What "intangible" IT factor is J. Cole missing that Drake seems to have?

[onelastdeath]

enjoy that Stale Bread sandwich Cole is forcing you backpackers to carry around

you drake stans go after any nikka who yall feel threatens Drizzy

When Kendrick was about to wash that nikka yall was all "fukk THAT nikka KENDRICK HE OVERRATED"

What yall gone do when someone comes along and washes this nikka AND sells more than him. Yall gone kill yourselves.

 

[Oceanicpuppy]

My nikka. I don't speak nothing but facts. I'm telling you PERSONALLY. that I was a bigger Drake stan than anyone could ever hope to be. I've met him thrice, and I know the history. I'm not talking bullshyt. Ye' grew up black in America. Not in the burbs, "Middle Class" in America might as well be poor. Drake grew up in Forest Hill Toronto. That's a rich Jew neighborhood. nikka complained more about "not seeing his dad" than seeing him. How could you say that a middle class black man in America, grew up the same as a biracial jew in Forest Hill Toronto. Cole's mama was on drugs, his father wasn't around either, add to the fact that he got a ACADEMIC scholarship, nikka didnt' fukking get a free ride for nothing. Drake is White America's poster child.

And yes, because he identifies as Jewish he can't say nikka. I don't know why that's so hard for nikkas to understand. Dude is a Jew. Hangs around those type of white folks who thinks its cool to say nikka. And he says that shyt excessively. To the point where pop culture takes it as something different. Which goes back to cultural misrepresentation. "nikka" isn't the same thing as "homie", but listening to Drake, you'd think it is. I don't call my white friends "my nikkas", its not the same thing. So yes, since he identifies as Jewish, he can't say nikka.

Drake is white America's dream. An appropriating half-white jew that is at the helm of black music. Who doesn't shed light on black issues but uses black slang. That gives white kids WHO GREW UP LIKE HIM in SUBURBS, license to say the shyt. And they got you nikkas cosigning that shyt. Defending that shyt. Somewhere down the line you guys are gonna cosign a white artist saying nikka. and say "cmon fam we gonna have double standards about that word?" Because it starts with this. Same thing that happened to Nicki, will happen to Drizzy. He's a trial run. They tested the waters with Nicki, and the second Iggy showed up doing the SAME shyt, in a white persons body, they shunned Nicki out. Drake, He's the guy they'll use to see how far they can dilute the quality. And then they'll swoop in and big up and white artist, and then that'll be rap FINISHED. Rap is one of the last black artforms thats still around. nikkas who pretend they can't see shyt will be the down fall of it. This indifference toward real shyt and fake shyt, is the problem.

Honestly, looking at it from another perspective, A white nicki or drake wouldn't bother me because their music is shallow, soulless and campy anyway. Both of them lack something in there music to me. Maybe black people could get back to real artistry once this crap is gone. I'm not saying Nicki or Drake have don't potential to make great music they do but seeing what they put out...I'm not impressed.

 

[Ineedmoney504]

Yeah, but Take Care was fukkin' amazing.


J Cole has a nice lane he's comfortable making a certain type of sound in...


But Crew Love will always be a personal fav that most artists in music, period... have seldom paralleled.



.

half of take care was wrote by the weeknd, that exactly why The atmosphere was the way it was.

And that the only thing I would give drake over cole, he creates a atmosphere thats unfukkwitable, only one thst does it better is the weeknd, and soon as u where crew love u know that has weeknd written all over it

 

[onelastdeath]

half of take care was wrote by the weeknd, that exactly why The atmosphere was the way it was.

And that the only thing I would give drake over cole, he creates a atmosphere thats unfukkwitable, only one thst does it better is the weeknd, and soon as u where crew love u know that has weeknd written all over it

I always forget that too. Abel was behind Take Care 100%. It's not a surprise that thats his best project. I might bump that shyt tonight

He gave Drake his whole blueprint for that album. I could never shyt on TC anyway. I respect good music. But Drake's been since that.

That whole Drake era was too tough. From the throwaways to the singles (sans Headlines ) Marvin's Room, Dreams Money Can Buy etc. It sounded like it was coming from a pure place. NWTS just didnt do it for me. He didn't create an atmosphere. The songs ain't compliment eachother well either. NWTS was stale to me. No themes. No hunger. Just braggadocious rhymes and pseudo problems.

