What's Jordan's legacy had Len Bias never pass away

[Champ_KW]

Jordan didn't get any rings in Kareem's era.

Who was the best center he even faced in the finals? Rookie Vlade Divac?

Actually, rookie Vlade Divac is the best center the Bulls ever faced in the Finals and it isn't even close.

He never faced Hakeem or The Admiral in the playoffs. The first time he faced Shaq he got washed, the 2nd time the Magic lost 4 of their top 6 to injury and were hurting so bad Phil Jackson had to go up and say he was sorry about what was happening by Game 3. Not a single one of the great bigs of Jordan's era had the team they needed around them except in 1994-1995.

Jordan is my #1 all-time. He deserves it. But the idea that he was undefeatable is dumb fan-boy stuff. Like every other great in history, he had to catch a lot of breaks, and he caught more than most. It wouldn't have taken all that to push the needle to a loss in some of those years. That doesn't mean he's not the greatest, it just means that you start sounding like an SNL skit.

Bob: Which brings us to our very special guest, you know him as the Airman.

Together: Da AirMan

Bob: Here he is Michael Jordan. (Michael Enters). Alright, Michael I do know the boys have a lot of questions, so uh let's get started. Gentleman.

Carl: Yeah well Michael uh, what about the Olympics. You're representing our country. Isn't there a concern that these games are a little lop sided?

Bob: Yeah, why don't you just play these countries by yourself?

Todd: Yeah that's a good idea.

Michael: I don't think they would let me do that, guys.

Carl: What if you could have two players? Say you, and a certain coach Ditka.

Pat: That's already unfair again.

Todd: Yeah that's no contest.

Bob: If I may shift gears for a moment gentleman, coach Ditka vs. a hurricane, who would win?

Todd, Pat, Carl: Ditka, Ditka!!

Bob: Hold on, Hold on, Hold on. The name of the Hurricane is Hurricane Ditka.

Kareem retired in 1989. MJ played against him and he played against all the other greats all the way to Shaq. The point remains, Sabonis wasn't gonna upset the apple cart like that. You keep clinging to Divac and Duckworths of the world because it makes your narrative sound better, but keep ignoring MJ going thru the Ewings, Mournings, and Shaqs of the world just to get to the Finals. Don't tell me what you think Sabonis could have been, when I saw MJ go thru the 2nd leading scorer in NBA history twice for a ring.

 

[staticshock]

You can be ignorant if you want, but why put yourself out there like that?

Was there a better player than Sabonis who could matched primes with Jordan, but didn't?

Was there a better team than Portland who could have beat the Bulls with just one more piece?

If you didn't know that Sabonis was widely regarded as one of the top players in the world, if you didn't know that he looked every bit as good as the Admiral when they went head-to-head in 1988 even though he was playing injured, if you didn't know that multiple NBA players, coaches, and GMs called him one of the greatest in the world, then I can understand. But why admit it?

In 1992 Kevin Duckworth was . As the starting center he averaged 10 and 6 on 46% shooting and couldn't play defense for shyt (wasn't even top-5 on the team in blocks).

In 1998 when Sabonis was 33 years old and couldn't bend his knees or jump any more from all the injuries, he still averaged 16 and 10 on 50% shooting with 3 assists and over a block a game and was one of the better one-on-one defensive centers in the league.

Even an old, washed Sabonis was still >>>>> than Duckworth. And you don't think a prime, injury-free Sabonis could have made the difference in 1992 when the Blazers were up 15 in the 4th in Game 6?






Why would the Bulls win in 1995? That was a much lesser version than the 1993 or 1996 teams, they just weren't good enough that year. Jordan had a dominant playoff run and they still lost, if he hadn't left then he would have been more worn down at that point.

But I think they would have broken down long before that. Even as it was, they had a crazy streak of luck where their top-8 all staying healthy for all six Finals runs, with the two-year gap in the middle. If they had kept playing 100+ games every year without that break they would have had a breakdown in their key players before then.


And why would the Blazers only make the 1992 Finals with a healthy Sabonis in his prime?

In 1991, even with bum Duckworth starting at the 5, Blazers were a 63-19 team that took the Lakers to 6 in the WCF. Kevin Duckworth averaged 10 and 6 on 37% shooting in the series and only blocked one shot in 6 games while a rookie Divac buried him, averaging 13ppg on 62% shooting.

