Warning: Okc vs Spurs Don't Watch

[ALonelyDad]

This kevin martin vs joe johnson beef is definitely the funniest beef on coli right now

 

[malbaker86]

GOTDAMN these two are STILL arguing!!! It's about to be two months! LMAO

I didn't even know there was even a kevin martin vs joe johnson beef goin on lol

 

[Recca Gatsby]

Wasn't it origimnally Joe Johnson vs. someone else though? This shyt is insane that they both taggin each other every night playing footsies and shyt lol

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Wrong clown! My initial comparison was based on scoring ability & which player would help Cleveland as far as a scorer which I've clearly mentioned numerous times in this thread lame.

Not only are you wrong on this (we'll get back to this soon), but you never originally mentioned it was just on points scored - you said they had similar stats - which would mean you're talking about their overall stats and not just points scored. What you're also failing to realize is that Johnson offers more to a team than just points scored. Why do you keep marginalizing this down to total points scored, when Joe can offer so much more? This is why I know you don't watch games because you use causal fan, simpleton talking points.

Back to their scoring abilities, since the trades:

Johnson - 13.6 ppg on 53% shooting/64 TS%, 52% 3-pt shooting (3.3 attempts per game), 3.3 assists, and while he's on court the Heat have a 125 ORTG.

Martin - 5.9 ppg on 34% shooting/50 TS%, 41% 3-pt shooting (1.9 attempts per game), 0.7 assists, and while he's on court the Spurs have a 98 ORTG

The margin in their scoring efficiency, both total shots taken and 3-pt field goals can't be overstated. The Heat's offense went from one of the worst in the league to one of the best with the addition of Johnson, and although it has mostly to do with a change of scheme/pace - Johnson's scoring skillset has been an integral part. Not only has his scoring been a big factor but his playmaking has added a new dimension to Miami's offense. He can drive and dish, or he can work out the post and help run the offense. Not only isn't K-Mart equaling his scoring/efficiency output, but he's not doing all the other things Joe does on the court. This isn't even debatable as to who's the better player.

Do NOT come back with this nonsense of how many games the Heat have won or who they have/haven't beaten since the trade - it's completely dishonest, as a role player isn't going to be the difference between winning and losing on the regular and in the attempt of referencing what games they won/lost you leave out who performed best or what was the cause behind them losing - ya'know relative context, like I've been reiterating to you. For example, you tagged me saying the Heat lost to an above .500 team (Raptors) for your own argument, completely leaving out the fact he was their best player and the main reason(s) for why they lost was because Dragic shot poorly 5-18, Green shoot poorly 1-9, and DeRozan destroyed every matchup he had. It wasn't because of Johnson who had 28 points on 52% shooting and 5 assists.

You then had the nerve to tag me when the Heat lost to the Hornets - failing to realize it was Wade who actually was the main reason, by far, for why they lost. Johnson had limited touches, and the main options (Dragic, Wade and Deng) during that game controlled the ball.

Which is why I don't understand you bringing up what games the Heat win or lose (the fact they have a better record since the trade aside), Johnson is a role player at this point of his career; he's not going to make a great difference in their chances of winning. Why you'd even bring this up when K-Mart is less of a factor in teams winning games, I don't know.

And if Joe Johnson is the "better player" his stats clearly don't show it & are lackluster especially when you view that Joe Johnson was/is a starter for both the Nets/Heat, has played more games than Martin (71 games to 47 for Martin) & this year is averaging 34 minutes a game while Kevin Martin is a backup who has limited playing time with both the Timberwolves & Spurs @ 13.4 minutes a game.

Not only do the stats show he's a better player (see above), but if you actually bothered to watch games in see what he can provide on court, and not just go quoting points scored, you'd see for yourself. I feel sorry for you that you even think this is even debatable to begin with. I don't believe you're this stupid, I just think you're unwillingly to admit you fukked up in the first place by calling K-Mart a better player (hence all these stupid ass talking points you bring up).