 

[Master Teacher]

Drake's music has a certain atmosphere to it and it leans toward more R&B; a majority of his last album was soft sounding. Also he sings a lot more than he raps.

Basically, he makes R&B that guys can fukk with

It didn't say his music was good, I'm just saying its better produced, drake had a spark when started, but the sound is played out, all his songs sound the same
his album doesn't even have one memorable song, matter fact drake barely has any memorable songs

drake's music is R&B for skinny jean wearing nikkaz

real nikkaz been fukking Dave Hollister and shyt like that, that's R&B,

Drake is pop music

 

[Oceanicpuppy]

Drake is not a singer. Please stop with this R&B singer turned rapper or R&B rapper mess.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

you drake stans go after any nikka who yall feel threatens Drizzy

When Kendrick was about to wash that nikka yall was all "fukk THAT nikka KENDRICK HE OVERRATED"

What yall gone do when someone comes along and washes this nikka AND sells more than him. Yall gone kill yourselves.

Drake had the more memorable verse on "fukkin' problems" anyways

 

[onelastdeath]

Drake had the more memorable verse on "fukkin' problems" anyways

memorable? yes. He's Drake

Better? No, that's Kendrick

GKMC > TML + NWTS + TC

 

[Ineedmoney504]

Drake had the more memorable verse on "fukkin' problems" anyways

Girl I know what this dikk was the most qouted tho

 

[CashmereThoughts]

It's pretty obvious. Drakes focus is to make songs for bytches and to continuously coin catch phrases in his music.

J Cole is a die hard hip hop Stan that aspires to make pure hip hop for this era.

 

[Polofresh4]

In short, Drake makes better music

In a tad longer form, J Cole picked the average guy lane....when your in there so long...eventually u end up being average

You cant be average and have the IT factor...he eliminated himself

 

[ISO]

I don't know to many people who really believe that Drake is a better MC than Cole. Songwriter? I'll take that. Singer? Absolutely, No Debate. But a better lyricist? Never. It's just not true. Cole has MULTIPLE FLOWS. And different speeds and tempos he can spit in, evident on FHD. Look at this shyt


This nikka uses this same FLOW for every song, and he got you nikkas really debating like its something diferent. Ol', "let me stretch out my words, so I aint gotta put in any effort" ass nikka. C'mon B. Just stop. Every nikka who ain't down with OVO BLOWBANG BUKKAKE isn't a hater. Because I still bump some of his work to this day, but his new shyt is Yall nikkas just scared to say it






Is that a great verse? REALLY? My nikka are you joking. That's kid shyt. He didn't say ANYTHING. AT ALL. Nothing of merit. NO BARS. Nothing that you gotta rewind and say "" did he just say that"" all this shyt here is just nursery bullshyt. That Cole line on "FireSquad" and the other one on "January 28th" shyt on everything Drake has sad in the last 3 years. The bar where he said "Im so ahead of my time, even when I think about the future I be reminscing" and then the other one where he said "Cole is the hyponotist, control the game whenever he snap"" its shyt like that, that you dont get with Drake. Lyricism isnt up for debate. Yall nikkas call EVERYTHING Drake says is hot. He has some memorable bars. EARLY ON in his career. Quotables are NOT BARS. That's hashtag bullshyt. "She gone get upset if she keep scrolling to the left" and "nikkas wanna do it we can do it on they turf" are NOT BARS. those are quotables. Hashtag bullshyt. Not fukking bars.


UMM?

Missy Elliot
Lauryn Hill
Mos Def
Ja Rule
Pharell?

Drake ain't no goddamn original. Drake is a biracial Ja Rule, in a better generation to be a biracial Ja Rule. I never said Cole was once ina generation. Kendrick is. And some of you nikkas really try to debate that Drizzy fukking with KDOT TOO

I don't know ANYONE, who has labeled any of Drake's albums classics who arent' OVO BLOWBANG BUKKAKE members. Its widely noted that he doesnt have any certified classics. With all the hype, and all the praise, and all the cosigns, at the peak of his prowess, with all that support, he still aint got ONE CLASSIC. Not one thats certified. His highest metacritic is what? 78? FAR LOWER THAN KENDRICK, Lower than YG, and then theres MF's who try to compare him to Ye', but we'll save that for another day