Vlade himself said straight up that prime Sabonis was better than prime Admiral. You don't think that Sabonis is >>>>>>>> than Duckworth and the Blazers aren't the best team in the NBA in 1991 if they have him?

In 1993, Portland still won 51 games even though Duckworth was now useless and Drexler missed half the season hurt. Otherwise they still had their same guys, Porter was 29, Drexler and Kersey were 30, Buck was 32, Cliff was 26. Sabonis would have been 28 when the season started. By the time the playoffs came around, Duckworth had declined so much the Blazers had to start Mark Bryant at center, and The Admiral beat them up inside. If Sabonis had been carrying the team by that point, the wear on Drexler and everyone else would have been less. Drexler proved that in 1995 he was still good enough to be a strong #2 to a dominant #1, I think that from 1993-1995 the Blazers would have been real contenders still with prime Sabonis leading the way and Drexler/Porter/Kersey/Buck/Cliff as a solid core behind him.

Not to mention 1990, of course.

I think if Sabonis enters the NBA healthy in 1986 and stayed healthy, Blazers probably win 2 at least with a chance at several more.

what are you trying to prove right now? that you watch more film than anyone or something?

you can not be serious sitting her telling me Arvydas fukkin Sabonis is the reason MJ has the legacy that he does

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

Lebron stans juelzing a whole bunch of what if scenarios to try to bring Jordan down to Lebron's level. Clown listed 7 what ifs for one game..."if jordan didnt do this, if pippen didnt do that, if the refs didnt do this, if phil didnt do that, if sabonis was in that game, if if if if if"


If lebron doesn't go to miami, he's probably ringless and never gets to play with kyrie, who never gets to give lebron a ring for the land. We also wouldn't have been blessed with these classic nba finals moments from the kang.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Jordan never faced a championship team in the Finals unless you include a Lakers team in 91 (that should not have even been there). But being 6-0 in Finals is a great accomplishment.

For whatever reason, the only great center who had a quality team around him in that time was Shaq and then Hakeem in 1995 and 1997 (yeah I know they won in 1994 and all, but their opponents second best player was John starks ), which was really the last 2-3 years where Hakeem was good enough to be the best player on a champion . Patrick was out there trying to win with John starks and Charles Smith and I don’t recall Robinson having much more help before Duncan arrived in 1997 . Expansion has to be a big part. Those extra 6 teams from 1988-95 is a lot more than the league should’ve added in that time span. An extra 90 roster spots so we ended up with a lot of stars with very little help playing for some bad teams at the time. By comparison, we’ve only gotten one extra team in the last 22 years.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Lebron stans juelzing a whole bunch of what if scenarios to try to bring Jordan down to Lebron's level. .

Spend all that time pasting on clips when you didn't even understand what you were reading.

I already said that every star catches breaks like that on the way to winning their championships.

I already said that Jordan is my #1 of all time.

You staying struggle-posting every time you step into an NBA conversation. Why don't you try starting over again and respond to the actual point, instead of just making up stuff that has nothing to do with what i said?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Kareem retired in 1989. MJ played against him and he played against all the other greats all the way to Shaq. The point remains, Sabonis wasn't gonna upset the apple cart like that. You keep clinging to Divac and Duckworths of the world because it makes your narrative sound better, but keep ignoring MJ going thru the Ewings, Mournings, and Shaqs of the world just to get to the Finals. Don't tell me what you think Sabonis could have been, when I saw MJ go thru the 2nd leading scorer in NBA history twice for a ring.

Why does it matter that Jordan played against 41-year-old Kareem in some regular season games back when Jordan wasn't going anywhere in the playoffs?

And Jordan got wasted by Shaq's team the first time around. The second time around every starter on Orlando except Shaq and Penny got hurt, and some of their replacements got hurt too, so I'm not sure what you think the accomplishment was there.

Yes, he did beat teams with Morning and Ewing on them. Those teams also relied on guys like Voshon Lenard and Grant Long and had to put John Starks in a starring role.

The reason I'm talking about Duckworth is because Duckworth was the WORST starter on a team full of talent. He was a huge negative on both ends. And instead of him, the Blazers could have had one of the top centers in the world at that position, if only the USSR had allowed his release. The idea that that wouldn't make a difference is completely ignorant.