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Wasn't it origimnally Joe Johnson vs. someone else though? This shyt is insane that they both taggin each other every night playing footsies and shyt lol

This was his original statement -

Would take Kevin Martin over Joe Johnson any day. Martin is just as good or better than Johnson, plus he's younger as well. Plus Martin's stats are pretty similar to Johnson's except that Martin plays 12.5 minutes less per game (21.4 minutes per game avg) than Johnson (33.9 minutes per game avg)

You have to be some kind of special to believe this.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

So all this other bullshyt you wasted your time spewing again has nothing to do with my original hypothesis or doesn't alter the facts.

Your "original hypothesis" (you don't even realize you're using this in the wrong context, and is in conflict with your argument), was that Martin was just as good, if not better than Johnson, so yes what I've posted has EVERYTHING to do with what you originally stated.

 

[O.G.B]

Not only are you wrong on this (we'll get back to this soon), but you never originally mentioned it was just on points scored - you said they had similar stats - which would mean you're talking about their overall stats and not just points scored. What you're also failing to realize is that Johnson offers more to a team than just points scored. Why do you keep marginalizing this down to total points scored, when Joe can offer so much more? This is why I know you don't watch games because you use causal fan, simpleton talking points.

More garbage trying to twist the narrative, but the problem is that no matter how you try, I've already proven that your assessments were incorrect & that Joe Johnson isn't going to be a difference maker like you claimed no matter how many long winded, emotional posts you make.

Back to their scoring abilities, since the trades:

Johnson - 13.6 ppg on 53% shooting/64 TS%, 52% 3-pt shooting (3.3 attempts per game), 3.3 assists, and while he's on court the Heat have a 125 ORTG.

Martin - 5.9 ppg on 34% shooting/50 TS%, 41% 3-pt shooting (1.9 attempts per game), 0.7 assists, and while he's on court the Spurs have a 98 ORTG

You get a F for effort trying to be slick loser! You're clearly being disingenuous with these struggle metrics knowing you've been taking a major L with your flawed prognosis. However the data doesn't help your cause in anyway & makes you look more like a idiot because based on the statistics above:


Johnson - 13.6 ppg on 53% shooting/64 TS%, 52% 3-pt shooting (3.3 attempts per game), 3.3 assists, and while he's on court the Heat have a 125 ORTG.

Johnson has played ALL 14 games with the Heat @ 32 Minutes a game as a STARTER

Martin - 5.9 ppg on 34% shooting/50 TS%, 41% 3-pt shooting (1.9 attempts per game), 0.7 assists, and while he's on court the Spurs have a 98 ORTG

Martin has played 9 games (1 as a starter) with the Spurs @ 14 Minutes a game as a PRIMARY BACKUP




You ALSO know if you actually look at the entire season for both Johnson & Martin (which you are plainly attempting to exclude) and factor in their both minutes & games played, that Martin is still the more efficient player when it comes to scoring.

Your whimsical attempt to bolster these weak arguments HOWEVER makes you look funny in the light because:

If Joe Johnson is the "better player" his stats clearly don't show it & are lackluster especially when you view that Joe Johnson was/is a starter for both the Nets/Heat, has played more games than Martin (71 games to 47 for Martin) & this year is averaging 34 minutes a game while Kevin Martin is backup who has limited playing time with both the Timberwolves & Spurs @ 13.4 minutes a game.

Johnson: 12.1 Points a game @ 34 Minutes a game with 71 games ALL played (Nets/Heat) as a STARTER

Martin: 9.8 Points a game @ 20 Minutes a game with 48 (only 13 as a starter this year) games played (Timberwolves/Spurs) as a PRIMARY BACKUP

If you're too stupid to actually grasp these primary, revelant FACTS, then it's you with the problem!