Cole does appeal to blacks more, because he talks about black issues more. That alone is enough for black folks to buy his albums. They don't rap about the same shyt. Drake could never have a song like Love Yourz. Drake's music is for himself. He aint never had some motivational shyt. Not since he got on anyway. Drake's music is a teenage journal. To say he and cole Rap about the same shyt is a joke. I can't even picture Drizzy spittin something like that Love Yourz shyt. The problem with you Drake stans is that yall dont wanna take him as he is. Like yeah, he's a good artist, but hes damn sure not a GREAT artist. He's a great entertainer. As far as the appeal goes. But his artistry is not great. He aint got one album on any of the top 20-30 albums of the decade. And he's debuted, and enjoyed most of his success this decade. TML, TC, NWTS, none of them are lauded as classics. You guys wanna pretend he's Prince or something, but the dude isnt. He's solid most of the time. and trash the other half. He's not great though. Maybe he will be one day, but not yet :blackye:



Yeah he had songs like that, but he also had songs like Dollar And A Dream. and "I Get Up" talking about real shyt. Drake doesn't. That's his biggest flaw. It's okay to have your singles be about bytches, I aint mad at that, but his albums are just one long song. about the same shyt. over and over. and then when someone points it out, the Drake BUKKAKE army comes out and attacks. Dude is alright. That about it. He aint with Ye', He aint with Kendrick, he's the echelon 2 steps down, even with all the support.



It wasnt? How many classic albums have we had this decade that haven't come from Kendrick or Kanye Rap in general in that span, You got King by T.I, Tha Carter 3, Graduation, American Gangster, and so on and so on.

Drake uses the same flow in every song? Why you lying for now? So Cole has used more flows in his career than Drake? Why are you acting like Drake is only using that shout flow when he's only done that as of late and that was on Trophies, 6 God and for like 2/3rds of Worst Behavior. So Furthest Thing and The Language sound the same?

Please, show me where J.Cole has flowed his ass off like that I'd really like to see it.

How did his Too Much verse say nothing?

It's a highly introspective verse detailing his work ethic, the first major show of his career and family issues. That Paul Wall line is a triple entendre referencing woman being hesitant, Paul Wall's grills, the Houston weather and Houston MC OneHunnidt.

"I'm so ahead of my time, even when I think about the future I be reminiscing"
That's a cool line, a bit cliche Cole said something similar on The Warm Up, the Drake line above is clearly more clever. shyt like that can't possibly be the barometer for lyricism.


I said Lauryn Hill. Mos Def is not a better singer than Drake and they don't even do it in the same ways, Pharrell is trash, Drake is nothing like Ja.

Numbers don't make projects classic the people do, people still bumping So Far Gone 5 years later, you telling me Successful ain't a classic, that project has the beloved 80+ MetaCritic score you look for. Take Care got a 78 (just missed critical acclaim), but was critically acclaimed by other sources such as Rolling Stone, AllMusic, Pitchfork and Slant Magazine. I do know the album got praised as a new classic by Complex. I do know people of our generation still bump tracks off the album years later. That's what makes the album a classic, having classic songs, replay value, connecting with the audience.

I don't think you honestly believe Cole has more black fans than Drake, Cole doesn't have more fans of any race over Drake. Also, what's up with all this other shyt it's Drake vs. J. Cole and you bringing up a whole bunch of other things like Drake has no classics. Newsflash, neither does Cole you bringing up Kendrick when I have Kendrick as the best MC of this generation. This is Drake vs. Cole. Being more worldly doesn't make you a better rapper. Not every MC has to be political, you can have LL Cool J's and KRS-One's, you can have EPMD's and Public Enemy's, Hov's and Talib Kweli's in the same rap game. In terms of the technical aspects of rhyming, metaphors, double entendres, puns, little pop culture references how is Cole better, Cole does NOT have a better flow than Drake nor can he execute as many flows. Like I said Drake is more descriptive, Drake develops characters in his stories, so does K-Dot, Cole doesn't his stories tend to be very general and hypothetical. Also, Cole isn't THAT deep, he isn't that socially conscious for the MOST part he and Drake DO rap about the same shyt. How can you deny it if you really listened to both their catalogs? Cole sprinkles in a bit more worldly matters that's all but for the most part it's chicks, brag rhymes about their skills and what they overcame to be at the top of the game, hip hop nerd shyt (Cole talking about Rah Digga and Nas posters, Drake making tribute songs to UGK, both of them teaming up in Jodeci Freestyle), throwing in some family stuff.

