is destructive I just wish that there was more diversity in what got mainstream airplay. Less materialistic, violent rap and more positive songs is what's needed
 

The Devil's Advocate

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I was just disappoint to find out they was standing on the corner pumpining dime bags of crack.

:damn:I thought they was Movin dem keys breh
did you see what their boy got locked up with???? AFTER YEARS OF THEM BEING FAMOUS

they wasn't in the dark to that... and they didn't just meet the nikka after they got on

you see malice didn't even want to talk about it fully.. but seriously... take a ki and break it down to nickels will ALWAYS bring more money than selling ki's... unless you growing the shyt and shipping it in tons

but beyond that... why can't they just do a good vs evil type album. pusha talking that pusha shyt.. and malice comes with the different perspective/rebuttal verses... it'd be fukking amazing... i'm bout to ask them both that shyt on twitter

i'm sure if malice said cool, but no cussing, pusha would and could pull that off in order to do a clipse album
 

The Devil's Advocate

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exactly. Vic Mensa tweeted about this yesterday







to white people it's "cool".. "it's just entertainment" until one of these kids rapping about that life ends up dead or killing someone and they're like "oh well, that's the life he chose.. lock em up!"

i don't buy that "it's just entertainment" stuff, because it's not..

now, im not saying violence and stuff didn't exist prior to rap... but a kid with guidance and some direction listening to violent hip hop, or hip hop promoting selling drugs and things of that nature is a lot different than a kid listening to it with lack of proper guidance and poor is a lot different.

can't even say it's just entertainment... ok fukk the fans right

how many rappers have got beaten up, shot at, killed, etc over rap

same board with a smiley of nikka looking crazy... same nikka that said i'll kill you to his enemy and the nikka was dead in 24 hours... then they man got killed, then they killed his man's man, then they cousin got killed, then they shot his cousin....

if we was all listening to the isley brothers and rapping about traveling the world, you think nikkas would be beefing like that...

remember all the club fights whenever lil jon came on... nikkas from the DMV know how many nikkas got shot over some go-go parties...

you hear someone talking bout getting fukked up, and i'll shoot a nikka, and fukk with my click and you dead... and you got that in your ear everyday for the past 15 years... hell yea it influences you a little bit. same way it influences your speech, the way you dress, and a whole lot of other shyt in your life
 

The Devil's Advocate

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Lol...man Clipse were some regular nikkas in VA Beach. They didn't have any street rep. They hung with whiteboys in high school.

They were definitely affiliated with some big time hustlers though...a lot of it was familial connections. They were talented enough to tell those dudes stories and make it compelling.

That's part of why they never got much home town love. They're some suburban dudes from Kempsville and they shot the Grindin video in Tidewater Park projects in Norfolk, like they be out there. :heh: A lot of people in the 757 felt a way about that.

I never gave a fukk about any of that. They made hot music, so I always supported. :manny:
i'm not saying you're lying at all...

but i always wonder how dudes like them (how you put it) go to projects and film videos... when they aren't wanted there and people feel some way... at the same time... the nikkas who LIVE in the projects are all up in the video with the nikkas, smililng and co-signing every line they say
 
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did you see what their boy got locked up with???? AFTER YEARS OF THEM BEING FAMOUS

they wasn't in the dark to that... and they didn't just meet the nikka after they got on

you see malice didn't even want to talk about it fully.. but seriously... take a ki and break it down to nickels will ALWAYS bring more money than selling ki's... unless you growing the shyt and shipping it in tons

but beyond that... why can't they just do a good vs evil type album. pusha talking that pusha shyt.. and malice comes with the different perspective/rebuttal verses... it'd be fukking amazing... i'm bout to ask them both that shyt on twitter

i'm sure if malice said cool, but no cussing, pusha would and could pull that off in order to do a clipse album

:stopitslime:. Sounds forced. And from malice perspective why does it make sence for him to have an evil element to his music?

Listening to him talk, I don't see he being involved with anything that doesn't 100 denounce his old lifestyle. That approach would work with ma$e maybe. But malice ? I can't see it
 
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