The margin in their scoring efficiency, both total shots taken and 3-pt field goals can't be overstated. The Heat's offense went from one of the worst in the league to one of the best with the addition of Johnson, and although it has mostly to do with a change of scheme/pace - Johnson's scoring skillset has been an integral part. Not only has his scoring been a big factor but his playmaking has added a new dimension to Miami's offense. He can drive and dish, or he can work out the post and help run the offense. Not only isn't K-Mart equaling his scoring/efficiency output, but he's not doing all the other things Joe does on the court. This isn't even debatable as to who's the better player.

None of this bullshyt you wrote matters as Joe Johnson hasn't help the Heat at all

Do NOT come back with this nonsense of how many games the Heat have won or who they have/haven't beaten since the trade - it's completely dishonest, as a role player isn't going to be the difference between winning and losing on the regular and in the attempt of referencing what games they won/lost you leave out who performed best or what was the cause behind them losing - ya'know relative context, like I've been reiterating to you. For example, you tagged me saying the Heat lost to an above .500 team (Raptors) for your own argument, completely leaving out the fact he was their best player and the main reason(s) for why they lost was because Dragic shot poorly 5-18, Green shoot poorly 1-9, and DeRozan destroyed every matchup he had. It wasn't because of Johnson who had 28 points on 52% shooting and 5 assists.

But that's not what you wrote previously:

Joe Johnson is just what this Heat team were missing.

Since Johnson trade -

7-2 record
111.9 ORTG (4th equal with Cavs - it'll be even better after this game)
58.5 TS% (1st)
52.5 eFG% (2nd)

He's averaging 16 ppg on 57% shooting, 58% 3-pt shooting on three attempts and three assists + he's making @O.G.B look more stupid with each passing game.

Which is why I don't understand you bringing up what games the Heat win or lose (the fact they have a better record since the trade aside), Johnson is a role player at this point of his career; he's not going to make a great difference in their chances of winning. Why you'd even bring this up when K-Mart is less of a factor in teams winning games, I don't know.

Because Jill, we have to look at the totality of his contribution to the Heat & if he's actually making a difference when it comes to winning, which is what counts ( and you have clearly stated in your quotes that Johnson is making that difference when it's quite obvious he's not) You don't want to revisit & seek to ignore these analytics because it completely debunks your defective hypothesis.

Miami before Joe Johnson's first game for the Heat (2/28/2016 vs NY) was ranked 3rd in the Eastern Con & is now currently 5th in the Eastern Con

Miami has played 13 teams during this stretch with Joe Johnson

Miami with Joe Johnson is now 9 - 4

8 wins against all .500 or below teams: (Miami has won 8 games against shytty teams .500 or under which they would/could have won without Johnson)
NY
CHI (without Jimmy Butler)
PHX
The 76's back to back
CHI (No Jimmy Butler or D. Rose)
Denver
New Orleans

0-1 against .500 or below teams:
Lost to Milwaukee (11th Place in Con)

1- 3 against above 0.500 teams:
Lost to Toronto (2nd in Eastern Con)
Lost to Charlotte (6th in Eastern Con)
Lost to San Antonio (2nd in Western Con)

Win against Cleveland (1st in Eastern Con) even though prior to the arrival of Joe Johnson, the Heat were already 3-0 vs Cleveland at home since LeBron left Miami

Also if you really could back up your arguments legitimately & effectively & you were actually correct beyond a shadow of a doubt, then there would be no need to keep negging me behind the scenes, now would it Jill?


-10
Given: Yesterday at 12:35 AM
Gil Scott-Heroin

-10
Given: Mar 10, 2016
Gil Scott-Heroin

Not only do the stats show he's a better player (see above), but if you actually bothered to watch games in see what he can provide on court, and not just go quoting points scored, you'd see for yourself. I feel sorry for you that you even think this is even debatable to begin with. I don't believe you're this stupid, I just think you're unwillingly to admit you fukked up in the first place by calling K-Mart a better player (hence all these stupid ass talking points you bring up).