The ultimate "I know something you don't know" posting. Cats dig up some obscure footage and think they Phil Jackson and Red Aurbauch
Who cares what ya'll think "could have happened?" It didn't, so that's just as good as it couldn't

The 1986 World Championships and 1988 Olympics where the USSR beat David Robinson and team USA, leading us to create the Dream Team, are "obscure footage" now?

what are you trying to prove right now? that you watch more film than anyone or something?

you can not be serious sitting her telling me Arvydas fukkin Sabonis is the reason MJ has the legacy that he does

This is proof that you think in full-on myth status instead of actually looking at the games. It's all about "MJ's legacy" versus "Arvydas fukkin Sabonis." You can't even look at what was actually happening on their court, you're pretty much just running with the emotion their names bring at this point.

1991-1995 Duckworth was horrible at both ends. Prime Sabonis would have been one of the best centers in the NBA. How does that not make a difference?



Detlef Schrempf: “I played against Sabonis since I was sixteen, I told everyone that if Sabonis was in the NBA he'd be the best player possibly ever”


Clyde Drexler: "We would have had four, five or six titles. Guaranteed. He was that good. He could pass, shoot three pointers, had a great post game, and dominated the paint. And he would have been younger. He was very effective in the NBA as an older player who had suffered an ankle injury."


Bill Walton: “Sabonis was 7'3" Larry Bird”

Bill Walton: “We looked at each other, our jaws just dropping, and I said, ‘You might as well just rewrite the rules of basketball after watching him play for just the first half,’ the first time I ever saw him. When you think of the history of basketball, the rules were changed to make it harder for three guys: Russell, Wilt, and Kareem. All the other rules have been changed to make it easier. He could do everything. He had the skills of Larry Bird and Pete Maravich. He had the athleticism of Kareem, and he could shoot the 3-point shot. He could pass and run the floor, dribble. We should have carried out a plan in the early 1980s to kidnap him and bring him back right then.”


Rick Carlisle: “I have no doubt Arvydas would be in the conversation as a top 15 or 20 player all-time without the injuries."


Charles Barkley: "He was one of the five best players in the world."


Bobby Knight: "I thought he was as good a prospect as I had ever seen. He was stronger than Bill Walton. I couldn't get over what potential he had. Such a great raw talent."


Alexander Gomelsky: "He was the greatest European player of the last 100 years. He came to the NBA too late, obviously. But when you talk about players like Walton, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Russell, Sabonis was certainly on that level."


Mike Dunleavy: "He was one of the top centers of all time. When you see him now, you might consider him a pretty good player. But back then, there wasn't anybody who could guard him. The players he plays against now couldn't have done anything against him back then. Not even Shaq could have guarded him."


Mike Dunleavy: "There's no question that before he came over, he was one of the top three centers in the world, right there with (Kareem) Abdul-Jabbar and (Bill) Walton. He could run like a deer, shoot, pass. He would have been incredible."


Maurice Cheeks: "He was an unbelievable player. I don't know if people could fully appreciate what he did unless you saw him on a consistent basis. His skill set was incredible. He could score, pass ... I just wish I had him 10 years earlier. I would still be coaching in Portland."


Vlade Divac: “He was the best center I ever saw in my life. I can say easy he was a better player than Shaq, Ewing, Hakeem. I'm telling you, he was the best center I had ever seen.”


P.J. Carlesimo: “He's a great, great big man, but without the injury? Had he played here for a long time and not had injuries, there's absolutely no limit to how good he could have been.”


Donnie Nelson: “Arvydas was Dirk Nowitzki, only 7'3", he shot threes, passed the ball like Larry or Magic... I don't know if there's another player in the history of the game that can do what he did, he's simply one of the best ever to put on a basketball uniform”


Donnie Nelson: "A quicker Bill Walton. You didn't have to be a rocket scientist to know he'd play well. The guy's 7-3, he has that bulk and his passing ability. He was the second-best three-point shooter on our Lithuanian team to Rinas Kurtinaitis, who's world class. The guys on the Dream Team told me they couldn't believe how big the guy is. You see tall guys, but you don't see guys who are that tall and that bulky or proportioned. When you've got guys who understand the game like Chris Mullin and Stockton and they see a guy who's got that kind of vision, who understands the game--guys like that like to play against each other. Coaching him was a cakewalk. The game is so easy for him. He's so smart."


Damon Stoudamire: "For somebody whose skills were supposed to have been deteriorated by the time he got here, he was unbelievable. He was probably the best passing big man I have ever seen. But I would have loved to see him in his prime. That would be something to be seen."


