What Happened After a 16-year-old Chose FAMU Over Harvard

[KenyaDoll]

What kind of dumb question is that? The fact that you even ask that proves what I said earlier. You're in denial and you're not looking to actually come to the truth even though I just proved it to you.

It's not a stupid question. You provided data for UC schools and UT Austin. If you think that proves your point about all school then you are sadly mistaken.

From the very beginning I've asked you to show me stats to say that Black don't belong. I told you the best way to do that is to show me that all of these schools are admitting Black people outside of their normal test range. Why can't you do that?

If these students are within their testing range then they belong just as much as white and Asian students...even if you don't like it.

 

[yoyoyo1]

He seems to be jumping around quite a bit, he seems lost.

However, it's not such a bad thing he turned down Harvard, black people get treated like shyt there. Everywhere you go on campus those white students are staring at you and talking about you "He's only here because of affirmative action" blah blah blah. I don't blame him for passing up that demon hole.

say people who aren't even close to smart enough to attend ivy league schools

like clockwork.


this guy is a retard though, he took the opposite intellectual path. from top school to religion? my goodness

 

[KenyaDoll]

@bigDeeOT

In contrast to the results on enrollment, minority college graduation rates, both on-time

and within 6 years of enrollment, improved for California’s public 4-year colleges with the implementation

of Prop 209 and improved relative to the corresponding rates of whites or Asian

Americans. And we find that on-time college (degree) attainment rates either remained constant

or increased slightly after passage of Prop 209. Moreover, the improvements in minority graduation

rates tend to be larger at either the less-selective UC campuses (for African Americans) or

the CSU system (Hispanics). Again, these patterns show up in our unadjusted tabulations and

our model-based estimates using IPEDS data.

According to that paper, Prop 209 improved graduation rates were most evident at the LESS SELECTIVE colleges...meaning that the MORE SELECTIVE colleges did not see as much of a difference because they were NOT accepting qualified candidates.

 

[L&HH]

Exactly. That's why I'm not really feeling the 'he made a stupid mistake by not choosing Harvard' line of reasoning seen here. This would have happened to the kid whether he was at FAMU or Harvard or DeVrys. Something else was going on with his life, and if it had happened at Harvard folks would still be embarassed for him. And there wouldn't be 'at least he dropped out of Harvard' hindsight.

I think the big fish small pond thing is apt, as well. Goes for high schools, too. 'I was valedictorian of Olan Mills High. We only had 40 students, but I was valedictorian' versus 'I was 30th in a class of 4000 at MegaUrban High.' The latter kid may have outperformed the former on a level playing field, but the latter kid isn't getting the offers the former kid is. What will ultimately matter is what they do with the rest of their life, though. No one cares who was at the top of Bill Gates class, because Bill Gates made that irrelevant. He passed the School of Hard Knocks. I believe he's who any student should aspire to (without the suspect business and charity practices).

Here's somebody who says it better than I can, though (though I don't agree that Valedictorians fail, not at all, and neither does the writer; but he's talking about something else):

Why Valedictorians Fail

"The world of the future belongs not to the “A” students, but to those who can embrace change, see the future and anticipate its needs, and respond to new opportunities and challenges with creativity and agility and passion."

also:

(Karen Arnold, a professor at Boston University) also stated, “they’ve never been devoted to a single area in which they can put all their passions...The opportunities to become famous or change the world as an accountant, for example, are few and far between...They obey rules, work hard, and like learning, but they're not the mold-breakers. They work best within the system and aren’t likely to change it.”

Translation: Valedictorians don’t make good entrepreneurs and investors because they’re afraid of risk. They make great employees.

This quote hits so hard at home for me. Long story short, I was that "valedictorian" who had everything schools would not from a pure academic perspective. When I went to school I got into some shyt and eventually everything just started falling apart, I slowly started realizing that what I truly wanted and what I was currently doing just didn't coincide with one another.

 

[L&HH]

Notice that out of all the testimonies you find on the internet of blacks claiming to be isolated or whatever at harvard/yale, they are always talking about what they THINK are going through people's heads. You don't hear about them actually going up to these white students and trying to get to know them, which in turn would allow the whites to get to know the blacks as well. You see the blacks talk very passionately about how no one likes them or this other yadda. When in all actuality the reason why no one likes the majority of these black students is because they isolate themselves. I'm very confident of this because I go to a school with a vast majority of white students and I never feel isolated. (and no I have not espoused any of my political beliefs either. We just have normal conversation)

It's a little bit of both. Another anecdote from me lol, but there was a white dude in my senior class whose dream was to goto Harvard, even had rec. letters from Hilary Clinton. Well he didn't got in and went to Princeton. When he found out someone from our school did get into Harvard [a black girl], I can only help but know he had a kind of disdain towards her. And no I didn't talk to him and ask him but, I've had plenty of classes with dude to know how he felt.

Can you site a source to back up your claim that a lot of black students are unqualified to attend without affirmative action?