Sorry, but the stats don't lie & they clearly show Martin is actually the better player at his primary skill set scoring wise than Johnson. And all of the other intangibles outside of scoring that Joe Johnson supposedly possess isn't actually showing up when it counts or helping the Heat win against quality teams which is what ultimately matters come playoff time. And the only one bring up asinine pre-school 'talking points" are you because watching games doesn't change the overall results or data on how poor Johnson is really performing when taking all of his numbers into totality.

But of course you know this, which is why another one of your quotes below states what I've been mentioning & right about from the beginning. Funny you highlight Johnson's scoring only & don't mention about these other great skills or attributes Johnson can bring to the Heat like you do continuously in the majority of all your other posts.

While the Heat would benefit from his shooting, do they really need another slow pace player when they function better pushing the pace? Especially with Dragic, he needs players that run the break and move early in the shot clock. I mean yeah having Johnson is better than not having him, I just don't know if this really benefits them in the grand scheme of things.

In closing your ceaseless, moronic rants hold no merit nor do they help you wriggle out of this defeat you've been handed.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

More garbage trying to twist the narrative, but the problem is that no matter how you try, I've already proven that your assessments were incorrect & that Joe Johnson isn't going to be a difference maker like you claimed no matter how many long winded, emotional posts you make.

Is English your second language or something?

Stop trying to move the goalposts. This was about your original statement in regards to Kevin Martin betting a better player. I made no attempt to give an estimation of what difference Johnson was going to make on any team. Why are you continuing to lie? Furthermore, you can't just simply use how games lost/won as backing behind your argument of him failing to make a difference. What is the appropriate context? What was the cause behind them winning or losing?

You get a F for effort trying to be slick loser! You're clearly being disingenuous with these struggle metrics knowing you've been taking a major L with your flawed prognosis. However the data doesn't help your cause in anyway & makes you look more like a idiot because based on the statistics above:

Struggle metrics? They're basic box score stats.

How the fukk doesn't the data help my argument when it shows he's the better, more efficient scorer?

Johnson - 13.6 ppg on 53% shooting/64 TS%, 52% 3-pt shooting (3.3 attempts per game), 3.3 assists, and while he's on court the Heat have a 125 ORTG.

Johnson has played ALL 14 games with the Heat @ 32 Minutes a game as a STARTER

Martin - 5.9 ppg on 34% shooting/50 TS%, 41% 3-pt shooting (1.9 attempts per game), 0.7 assists, and while he's on court the Spurs have a 98 ORTG

Martin has played 9 games (1 as a starter) with the Spurs @ 14 Minutes a game as a PRIMARY BACKUP

If K-Mart is an inefficient scorer in the limited minutes he plays against second units, how is he suppose to be more efficent with more minutes against starters?

This only helps my argument because K-Mart isn't capable of being a productive player, that's why he doesn't get many minutes. K-Mart would not be getting 30+ minutes in Miami (in place of JJ), and he would not be putting up the same production either.

You ALSO know if you actually look at the entire season for both Johnson & Martin (which you are plainly attempting to exclude) and factor in their both minutes & games played, that Martin is still the more efficient player when it comes to scoring.

Your whimsical attempt to bolster these weak arguments HOWEVER makes you look funny in the light because:

If Joe Johnson is the "better player" his stats clearly don't show it & are lackluster especially when you view that Joe Johnson was/is a starter for both the Nets/Heat, has played more games than Martin (71 games to 47 for Martin) & this year is averaging 34 minutes a game while Kevin Martin is backup who has limited playing time with both the Timberwolves & Spurs @ 13.4 minutes a game.

Johnson: 12.1 Points a game @ 34 Minutes a game with 71 games ALL played (Nets/Heat) as a STARTER

Martin: 9.8 Points a game @ 20 Minutes a game with 48 (only 13 as a starter this year) games played (Timberwolves/Spurs) as a PRIMARY BACKUP

If you're too stupid to actually grasp these primary, revelant FACTS, then it's you with the problem!

WHY THE fukk AREN'T YOU USING PERCENTAGES OF HOW WELL THE SHOOT/SCORE?

WHY THE fukk AREN'T YOU USING ANY OTHER STATS, LIKE ASSISTS? WHY ARE YOU ONLY USING POINTS SCORED?

