What started the shift from simple rhymes (BusyBee/Run DMC) 2 the advanced lyricism of the late 80s?

[Take It In Blood]

The Rakims, Kool G Raps and Big Daddy Kanes of the world had no frame of reference or blueprint for them to explode lyrically the way they did. (Nas, Jay, Big etc were fortunate enough to have the blueprint they set for them in the late 80s, and Lupe, Kendrick and Cole were inspired by that 90s era)

What exactly changed the tide (and how the hell do we change it again?)

 

[AlainLocke]

You had proto rap like Gil Scott Heron and the Last Poets in the 70s that was lyrically intricate

You also had rap battles

Also had the decline of the DJ and Dance music

And just natural innovation

Have to remember that Hip Hop and dance music was heavily interwined until the mid to late 80s...

The MC wasn't the focus of the genre in Hip Hops infancy...

 

[3rdWorld]

Competition will produce a second generation with a more advanced product..
The early simple rhymes were made to digest well in parties..the more complex lyricism came about when hip hop diversified and became more street and less party.

 

[AV Dicey]

That's why he's the God MC. Before him there was nothing

 

[get these nets]

grandmaster cas and kool moe dee were the ones with complex rhyme patterns and flows

they helped propel hip hop forward and inspire the kanes and the ll cool js

 

[FreshAIG]

Grandmaster Caz, Treacherous Three, Silver Fox are generally given the credit for advanced rhyme schemes from that era bridging the gap between the Kurtis Blow types to Rakim and G Rap

 

[Flywin Lannister]

Grandmaster Caz, Treacherous Three, Silver Fox are generally given the credit for advanced rhyme schemes from that era bridging the gap between the Kurtis Blow types to Rakim and G Rap

From what I understand the MC that basically made the HUGE shift from your more 'upbeat, simplistic' flows AB-CB raps was Rakim. But it's interesting to hear these 3 names pop-up as building a foundation between just the simple rhymes to the advanced ones.

I think Rakim as a solo artist made that first impact that caused the landscape to shift to more complex rhymes because he was on a completely different level and then also the sound he had behind him, the production, was and felt different. I'm curious about Silver Fox because I know the first two - but I'm going to do some digging to know more about Silver Fox - any album in particular you'd recommend?

 

[Flywin Lannister]

grandmaster cas and kool moe dee were the ones with complex rhyme patterns and flows

they helped propel hip hop forward and inspire the kanes and the ll cool js

What about Rakim?

 

[get these nets]

What about Rakim?

they always say that

Caz, Moe dee, and Melle Mel were the first 3 kings

gonna assume that melle mel had some sort of influence on all future rappers....including Ra

Rakim and Krs don't have the obviously clear influences that kane and ll have....neither does g rap

 

[FreshAIG]

From what I understand the MC that basically made the HUGE shift from your more 'upbeat, simplistic' flows AB-CB raps was Rakim. But it's interesting to hear these 3 names pop-up as building a foundation between just the simple rhymes to the advanced ones.

I think Rakim as a solo artist made that first impact that caused the landscape to shift to more complex rhymes because he was on a completely different level and then also the sound he had behind him, the production, was and felt different. I'm curious about Silver Fox because I know the first two - but I'm going to do some digging to know more about Silver Fox - any album in particular you'd recommend?

Silver Fox was in the group Fantasy Three and was out before albums were a thing (around 1983). G Rap and LL specifically name Silver Fox as their biggest influence. They were some of the first to use multiple syllables when rapping. G Rap and others built off from that, but they were some of the forefathers of that style.

 

[get these nets]

I always heard LL mention Silver Fox but never heard Kool G mention him, thanks @FreshAIG

 

[BmoreGorilla]

That's why he's the God MC. Before him there was nothing

This. The answer is Rakim. He invented the flow

 

[Ian Ahbaa f/ Area51]

I always credited Kool G.
Rakim ,however, da gawd of flows

 

[FreshAIG]

I always heard LL mention Silver Fox but never heard Kool G mention him, thanks @FreshAIG

Kool G Rap on the Highly Technical Rap Style That Influenced Generations – Rolling Stone

If you go back and listen to what rap music was in 1989, what you did was like a quantum leap stylistically. Just the way that you stack the syllables internally in “Road to the Riches.” Maybe like a little bit of Treacherous Three, maybe a little bit of Big Daddy Kane was doing that before, but it feels like the intensity you brought to that was unlike anything that was around back then. What is the origin point for the complicated technical stuff?

To me, it was the influence of hearing artists when I was younger. To me, they was one step into the future, outside everybody else at the time, and that was Melle Mel, Kool Moe Dee, Silver Fox from Fantasy Three. A lot of people are not aware of them, but Silver Fox was a dope, dope rapper. It was listening to those guys and see how they didn’t just settle for being just like everybody else. They wanted to go the extra distance to stand out and be better than everybody. I was an artist that had the same desires. I didn’t want to blend in with anybody else and what they doing. I wanted to be technical. I wanted to be complex. I wanted to make my act a hard act to follow. Bottom line. And so I just kept pushing and pushing myself. Just do more than what everybody else was doing.

 

[L. Deezy]

The Message and Melle Mel

Once the story form emerged, it became the new blueprint...