I won't say the black students getting accepted are unqualified, they're definitely "Ivy material". [Imo we really need to stop giving Ivy's as much acclaim in general, I goto a state PWI and I have classmates that would wipe the floor in any academic assessment as alot of those in Ivy. And I'd even argue the standards in my school when you get in are on par or even tougher than what's at Ivys.] But I will say that they are getting in ahead of other students who are more qualified than them.

 

[KenyaDoll]

It's a little bit of both. Another anecdote from me lol, but there was a white dude in my senior class whose dream was to goto Harvard, even had rec. letters from Hilary Clinton. Well he didn't got in and went to Princeton. When he found out someone from our school did get into Harvard [a black girl], I can only help but know he had a kind of disdain towards her. And no I didn't talk to him and ask him but, I've had plenty of classes with dude to know how he felt.



I won't say the black students getting accepted are unqualified. But I will say that they are getting in ahead of other students who are more qualified than them.

More qualified based on what? Solely test scores?

If that's the case then Asians should be the majority population at all prestigious schools. If that's the case then white people (way more than Black people) are getting ahead of Asian students who are "more qualified" than them.

College admissions has never been solely about test scores. I will also say again, if these admitted students are within the average of their past admitted classes and the average of other admitted students in the present class then why aren't they just as qualified as everyone else?

Why are whites and Asians entitled to these schools (like your anecdote)? Do you feel like he deserved that school more than the black girl just because because he was obviously more privileged (he is personally connected to Hilary Clinton)?

 

[bigDeeOT]

From the very beginning I've asked you to show me stats to say that Black don't belong. I told you the best way to do that is to show me that all of these schools are admitting Black people outside of their normal test range. Why can't you do that?

I don't have to do that. What an intellectually barron request, for me to provide data on every single school. The only reason why you ask for that is because you're in denial.

That's like saying unless I have walked completely around the earth, there's no way I can know the circumference of the earth, even though this was already mathematically calculated over a thousand years ago.

That's like saying unless we lived 300 million years ago, we can't assume dinosaurs roamed the earth based on a few fossils. With your logic, because we only have a few fossils of dinosaurs, we can only conclude that a handful of dinosaurs roamed the earth.

How do we know the center of the earth is full of molten lava if we haven't actually been there ourselves to take a survey of the ENTIRE area down there? Using your logic, if molten lava comes out of a volcano we can only assume that was all the lava there ever was. It'd be wrong to extrapolate and assume theirs more lava down there.

 

[KenyaDoll]

I don't have to do that. What an intellectually barron request, for me to provide data on every single school. The only reason why you ask for that is because you're in denial.

That's like saying unless I have walked completely around the earth, there's no way I can know the circumference of the earth.

That's like saying unless we lived 300 million years ago, we can't assume dinosaurs roamed the earth based on a few fossils. With your logic, because we only have a few fossils of dinosaurs, we can only conclude that a handful of dinosaurs roamed the earth.

How do we know the center of the earth is full of molten lava if we haven't actually been there ourselves to take a survey of the ENTIRE area down there? Using your logic, if molten lava comes out of a volcano we can only assume it's that was all the lava there ever was. It'd be wrong to extrapolate and assume theirs more lava down there.

Well everything else you posted does not prove that at all of these schools they are admitting students with GPA and SATs outside of their average. if you can think of any other criteria that proves why a student should be admitted over another then please feel free to post that.

I requested that because common sense says that GPA and SAT/ACT are the criteria that people are talking about in regard to why some students belong and some students don't.

What am I in denial about? I got into the school you couldn't get into with 90th percentile GRE scores.

 

[bigDeeOT]

@bigDeeOT



According to that paper, Prop 209 improved graduation rates were most evident at the LESS SELECTIVE colleges...meaning that the MORE SELECTIVE colleges did not see as much of a difference because they were NOT accepting qualified candidates.

No, if the higher tanked universities were not accepting qualified candidates then the graduation rate would have DROPPED after proposition 209. So since the graduation rates actually went slightly up, this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that affirmative action is not needed.

 

[L&HH]

More qualified based on what? Solely test scores?

If that's the case then Asians should be the majority population at all prestigious schools. If that's the case then white people (way more than Black people) are getting ahead of Asian students who are "more qualified" than them.

College admissions has never been solely about test scores. I will also say again, if these admitted students are within the average of their past admitted classes and the average of other admitted students in the present class then why aren't they just as qualified as everyone else?

Nah, not just test scores. And I didn't say they aren't as qualified I said I know of people who were more qualified than they were. I have an Indian friend whose academics were better, had better extra curriculars and didn't get into a single top Ivy, MIT, or anything. While pretty much every single one of our black classmates who had above a 4.0 and 1900 on the SAT got into at least one Ivy or some other top school [MIT]. This is from personal experience and friends of mine whose transcripts I've seen. If you compared his transcript to my brothers for example and removed the name, 100% chance you take his every time.