Because Jill, we have to look at the totality of his contribution to the Heat & if he's actually making a difference when it comes to winning, which is what counts ( and you have clearly stated in your quotes that Johnson is making that difference when it's quite obvious he's not) You don't want to revisit & seek to ignore these analytics because it completely debunks your defective hypothesis.

Miami before Joe Johnson's first game for the Heat (2/28/2016 vs NY) was ranked 3rd in the Eastern Con & is now currently 5th in the Eastern Con

The nerve of you to say this when you only quote points scored in wins, and no the "totality of his contribution to the Heat". How the fukk can you measure what contribution he has on the Heat when you don't watch them play? So it's his fault when the Heat lose, even when he scores 20+ points? What about the other players failing to play up to their ability? He's not a #1 option player anymore, for you to use the win/loss talking point against him is outright stupidity.

Miami has played 13 teams during this stretch with Joe Johnson

Miami with Joe Johnson is now 9 - 4

8 wins against all .500 or below teams: (Miami has won 8 games against shytty teams .500 or under which they would/could have won without Johnson)
NY
CHI (without Jimmy Butler)
PHX
The 76's back to back
CHI (No Jimmy Butler or D. Rose)
Denver
New Orleans

0-1 against .500 or below teams:
Lost to Milwaukee (11th Place in Con)

1- 3 against above 0.500 teams:
Lost to Toronto (2nd in Eastern Con)
Lost to Charlotte (6th in Eastern Con)
Lost to San Antonio (2nd in Western Con)

Win against Cleveland (1st in Eastern Con) even though prior to the arrival of Joe Johnson, the Heat were already 3-0 vs Cleveland at home since LeBron left Miami

What the fukk does this have to do with K-Mart being a better player? Are you saying that they would've won more games with K-Mart instead? In those losses can you tell me how Johnson performed? Can you also tell me the difference in their offense from when Johnson came on board? You do realize the Heat have a better record with him, than without him this season right? How can you use the Heat's losses against him when they've been performing better with him?

I still failing to understand why you're even bringing their wins/losses up when nobody even said he was going to be the difference in them winning and losing games. He's a ROLE PLAYER.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Sorry, but the stats don't lie & they clearly show Martin is actually the better player at his primary skill set scoring wise than Johnson.

Johnson scores more on better efficiency. This is not debatable.

And all of the other intangibles outside of scoring that Joe Johnson supposedly possess isn't actually showing up when it counts or helping the Heat win against quality teams which is what ultimately matters come playoff time. And the only one bring up asinine pre-school 'talking points" are you because watching games doesn't change the overall results or data on how poor Johnson is really performing when taking all of his numbers into totality.

How the fukk can you even state this when you don't watch the Heat play? So Johnson's playmaking only matter if the team wins, regardless of how well he plays...

How the fukk can you marginalize this down to - if the Heat lose that Johnson isn't doing his job? Do you even realize how idiotic that sounds?

If Johnson scored 30 points and has 7 assists - and Wade and Dragic play poorly and are the reason for why the Heat lose (against a playoff team), does that mean Johnson didn't show up? Does that mean Johnson's play is irrelevant? Vice versa, if they do win against a playoff team and Johnson plays poorly and the rest of the team play great, does that mean his stats don't matter as he still helped them win?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

But of course you know this, which is why another one of your quotes below states what I've been mentioning & right about from the beginning. Funny you highlight Johnson's scoring only & don't mention about these other great skills or attributes Johnson can bring to the Heat like you do continuously in the majority of all your other posts.

First of all you did not mention anything in that post of mine, your reasoning has been completely different. Second of all, I questioned whether or not he was going to help them as their problems have been with their slow paced offense - I never said he wasn't going to help at all or that the Heat wouldn't benefit from having him. Just that I was unsure how this would work out in the long term; I had reservations over it.

He's put all those doubts to bed with his play so far. He's been instrumental in their improvements on offense, and has given them a new dimension to their attack.

