Was "Hardhome" the best episode of Game of Thrones? "Night's Watch, with me!"

[O.Red]

It's in the book, not the show. They're main characters that the show cut out and mixed into other show characters' stories. Like Jon Snow in the show was given Aegon's name and story.

Nah Jon was always Aegon.

Griff was very much likely a Blackfyre being posed as Aegon based on a plot from Illiryo and Varys and it's extremely likely that Jon Connington is lying. Even in his POVs

But Griff being cut out of the show all but confirms he wasn't the real Aegon, thus D&D considered the entire plot expendable

A lot of the main plot points y'all attribute to D&D were from GRRM. Y'all just pick and choose based on which ones y'all like/hate. Jon being Aegon was the elephant in the room amongst fans years before the show even aired.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

So you never picked up Black Sails huh? You just rewatching stuff ignoring the piff I recommended.

I'm still on ep 1


In my defense I'm doing a lot of studying for my career right now @humminbird can vouch for me and I don't have the mental bandwidth to digest a new show at the moment. I can rewatch old stuff I've already seen or watch a show that doesn't require brainpower but other than that, I got nothing left to give


Give me a little bit to get my table cleared

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

Nah Jon was always Aegon.

Griff was very much likely a Blackfyre being posed as Aegon based on a plot from Illiryo and Varys and it's extremely likely that Jon Connington is lying. Even in his POVs

But Griff being cut out of the show all but confirms he wasn't the real Aegon, thus D&D considered the entire plot expendable

A lot of the main plot points y'all attribute to D&D were from GRRM. Y'all just pick and choose based on which ones y'all like/hate

Yep. I have a shocking revelation that I'm gonna tell yall about this once I finish my rewatch. But I noticed a lot of stuff this go around that let's me know this is definitely true.

 

[humminbird]

I'm still on ep 1


In my defense I'm doing a lot of studying for my career right now @humminbird can vouch for me and I don't have the mental bandwidth to digest a new show at the moment. I can rewatch old stuff I've already seen or watch a show that doesn't require brainpower but other than that, I got nothing left to give


Give me a little bit to get my table cleared

yeah you need stuff that doesn't require your full attention

 

[Umoja]

It's in the book, not the show. They're main characters that the show cut out and mixed into other show characters' stories. Like Jon Snow in the show was given Aegon's name and story.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Jon's story is his own. Books left enough hints that he is Rhaegar's and Lyanna's son.

 

[Chris Cool]

Yea even the book thread gave up on this nikka

This thread had me go back and read posts from years ago earlier. I don't remember none of the shyt we was talking about.


I feel for the day 1 readers. Nobody got it worse than them.

 

[O.Red]

Yep. I have a shocking revelation that I'm gonna tell yall about this once I finish my rewatch. But I noticed a lot of stuff this go around that let's me know this is definitely true.

The plot points were never the issue. Or mine at least

I understand why Dany goes mad, why Bran becomes king and Tyrion his hand, why Jon ends his arc with the wildlings. All of these are consistent with the story GRRM was telling.

The only one I'm not 100% sure about is The Night King and his demise

The failure of the writers is not them changing GRRMs main story, its them butchering and rushing it

 

[O.Red]

This thread had me go back and read posts from years ago earlier. I don't remember none of the shyt we was talking about.


I feel for the day 1 readers. Nobody got it worse than them.

I think about the day one book nikkas all the time even the gaps they had while the books were coming out

Some characters you don't see or hear from for YEARS between books

Bran makes it to the 3 eyed raven at the end of Clash of Kings, released in 1998

You don't see Bran again till 3 books later in fukking 2011s Dance with Dragons

13 years nikka

So imagine reading this series from day one, with these years long gaps between char POVs, and now being faced with the reality that after an 8 year hit adaptation that ended terribly, you'll NEVER see this series completed

I pray for them nikkas

 

[Umoja]

The failure of the writers is not them changing GRRMs main story, its them butchering and rushing it

Exactly.

The execution was awful. Said this before but another season was necessary.

From Dany's point of view, her insecurities and past trauma should have been fleshed out. Have the character deal with the disconnect that comes with viewing herself as a savior and then realising that it is not her claim by birth and, in addition to that, the people not welcoming her with open arms.

