Was "Hardhome" the best episode of Game of Thrones? "Night's Watch, with me!"

[Psychosis]

It's in the book, not the show. They're main characters that the show cut out and mixed into other show characters' stories. Like Jon Snow in the show was given Aegon's name and story.

Props . This thread is jumping back n forth between the books n the shows.

 

[O.Red]

Props . This thread is jumping back n forth between the books n the shows.

He's wrong

 

[humminbird]

We need to talk about the other red woman

 

[The Plug]

Nah Jon was always Aegon.

Griff was very much likely a Blackfyre being posed as Aegon based on a plot from Illiryo and Varys and it's extremely likely that Jon Connington is lying. Even in his POVs

But Griff being cut out of the show all but confirms he wasn't the real Aegon, thus D&D considered the entire plot expendable

A lot of the main plot points y'all attribute to D&D were from GRRM. Y'all just pick and choose based on which ones y'all like/hate. Jon being Aegon was the elephant in the room amongst fans years before the show even aired.

Bruh, how do you downplay what I typed by using a fan theory. This shyt is crazy.

Like you even just typed that they cut out stoneheart which RR Martin considered incredibly important, that's all HBO. Same for completely changing Euron.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Jon's story is his own. Books left enough hints that he is Rhaegar's and Lyanna's son.

Doesn't mean his name was Aegon or that he'd inherit the seven kingdoms, etc.

 

[Maxine Shaw]

I straight up CHEERED when Tommen hit that smooth criminal lean. Not b/c I hated him (I didn't), but b/c it seemed like the first true thing he ever did independent of his mother. It was a victory for him, albeit a very tragic one, and a middle finger to Cersei's bytch ass.

Was it arrogance on Ned's part?

Absolutely it was. Ned was a shytty hand who put his ego and honor above the good of the realm, and the realm bled for it. He was also a staggering hypocrite.
Ned Stark: The Honorable Fool

 

[Tasha And]

Nah Jon was always Aegon.

Griff was very much likely a Blackfyre being posed as Aegon based on a plot from Illiryo and Varys and it's extremely likely that Jon Connington is lying. Even in his POVs

But Griff being cut out of the show all but confirms he wasn't the real Aegon, thus D&D considered the entire plot expendable

A lot of the main plot points y'all attribute to D&D were from GRRM. Y'all just pick and choose based on which ones y'all like/hate. Jon being Aegon was the elephant in the room amongst fans years before the show even aired.

I wouldn't take anything D&D wrote after season 4 as confirmation of what is or is not an expendable plot point regarding the books. They wanted out, were adamant for years that they only wanted to tell seven seasons worth of story, and weren't going to bother setting up new characters and plots when they could just combine and remix. They cut shyt because they didn't want to bother expanding the world anymore or deal with more complications to a growing production schedule/budget.

Beyond that, Griff being the real Aegon or not is irrelevant to the role he is going to play in the books, which is as a rival to Dany, with a better claim to the throne, a Targaryen prince returned storyline to gain the love of the people, major houses backing him, and the support of Varys by the time Dany gets to Westeros. Griff missing in the story left a void in the narrative that they tried to fill in with Jon and Cersei on the show, but it didn't work.

They needed Faegon to already have major support and castles secured by the time Dany gets there to tell that "but the people of Westeros don't love me" story properly. Broke ass, no ally-ass Cersei not being overthrown by a city that hates her and the entire "I don't want it, she's mah queen" Jon/Dany rift seems contrived because those elements are being forced to accommodate a subplot clearly made for another character.

 

[O.Red]

I wouldn't take anything D&D wrote after season 4 as confirmation of what is or is not an expendable plot point regarding the books. They wanted out, were adamant for years that they only wanted to tell seven seasons worth of story, and weren't going to bother setting up new characters and plots when they could just combine and remix. They cut shyt because they didn't want to bother expanding the world anymore or deal with more complications to a growing production schedule/budget.

Beyond that, Griff being the real Aegon or not is irrelevant to the role he is going to play in the books, which is as a rival to Dany, with a better claim to the throne, a Targaryen prince returned storyline to gain the love of the people, major houses backing him, and the support of Varys by the time Dany gets to Westeros. Griff missing in the story left a void in the narrative that they tried to fill in with Jon and Cersei on the show, but it didn't work.

They needed Faegon to already have major support and castles secured by the time Dany gets there to tell that "but the people of Westeros don't love me" story properly. Broke ass, no ally-ass Cersei not being overthrown by a city that hates her and the entire "I don't want it, she's mah queen" Jon/Dany rift seems contrived because those elements are being forced to accommodate a subplot clearly made for another character.

I never argued any of this.