You don't watch Heat games, so how the fukk could you know how he's playing or what impact he's having on the team? Heat fans have already said how great his play has been so far, and how much of a difference he makes, yet you think you're in the right when you don't even watch them play...


Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

 

[O.G.B]

Is English your second language or something?

English is definitely my first language, while BULLshyt is yours!

Stop trying to move the goalposts. This was about your original statement in regards to Kevin Martin betting a better player. I made no attempt to give an estimation of what difference Johnson was going to make on any team. Why are you continuing to lie? Furthermore, you can't just simply use how games lost/won as backing behind your argument of him failing to make a difference. Why is the appropriate context? What was the cause behind them winning or losing?

]Struggle metrics? They're basic box score stats.

How the fukk doesn't the data help my argument when it shows he's the better, more efficient scorer?



If K-Mart is an inefficient scorer in the limited minutes he plays against second units, how is he suppose to be more efficent with more minutes against starters?

This only helps my argument because K-Mart isn't capable of being a productive player, that's why he doesn't get many minutes. K-Mart would not be getting 30+ minutes in Miami (in place of JJ), and he would not be putting up the same production either.



WHY THE fukk AREN'T YOU USING PERCENTAGES OF HOW WELL THE SHOOT/SCORE?

WHY THE fukk AREN'T YOU USING ANY OTHER STATS, LIKE ASSISTS? WHY ARE YOU ONLY USING POINTS SCORED?



The nerve of you to say this when you only quote points scored in wins, and no the "totality of his contribution to the Heat". How the fukk can you measure what contribution he has on the Heat when you don't watch them play? So it's his fault when the Heat lose, even when he scores 20+ points? What about the other players failing to play up to their ability? He's not a #1 option player anymore, for you to use the win/loss talking point against him is outright stupidity.


What the fukk does this have to do with K-Mart being a better player? Are you saying that they would've won more games with K-Mart instead? In those losses can you tell me how Johnson performed? Can you also tell me the difference in their offense from when Johnson came on board? You do realize the Heat have a better record with him, than without him this season right? How can you use the Heat's losses against him when they've been performing better with him?

None of this hot debunks absolutely nothing I've stated.

I still failing to understand why you're even bringing their wins/losses up when nobody even said he was going to be the difference in them winning and losing games. He's a ROLE PLAYER.

Are you seriously this dense? Please explain how an alleged ROLE PLAYER as YOU CLAIM has been a STARTER for the NETS & HEAT all season, every game playing 34 Minutes a game dumb fukk?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

None of this hot debunks absolutely nothing I've stated.

It refutes everything you said. How many Heat games have you watched this season, before and after the Johnson signing?

Are you seriously this dense? Please explain how an alleged ROLE PLAYER as YOU CLAIM has been a STARTER for the NETS & HEAT all season, every game playing 34 Minutes a game dumb fukk?

Role players start for a lot of teams. At this stage of his career he's a role player- this isn't 2007. He can play big minutes because he's still productive, versatile, can run the offense and isn't a complete liability on the defensive end. If he was a one trick pony like K-Mart, he wouldn't be getting this amount of minutes on the Heat. He gets big minutes because he can contribute all over the court. Do you even watch basketball at all?

 

[O.G.B]

It refutes everything you said. How many Heat games have you watched this season, before and after the Johnson signing?

Role players start for a lot of teams. At this stage of his career he's a role player- this isn't 2007. He can play big minutes because he's still productive, versatile, can run the offense and isn't a complete liability on the defensive end. If he was a one trick pony like K-Mart, he wouldn't be getting this amount of minutes on the Heat. He gets big minutes because he can contribute all over the court. Do you even watch basketball at all?

More repeating the same shyt. So please explain again how an alleged ROLE PLAYER as YOU CLAIM has been a STARTER for the NETS & HEAT all season playing 34 Minutes a game dumb fukk?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Why did you just post the same thing after I already responded to your post?

 

[O.G.B]

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