It was tackled but rushed e.g. that sad expression she had when Tormund was hyping Jon.

From Jon's point of view, his response towards not being Ned's son should have been fleshed out. Have him deal with the people to looking to use him as a chess piece, his continued romance with Dany, and the response of his siblings.

I feel that not bringing Cartlyn back was also a mistake. If they had more time to focus on things, I imagine her first move would be to challenge his title as King of North. Anyway, moving away from the point. Having her around would be useful in dealing with the trauma he experienced growing up as a b*stard.

 

[Biscayne]

10 seasons is unrealistic. All the actors wanted to leave. That's 10 years of people's lives..these guys just weren't good writers.

Depending on the plot lines, some actors would’ve been obliged sooner than others when they got killed off. You just don’t omit major or even minor characters and then shorten seasons. Their writing wouldn’t have had to have been depended on, if they just roll with the plot lines from the books. New actors would’ve been introduced as the series progressed and as older actors got killed off, ala a show like Walking Dead. Shows like that are able be keep chugging because actors are killed off.

yeah people forget what was going on behind the scenes
the showrunners had a star wars trilogy planned and then the salaries of the actors were increasing like crazy. The show's budget was competing with blockbuster films

They handled it terribly. If they were that busy and budgets were increasing, I’d rather them just ended the show altogether at Szn 7 and set all the actors free and have us fans make up theories as to what might’ve happened. No clarity is better than a horrible ending. I don’t even really go back and watch the show like that, I just read the books and re read them.

 

[O.Red]

I feel that not bringing Cartlyn back was also a mistake. If they had more time to focus on things, I imagine her first move would be to challenge his title as King of North. Anyway, moving away from the point. Having her around would be useful in dealing with the trauma he experienced growing up as a b*stard.

You know what I never minded them cutting out Stoneheart because I had a feeling she wasn't really a major character but this discussion about everything they cut out is making me wonder all over again

What's funny is all things considered, I don't see how GRRM was gonna end this cleanly in 2 more books

 

[Umoja]

You know what I never minded them cutting out Stoneheart because I had a feeling she wasn't really a major character but this discussion about everything they cut out is making me wonder all over again

Her importance only came up when considering how to deal with Jon's character development.

I think within literature, most things are challenge based, what hurdle will the character have to come.

So when I look at Jon's character, the insecurities with being a b*stard is one of the first things that springs to mind. His connection to the North, right to rule, quality rule, and sense of responsibility also.

I feel that Catlyn's character existed to flesh those points out. Funnily, it is something that could have brought closure too. I don't know what Martin's intentions are, but she is one of the few characters who would have been able to empathise with being brought back from the dead. Whether it would have brought her redemption or not is something I would like to see play out.

 

[Biscayne]

The plot points were never the issue. Or mine at least

I understand why Dany goes mad, why Bran becomes king and Tyrion his hand, why Jon ends his arc with the wildlings. All of these are consistent with the story GRRM was telling.

The only one I'm not 100% sure about is The Night King and his demise

The failure of the writers is not them changing GRRMs main story, its them butchering and rushing it

Call me crazy, but I think they shouldn’t have omitted any characters from the book. Both large and small. F/Aegon, Lady Stoneheart, Patchface, Val, Varamyr Six Skins, Strongman Belwas, etc.

 

[Biscayne]

You know what I never minded them cutting out Stoneheart because I had a feeling she wasn't really a major character but this discussion about everything they cut out is making me wonder all over again

What's funny is all things considered, I don't see how GRRM was gonna end this cleanly in 2 more books

Missed plotlines makes a rushed story.

 

[O.Red]

Call me crazy, but I think they shouldn’t have omitted any characters from the book. Both large and small. F/Aegon, Lady Stoneheart, Patchface, Val, Varamyr Six Skins, Strongman Belwas, etc.

Nah that's impossible. That's why books are usually preferred over their adaptations

You can't leave in EVERYTHING that shyt would be 24 seasons

I think there was a happy medium that wasn't reached only because of D&D's negligence and bias over certain key factors

Either way cuts have to be made, especially with a series this wide and dense