Tha Carter III was one of the most overhyped albums of All-Time, doesn't even sound that great today and is a step down from the first two albums of the series, American Gangster is fine far from a universal classic there's albums that came out this year that are better, Graduation is one of my favorite albums ever but My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is better. There's albums in the 2010's better than King too just out the ATL, Big Boi, Flocka and Killer Mike dropped better albums in this generation IMO.

 

[KravenMorehead™]

This thread has grown between when I clicked in here and now, cause I was figuring a way to articulate what I wanted to say.

I listen to cole more than drake as well, but I think drake understands music slightly better than cole does.

I think Drake's musical IQ is higher than Coles. They both can get when things work or don't work, but drake seems to get WHY things work/don't work better than cole does. I'm not a fan of comparing artists against other artists (or things in general against other things, for that matter), but i'll touch on that later.

As far as lyrical content, mainstream rap tends to have two styles. There's the braggadocio type song/verse where it's rhyming acrobatics, then theres the song/verse where it's relatable and you can feel it. Most artists will chose which style they want the song to be about and apply that lyrically. Cole tends to mix the rhyming acrobatic style of lyrics and personal lyrics together on the same song, and that shyt doesn't work. I don't wanna hear one of the few high BPM tracks on your album and you talkin bout pullin hoes, and the next line you talkin bout coretta scott king. I mean you can rap about whatever you wanna rap about, but save serious shyt for serious topics and vice versa. Drake seems to understand that better than cole does.

Cole is not that lyrically creative. He doesn't turn phrases in a way that makes you go!!!! I've noticed that it seems in the industry they might give artists a tip to have that one line that gets people talking, and the only reason i was able to figure that out is cause alot of artists started doing it wrong, which made it noticeable. Lil wayne is a notorious example. J Cole does the same. "I'll let you think that you the shyt but boy you can't out fart me" or the "fakkit" line on Villuminati are notable in a bad way, and take me out of the song. Drake does that better than cole, even though drake's not no god with the shyt either.

Drake raps about his life, but he understands that he's rapping for every kind of person, so he raps his life and makes you feel like he's rapping about your life. Drake is the male equivalent to beyonce in that regard. Not exactly cause beyonce keeps it impersonal 100%, but bey makes music for upscale chicks who were cheerleaders in high school, actual cheerleaders in high school, feminists, hood rats getting weave put in at the hair salon, chicks working in high profile places, stay at home moms who just wanna keep a home and be in love with their man, gay guys, female managers with hoodrat tendencies, etc. She writes her lyrics with them indentifying with it in mind, so when the song comes on it touches all those different people, and so they buy the album cause it's the soundtrack to their life. Drake does the same thing with his music:


It’s your worst nightmare, it’s my first night here
And this girl right here, who knows what she knows?
So I’m going through her phone if she go to the bathroom
And her purse right there, I don’t trust these hoes at all
But that’s just the result of me paying attention
To all these women that think like men with the same intentions
Talking strippers and models that try to gain attention
Even a couple pornstars that I’m ashamed to mention
But Weezy and Stunna are my only role models
Heffer and Jordan are my only role models
That’s why I walk around with all this gold on
And every time I run into these nikkas they want no problems
Buy them sixes and chains, and some bracelets and rings
All of the little accents that make me a king
I never hear the disses they try and point out to me
But it’s whatever if somebody wan’ make it a thing
I’m more concerned what nikkas thinkin’ about Christmas in August
Do anything to buy gifts for they daughters
Get some shake a brick in the press
And chef it like Mrs. Fields they’re making the cookie stretch
I know it so well, I know the hustle so well
Stunt like I’m workin’ overnighters right by the motel
Drug money, outfit record clean
Spend it all on me and my fukkin’ team
Matchin’ Rollies for real, matchin’ Rovers for real
Places they say they’ve been, we’ve actually going for real
I’m really killin’ shyt, fukk all the jiggy rappin’
I’m going trigga happy just to see my nikkas happy
Mixtape legend, underground kings
Lookin’ for the right way to do the wrong things
With my new bytch that’s living in Palm Springs
Young ass nikka, lifelong dreams
They take the greats from the past and compare us
I wonder if they’d ever survive in this era
In a time where it’s recreation
To pull all your skeletons out the closet like Halloween decorations
I know of all the things that I hear they be pokin’ fun at
Never the flow though, they know I run that
fukk you all, I claim that whenever
I change rap forever, the game back together, yup
YM, I remain that forever
In the same place my brother Wayne that forever
I’m a descendent of either Marley or Hendrix
I haven’t figured it out cause my story is far from finished
I’m hearing all of the jokes, I know that they tryna push me
I know that showin’ emotion don’t ever mean I’m a p*ssy
Know that I don’t make music for nikkas who don’t get p*ssy
So those are the ones I count on to diss me or overlook me
Lord knows, Lord knows, I’m heavy, I got my weight up
Roll this and boost your rate up, it’s time that somebody paid up
A lot of nikkas came up off of a style that I made up
But if all I hear is me, then who should I be afraid of?
Bought a white Ghost, now shyt is gettin’ spooky
Very, very scary, like shyt you see in the movies
In this bytch all drinks on the house like Snoopy
That’s why all the real soldiers salute me
Trill nikka, for real