Again y'all hate D&D and that's completely understandable, but y'all are using that hate as an excuse to be irrationally biased

There's a difference between the cuts they made with lack of respect for the material and cuts made simply because you can't fit EVERYTHING in the show

I get why they cut Griff out while also understanding the effect it had on the plot

The post I quoted implied that Griff's name and story was given to Jon and that's just not true. Jon has been Aegon from day one

 

[The Plug]

I never argued any of this.

Again y'all hate D&D and that's completely understandable, but y'all are using that hate as an excuse to be irrationally biased

There's a difference between the cuts they made with lack of respect for the material and cuts made simply because you can't fit EVERYTHING in the show

I get why they cut Griff out while also understanding the effect it had on the plot

The post I quoted implied that Griff's name and story was given to Jon and that's just not true. Jon has been Aegon from day one

I already typed that I didn't hate D&D, I'm one of the few that gave them their props for what they did better than the books over this thread.

 

[5n0man]

The only one I'm not 100% sure about is The Night King and his demise

The night king wasn't in the books.

 

[O.Red]

Bruh, how do you downplay what I typed by using a fan theory. This shyt is crazy.

Like you even just typed that they cut out stoneheart which RR Martin considered incredibly important, that's all HBO. Same for completely changing Euron.

Doesn't mean his name was Aegon or that he'd inherit the seven kingdoms, etc.

I didn't "use" a fan theory I said some shyt that i truly believe.

It's also unfair to use "fan theory" as a pejorative when a lot of them are actually logically sound. And I didn't downplay what you said but you said that shyt with so much conviction and it's wrong. Are we really in here saying that Jon wasn't always Aegon????

I said i initially didn't think Stoneheart was that important based on her appearances in the books. I could be very wrong on that one. I'm largely indifferent on her

And it's not so much that they changed Euron. On paper he's the same character from the books but the adaptation itself was bad. I blame that on the actor more than anything

 

[O.Red]

The night king wasn't in the books.

I know he wasn't. My point was would he have ever been introduced in the last two books or would the battle with the dead look completely differently in Winds or Dream

 

[O.Red]

I already typed that I didn't hate D&D, I'm one of the few that gave them their props for what they did better than the books over this thread.

I wasn't singling anybody in particular out, but that is what a lot of y'all are doing

I hate D&D too, but I also understand that you can't get everything you want in an adaptation like this

Books are books and shows/movies are just that

I wouldn't want 14 seasons of Game Of Thrones

 

[5n0man]

I know he wasn't. My point was would he have ever been introduced in the last two books or would the battle with the dead look completely differently in Winds or Dream

I don't think he would have ever been introduced because the others in the books don't seem to be as intelligent as the whitewalkers in the show.

They seemed like mindless zombies in the books, but in the show they are portrayed as an undead army with a leader.

The fact that the night king never had a goal the entire show is proof that he wasn't supposed to be a real factor in the books. I think they just wanted a defacto antagonist to Jon Snow's storyline because a bunch of nameless random snow zombies wasn't as cool on screen.

 

[Steel]

I don't think he would have ever been introduced because the others in the books don't seem to be as intelligent as the whitewalkers in the show.

They seemed like mindless zombies in the books, but in the show they are portrayed as an undead army with a leader.

The fact that the night king never had a goal the entire show is proof that he wasn't supposed to be a real factor in the books. I think they just wanted a defacto antagonist to Jon Snow's storyline because a bunch of nameless random snow zombies wasn't as cool on screen.

exactly the white walkers are mindless zombies like twd zombies.

it’s very interesting but there is a parallel between this pandemic and the white walkers/ Westeros. The second biggest plot in the books is can Westeros unite to fight the white walker threat seriously and fight it. Westeros is bitterly divided. It seems very similar to how Americans view this pandemic.

 

[O.Red]

I don't think he would have ever been introduced because the others in the books don't seem to be as intelligent as the whitewalkers in the show.

They seemed like mindless zombies in the books, but in the show they are portrayed as an undead army with a leader.

The fact that the night king never had a goal the entire show is proof that he wasn't supposed to be a real factor in the books. I think they just wanted a defacto antagonist to Jon Snow's storyline because a bunch of nameless random snow zombies wasn't as cool on screen.

exactly the white walkers are mindless zombies like twd zombies.

it’s very interesting but there is a parallel between this pandemic and the white walkers/ Westeros. The second biggest plot in the books is can Westeros unite to fight the white walker threat seriously and fight it. Westeros is bitterly divided. It seems very similar to how Americans view this pandemic.

Were the whitewalkers in the show ever really shown to be intelligent tho??? They never said or did shyt

Also remember in the books there was a distinction. There were Others and there were Wights. Wights are the mindless zombies revived from the dead. Others are the whitewalkers, the ones that bring the cold and all that fairy tale shyt

My curiosity on whether the Night King would be in the books is based on how little you see them in the books and show anyway. That's the one thing i want official word from somebody on