Q: Who was the best Eastern European player to ever play the game?

David Thorpe: Sabonis.

Q: Have you seen tape of Sabonis in his prime (playing in Russia)? I haven't, but I've always heard that if he had played his entire career in the NBA, he'd be considered one of the 5-10 best centers ever.

David Thorpe: Maybe top 4. Best passer ever for a big

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

Spend all that time pasting on clips when you didn't even understand what you were reading.

I already said that every star catches breaks like that on the way to winning their championships.

I already said that Jordan is my #1 of all time.

You staying struggle-posting every time you step into an NBA conversation. Why don't you try starting over again and respond to the actual point, instead of just making up stuff that has nothing to do with what i said?

Spend all that time getting youtube educated on basketball to write paragraphs no one gives 2 shyts about.

Invest your time more wisely.

 

[Jplaya2023]

Jordan didn't get any rings in Kareem's era.

Who was the best center he even faced in the finals? Rookie Vlade Divac?

Actually, rookie Vlade Divac is the best center the Bulls ever faced in the Finals and it isn't even close.

He never faced Hakeem or The Admiral in the playoffs. The first time he faced Shaq he got washed, the 2nd time the Magic lost 4 of their top 6 to injury and were hurting so bad Phil Jackson had to go up and say he was sorry about what was happening by Game 3. Not a single one of the great bigs of Jordan's era had the team they needed around them except in 1994-1995.

Jordan is my #1 all-time. He deserves it. But the idea that he was undefeatable is dumb fan-boy stuff. Like every other great in history, he had to catch a lot of breaks, and he caught more than most. It wouldn't have taken all that to push the needle to a loss in some of those years. That doesn't mean he's not the greatest, it just means that you start sounding like an SNL skit.

Bob: Which brings us to our very special guest, you know him as the Airman.

Together: Da AirMan

Bob: Here he is Michael Jordan. (Michael Enters). Alright, Michael I do know the boys have a lot of questions, so uh let's get started. Gentleman.

Carl: Yeah well Michael uh, what about the Olympics. You're representing our country. Isn't there a concern that these games are a little lop sided?

Bob: Yeah, why don't you just play these countries by yourself?

Todd: Yeah that's a good idea.

Michael: I don't think they would let me do that, guys.

Carl: What if you could have two players? Say you, and a certain coach Ditka.

Pat: That's already unfair again.

Todd: Yeah that's no contest.

Bob: If I may shift gears for a moment gentleman, coach Ditka vs. a hurricane, who would win?

Todd, Pat, Carl: Ditka, Ditka!!

Bob: Hold on, Hold on, Hold on. The name of the Hurricane is Hurricane Ditka.

let me ask you a question, you say he never faced dream or drob in the playoffs, but is that jordan's fault? Was jordan not in the finals 6 times in 8 years in which dream or drob could've made it there. The bulls beat the teams that beat them. So you bring them up beating weak centers but admiral lost to the suns in 93 and their starting C was mark west dream lost to greg ostertag in 97 and 98 so why would it matter how bad the bulls C's were when they lose to C's as good or worse than them?

Also you bring up Shaq washing the bulls in 95, that's very disingenuous and you know it. The bulls had the 2 biggest margin of victory in the series. The series basically came down to jordan's turnover in game 1 and the bulls blowing that 8 point lead with 3 minutes left in game 6. Otherwise the conversation would be different.

I won't get into jordan not being in basketball shape (Evidence by him wearing down in game 6 and his turnovers in game 1). I'll focus on why the bulls lost besides that. Phil Jackson decided not to guard horace grant and he shot 60% all series and the bulls had multiple cross matches on defense because we didn't have the personnel to match up to orlando that year. We still had BJ at point and because we had no PF pippen had to guard grant most of the game which means BJ had to guard penny or at times michael was on him as well.

As far as Shaq he put up 24-13-4 in 95 and 27-11-4 in 96. He was the same. Penny's numbers were better in 96 as well.

The bulls stopped their 3pt shooting as anderson shot 3/15 and scott was 3/19 in the series.

 

[ISO]

If anyone lost it was gonna be the Pistons, not the Bulls. Bird wasn't gonna be out there taking rings in the 1990s.

The big "what if" is what if the USSR had released Sabonis to the Blazers before they destroyed his knees. THAT is a player who could have single-handedly wrecked some of Jordan's title hopes.