In one verse he said shyt that a nikka who fukks alotta hoes, a baller, a drug dealer, a chick selling p*ssy for a living, a fan of the old school, a dude who feels his manhood tested by muhfukkas around him can all feel like "damn he's talking about me", and still finds time to flip an ill similie or metaphor or two. Now personally, just for the songs he makes about saving hoes i don't listen to drake that much, I was a big fan of him by extension of little brother doing songs with him back in '07. When he got on the verge I saw things that made me not fukk with him, and I only recently downloaded his last 2 albums. But he casts a wider net lyrically than cole does, and does it in a way that doesn't feel false flagging. At least not until recently where the jokes forced him to start talking about extra other shyt. Ironically it's that shift in subject matter that made alot of people say they're tired of him...


Cole's imagery is pretty one note. I think he's doing that as a form of branding, but personally I don't see why it's necessary.

I've got a lot more to say on this, but it's a lot to articulate, so I'll come back to it. But to summarize quickly cole represents a problem I see in the industry in general, artists who go to the league straight from high school, without mastering the art. They need to learn certain things and unlearn others, but they tend to get stuck their ways cause they feel they've already arrived.

 

[CrimsonTider]

Tschool, a dude who feels his manhood tested by muhfukkas around him can all feel like "damn he's talking about me". Now personally, just for the songs he makes about saving hoes i don't listen to drake that much, I was a big fan of him by extension of little brother doing songs with him back in '07. When he got on the verge I saw things that made me not fukk with him, and I only recently downloaded his last 2 albums. But he casts a wider net lyrically than cole does, and does it in a way that doesn't feel false flagging. At least not until recently where the jokes forced him to start talking about extra other shyt. Ironically it's that shift in subject matter that made alot of people say they're tired of him...


Cole's imagery is pretty one note. I think he's doing that as a form of branding, but personally I don't see why it's necessary.

I've got a lot more to say on this, but it's a lot to articulate, so I'll come back to it. But to summarize quickly cole represents a problem I see in the industry in general, artists who go to the league straight from high school, without mastering the art. They need to learn certain things and unlearn others, but they tend to get stuck their ways cause they feel they've already arrived.

Great post, I would love to here more.

But, the bolded isn't true Drake has always talked about the same shyt. I think Dude revels in the Jokes because he is the one that truly isn't suppose to be here.

I also don't think what Cole is doing is sustainable. He's just not getting better and not doing anything new. He was so much better on BS than this album to me.

 

[KravenMorehead™]

Great post, I would love to here more.

But, the bolded isn't true Drake has always talked about the same shyt. I think Dude revels in the Jokes because he is the one that truly isn't suppose to be here.

I also don't think what Cole is doing is sustainable. He's just not getting better and not doing anything new. He was so much better on BS than this album to me.

i haven't fully listened to drake's major label releases besides singles so i'll take your word for it, but I was talking about the drug and "catch a body" references i recently started hearing. I'm not sure if he was doing this in the beginning. I know he didn't make those references in the comeback season/ so far gone times.

Sidenote: I had no idea comeback season drake was gonna be DRAKE. That shyt was crazy.

One thing drake has that Cole doesn't is a bigger machine behind him. Every album season Drake gets a GQ magazine cover, he's on ESPN, etc. So he hits his demographics in all the places they tune in to, and I think that translates to sales. Cole showing up at ferguson was his grassroots equivalent of that, whether he did that on purpose or no.

You're right about cole not getting better. I think he's in "lebron before he went to the heat" mode. He doesn't "get it" yet. I'm hoping he'll have a moment where it clicks and he goes off. Maybe the pressure of increasing fandom and eyes on him will spark something. Maybe.