 

[Insensitive]

Notice that out of all the testimonies you find on the internet of blacks claiming to be isolated or whatever at harvard/yale, they are always talking about what they THINK are going through people's heads. You don't hear about them actually going up to these white students and trying to get to know them, which in turn would allow the whites to get to know the blacks as well. You see the blacks talk very passionately about how no one likes them or this other yadda. When in all actuality the reason why no one likes the majority of these black students is because they isolate themselves. I'm very confident of this because I go to a school with a vast majority of white students and I never feel isolated. (and no I have not espoused any of my political beliefs either. We just have normal conversation)

It's interesting you say this because I get the feeling you completely looked
over the "I too am harvard" article.
Right in the very article ( which I'm sure you can look up)
several students detailed instances where they had to deal with a
sort of benign racism. i.e. backhanded compliments on their speech,
attire and musical interests and dealing with tokenism.
A few even had to deal with some outright stuff like one young
who was called "Shaniqua" (or something roughly equivalent to that)
and another was called a "N*****".

While I agree in that I don't think ALL the white students at any given campus are
racist, I totally and completely disagree with your dismissal of any racism outright.

On topic :
I don't know what this kid was going through in his life, all I know is he squandered
or is in the middle of squandering a monumental chance that few get.
I mean, the dude was working at Apple, before he was 20.
That's crazy if you think about it.

 

[KenyaDoll]

@bigDeeOT



According to that paper, Prop 209 improved graduation rates were most evident at the LESS SELECTIVE colleges...meaning that the MORE SELECTIVE colleges did not see as much of a difference because they were NOT accepting qualified candidates.

No, if the higher tanked universities were not accepting qualified candidates then the graduation rate would have DROPPED after proposition 209. So since the graduation rates actually went slightly up, this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that affirmative action is not needed.

That bold part in my above quote should have said that they were NOT accepting UNqualified candidates (which has been my whole point).

Selective colleges in California didn't see much of a change in graduations rates because the Black and minorities they were admitting WERE qualified and graduating.

 

[bigDeeOT]

Well everything else you posted does not prove that at all of these schools they are admitting students with GPA and SATs outside of their average.

You're out of your mind. Look at the acceptance rates for blacks vs whites vs asians at medical schools. Blacks with a 31 MCAT and 3.6 GPA have over a 90% chance of getting accepted. Whites and asians with those same states have like a 60% chance or less.

You see this same trend for EVERY type of graduate school. Look up the acceptance rate, by race, that controls for GRE and GPA.

Every time I make a point you refuse to address it. You keep changing the subject. Why don't you actually address the issue of blacks having a higher graduate rate after prop 209?

This is why our community is in the state its in today. The vast majority of blacks are like you. They refuse to look at the evidence when it contradicts their belief. They will keep their head in the sand all day and say they're victims of the system. 9

Malcolm X said blacks are fool for voting democrat. We vote democrat at the rate of 80% and it has nothing to do with us researching the issues of republicans vs democrats, but everything to do with the fact that we LOVE to have a victim mentality. Liberals feed us this kind of nonsense quite well and people like you eat it up. Now in 2014, we have blacks voting democrat at the rate of 95%. Malcolm X was right. Black people will believe quite literally anything you tell them.

 

[theworldismine13]

You can't make that claim without a source. That is a VERY big claim to say a lot of the black students at ivy leagues are unqualified to be there without affirmative action.

Do you really think they are admitting black students who are way outside of their GPA and/or SAT/ACT averages? Do you really think they are admitting students with 16 on the ACT just because they had a sob story? Please stop it. Those students meet the same admissions standards and go through the same interviews as everyone else. I'm sure those same students who made it into Harvard were accepted to many other great schools because they had the package that college were looking for.

While I'm sure that there were many white students with slightly higher GRE scores who applied to the same phd programs that I applied to and did not get in. It doesn't change the fact that my GRE scores were well the average of past admission classes. They aren't just admitting completely unqualified people.

i never said that they were admitting unqualified students, the students can be perfectly qualified, but at that level being qualified is not good enough, what i said is that some black students would not have gotten in without AA, that isnt an opinion thats just a fact

i dont need to prove it, if you dont know that then you dont understand whats going on

and at every school system that has gotten rid of AA the black student numbers have dropped

 

[bigDeeOT]

That bold part in my above quote should have said that they were NOT accepting UNqualified candidates (which has been my whole point).

Selective colleges in California didn't see much of a change in graduations rates because the Black and minorities they were admitting WERE qualified and graduating.

The original post you quoted didn't say they didn't see much change in graduation rates. It said that the less selective schools saw a bigger change than the selective ones. Even the selective schools saw a higher graduation rate.

"And we find that on-time college (degree) attainment rates either remained constant or increased slightly after passage of Prop 209 "

So this study directly contradicts what you would conclude are one of the benefits of affirmative action. You would say that the benefits are that more blacks receive a college degree with affirmative action. So then if we stopped affirmative action, we should see less blacks attain college degrees. This is not true.