Blazers went to 6 with the Bulls in 1992 with a worthless Kevin Duckworth at the 5. How many titles would they have won from 1990-1996 with a prime Sabonis in that spot instead?

Detlef Schrempf said repeatedly that if Sabonis had been allowed in the league, he would be the best player in the NBA. He was seeing him play in person in Europe and calling him straight-up better than anyone in the league while Jordan, Magic, and Bird were all playing. Donnie Nelson said he was a more athletic Bill Walton with a better shot. George Karl said he was the best guy in the world outside the NBA and the guy any NBA team needed to chase if they wanted to win a title. P.J. Carlesimo said there was no limit to how good he could have been. Bob Whitsitt is the one who scouted and recruited him, and he said he could have had a Jordan-like impact on the game. And Bill Walton himself?



This video is misleading because he was actually injured for a lot of the games they show here (he played the entire 1988 Olympics injured), but watch an injured Sabonis giving that work to David Robinson. Sabonis is basically the reason the Dream Team had to be created.




Even old, hobbled Sabonis could give the Bulls that work:



Those Nike calls MJ was getting at 3:10 and 5:32 though.



All sorts of guys big-upping Sabonis:





Adding Sabonis to those 1990s Blazers teams would have been almost on the level of a Durant to the Warriors level impact. The Blazers were already 60+ game winners and a contender with a terrible center, now they'd be wiping the floor with one of the best centers in the league. Look at how awful the teams were that were built around Hakeem and Robinson at the time, then imagine Drexler, Porter, Kersey, Buck, Cliff Robinson, Danny Ainge, and Drazen Petrovic with Sabonis in the middle.

Always thought how good Sabonis supposedly was, was hyperbole. That 1988 footage doesn’t really look all that impressive to me. He doesn’t look anywhere near as good as a modern big like Anthony Davis or a Hakeem Olajuwon back then.

Was he really that good? Who is he comparable to? What they are describing sounds like a mash up of Kristaps Porzingis and Nikola Jokic.

 

[Noah]

Why is Arvydas not someone who could've changed the outcome of at least the '92 Finals? Even with what we have seen of him in the NBA, as a hobbled as fukk 30+ year old 30 lbs heavier than his prime weight, he was still a high impact player for the Blazers. Think it's safe to say he would've been All-NBA caliber had he been able to come over in his early twenties and get the rehab he needed on his achilles and whatever else.

 

[C-Styles]

I'm glad this thread turned into a "School youngins on Arvydas". People here really are too young to comprehend how powerful that man was on the court

Yes a prime Arvydas would've made that portland team a dynasty

i'm just glad that he came late in his career for the sake of my Bulls team

 

[010101]

celtics had a bad run of luck*

 

[Champ_KW]

Why does it matter that Jordan played against 41-year-old Kareem in some regular season games back when Jordan wasn't going anywhere in the playoffs?

And Jordan got wasted by Shaq's team the first time around. The second time around every starter on Orlando except Shaq and Penny got hurt, and some of their replacements got hurt too, so I'm not sure what you think the accomplishment was there.

Yes, he did beat teams with Morning and Ewing on them. Those teams also relied on guys like Voshon Lenard and Grant Long and had to put John Starks in a starring role.

The reason I'm talking about Duckworth is because Duckworth was the WORST starter on a team full of talent. He was a huge negative on both ends. And instead of him, the Blazers could have had one of the top centers in the world at that position, if only the USSR had allowed his release. The idea that that wouldn't make a difference is completely ignorant.




The 1986 World Championships and 1988 Olympics where the USSR beat David Robinson and team USA, leading us to create the Dream Team, are "obscure footage" now?




This is proof that you think in full-on myth status instead of actually looking at the games. It's all about "MJ's legacy" versus "Arvydas fukkin Sabonis." You can't even look at what was actually happening on their court, you're pretty much just running with the emotion their names bring at this point.

1991-1995 Duckworth was horrible at both ends. Prime Sabonis would have been one of the best centers in the NBA. How does that not make a difference?



Detlef Schrempf: “I played against Sabonis since I was sixteen, I told everyone that if Sabonis was in the NBA he'd be the best player possibly ever”


Clyde Drexler: "We would have had four, five or six titles. Guaranteed. He was that good. He could pass, shoot three pointers, had a great post game, and dominated the paint. And he would have been younger. He was very effective in the NBA as an older player who had suffered an ankle injury."


Bill Walton: “Sabonis was 7'3" Larry Bird”

Bill Walton: “We looked at each other, our jaws just dropping, and I said, ‘You might as well just rewrite the rules of basketball after watching him play for just the first half,’ the first time I ever saw him. When you think of the history of basketball, the rules were changed to make it harder for three guys: Russell, Wilt, and Kareem. All the other rules have been changed to make it easier. He could do everything. He had the skills of Larry Bird and Pete Maravich. He had the athleticism of Kareem, and he could shoot the 3-point shot. He could pass and run the floor, dribble. We should have carried out a plan in the early 1980s to kidnap him and bring him back right then.”


Rick Carlisle: “I have no doubt Arvydas would be in the conversation as a top 15 or 20 player all-time without the injuries."


Charles Barkley: "He was one of the five best players in the world."


Bobby Knight: "I thought he was as good a prospect as I had ever seen. He was stronger than Bill Walton. I couldn't get over what potential he had. Such a great raw talent."


Alexander Gomelsky: "He was the greatest European player of the last 100 years. He came to the NBA too late, obviously. But when you talk about players like Walton, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Russell, Sabonis was certainly on that level."


Mike Dunleavy: "He was one of the top centers of all time. When you see him now, you might consider him a pretty good player. But back then, there wasn't anybody who could guard him. The players he plays against now couldn't have done anything against him back then. Not even Shaq could have guarded him."


Mike Dunleavy: "There's no question that before he came over, he was one of the top three centers in the world, right there with (Kareem) Abdul-Jabbar and (Bill) Walton. He could run like a deer, shoot, pass. He would have been incredible."


Maurice Cheeks: "He was an unbelievable player. I don't know if people could fully appreciate what he did unless you saw him on a consistent basis. His skill set was incredible. He could score, pass ... I just wish I had him 10 years earlier. I would still be coaching in Portland."


Vlade Divac: “He was the best center I ever saw in my life. I can say easy he was a better player than Shaq, Ewing, Hakeem. I'm telling you, he was the best center I had ever seen.”


P.J. Carlesimo: “He's a great, great big man, but without the injury? Had he played here for a long time and not had injuries, there's absolutely no limit to how good he could have been.”


Donnie Nelson: “Arvydas was Dirk Nowitzki, only 7'3", he shot threes, passed the ball like Larry or Magic... I don't know if there's another player in the history of the game that can do what he did, he's simply one of the best ever to put on a basketball uniform”


Donnie Nelson: "A quicker Bill Walton. You didn't have to be a rocket scientist to know he'd play well. The guy's 7-3, he has that bulk and his passing ability. He was the second-best three-point shooter on our Lithuanian team to Rinas Kurtinaitis, who's world class. The guys on the Dream Team told me they couldn't believe how big the guy is. You see tall guys, but you don't see guys who are that tall and that bulky or proportioned. When you've got guys who understand the game like Chris Mullin and Stockton and they see a guy who's got that kind of vision, who understands the game--guys like that like to play against each other. Coaching him was a cakewalk. The game is so easy for him. He's so smart."


Damon Stoudamire: "For somebody whose skills were supposed to have been deteriorated by the time he got here, he was unbelievable. He was probably the best passing big man I have ever seen. But I would have loved to see him in his prime. That would be something to be seen."


Q: Who was the best Eastern European player to ever play the game?

David Thorpe: Sabonis.

Q: Have you seen tape of Sabonis in his prime (playing in Russia)? I haven't, but I've always heard that if he had played his entire career in the NBA, he'd be considered one of the 5-10 best centers ever.

David Thorpe: Maybe top 4. Best passer ever for a big

You're all over the place. I'm flabbergasted at how your point of reference for all this Sabonis fellatio is a game against a college David Robinson. In fact, Robinson went for 19 and 12 to Sabonis 13 and 13. Using old ass quotes from the likes of Donnie Nelson talking about how he was a 7'3" Dirk.....well we saw what Dirk was able to do.....be an all timer with one ring. But hey, the guy that got outplayed by a 23 year old college senior would've been the foil to MJ's dominance.

 

[Primetime21]

what's len bias legacy if he never passed away?

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

what's len bias legacy if he never passed away?

Who knows? He never even got to participate in a training camp, let alone have a career