Whats the gap between Westbrook and Wall?

[42 Monks]

Curry aside, there really isn't a big difference between all the top PGs in the league. Wall's definitely bridged the gap on Westbrook this season. But what one must remember is that Wall's surrounded by better talent (well more specifically a better starting lineup), he certainly wouldn't look as good if he had to play with OKC's roster.

I'd definitely argue that. Westbrook got decent players looking lost and confused for entire stretches of the game regularly while Wall is constantly spoonfeeding his team to keep them engaged and relevant.

 

[FS4LFE]

Personally I want Wall. I do not think you can win a championship with Westbrook. If I were a player I wouldn't want to play with him and if I were a coach I'd be frustrated coaching him.

Yeah. Westbrook best trait is also his worst. He plays like his girl is sitting front row. Sometimes you need to slow things down and run an offense.

 

[CrimsonTider]

only 3.5 rebounds

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

Give me Wall

 

[BigTyme Records]

Personally I want Wall. I do not think you can win a championship with Westbrook. If I were a player I wouldn't want to play with him and if I were a coach I'd be frustrated coaching him.

I wouldn't want to play with Russ either

 

[DALLASMAVERICKS]

what gap? john wall is much better

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I'd definitely argue that. Westbrook got decent players looking lost and confused for entire stretches of the game regularly while Wall is constantly spoonfeeding his team to keep them engaged and relevant.

I'd somewhat agree (I do agree that Wall is better at identifying when players needs touches and at managing the game), however Westbrook is caught between a rock and a hard place with his starting lineup. Yes he most definitely needs to balance when to shoot/pass better, but he also plays with the worst shooting shooting-guard in the league. It's harder for him to balance when to look for his shot and score and when to get his teammates going, when they can't hit their shots at a regular rate. Westbrook is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't for the large part. We saw all throughout the first round, Westbrook collapsing the defense and kicking it out to a wide-open Roberson who would either throw up a brick or he'd be hesistant to shoot - forcing an errant pass to a teammate because he didn't want to shoot the ball. Wall has the luxury of being able to take a beat seat and spoonfeed players like Otto or let players like Beal cook on their own because they have legitimate scoring skillsets. I mean shyt Beal didn't average 23 ppg on high shooting percentages this season for nothing.

If Wall had to play with Roberson as his backcourt partner, no matter how much spoonfeeding would ever put Roberson in the same frame as Beal as a scorer. Wall would then have the conundrum of working out when to stop passing to Roberson and looking to score -- even if he was heavily guarded and Roberson was open. It's a lot easier to make decisions as a ball-handler to get guys involved when you know you can rely on them.

 

[BigTyme Records]

what gap? john wall is much better

Aint Russ winning MVP? or so I've heard

 

[BigTyme Records]

I'd somewhat agree (I do agree that Wall is better at identifying when players needs touches and at managing the game), however Westbrook is caught between a rock and a hard place with his starting lineup. Yes he most definitely needs to balance when to shoot/pass better, but he also plays with the worst shooting shooting-guard in the league. It's harder for him to balance when to look for his shot and score and when to get his teammates going, when they can't hit their shots at a regular rate. Westbrook is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't for the large part. We saw all throughout the first round, Westbrook collapsing the defense and kicking it out to a wide-open Roberson who would either throw up a brick or he'd be hesistant to shoot - forcing an errant pass to a teammate because he didn't want to shoot the ball. Wall has the luxury of being able to take a beat seat and spoonfeed players like Otto or let the players Beal cook on their own because they have legitimate scoring skillsets. I mean shyt Beal didn't average 23 ppg on high shooting percentages this season for nothing.

If Wall had to play with Roberson as his backcourt partner, no matter how much spoonfeeding he did it would ever put Roberson in the same frame as Beal as a scorer. Wall would then have the conundrum of working out when to stop passing to Roberson and looking to score -- even if he was heavily guarded and Roberson was open. It's a lot easier to make decisions as a ball-handler to get guys involved when you know you can rely on them.

But bro he played the same with KD imo he just has terrible shot selection

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

But bro he played the same with KD imo he just has terrible shot selection

His style of play is the same, but you'd be heavily mistaken if you think he didn't get KD involved all throughout the game. Even giving up the ball late in games for KD to handle.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I wouldn't rank one above the other because they have very different styles. But if I were building a team, I'd pass on Westbrook. I think that Wall would have a much better chance of being part of a championship team than Westbrook - Russ already had his chance to partner with two MVP-level talents and a really well filled-out roster and couldn't make it, and he seems to have even regressed in his decision-making since then.

I'd somewhat agree (I do agree that Wall is better at identifying when players needs touches and at managing the game), however Westbrook is caught between a rock and a hard place with his roster. Yes he needs to balance when to shoot/pass better, but he also plays with the worst shooting shooting-guard in the league. It's harder for him to balance when to look for his shot and score and when to get his teammates going, when they can't hit their shots at a regular rate. Westbrook is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. We saw all throughout the first round, Westbrook collapsing the defense and kicking it out to a wide-open Roberson who would either throw up a brick or he'd be hesistant to shoot - forcing an errant pass to a teammate because he didn't want to shoot the ball. Wall has the luxury of being able to take a beat seat and spoonfeed players like Otto or let the players Beal cook on their own because they have legitimate scoring skillsets. I mean shyt Beal didn't average 23 ppg on high shooting percentages this season for nothing.

If Wall had to play with Roberson as his backcourt partner, no matter how much spoonfeeding he did it would ever put Roberson in the same frame as Beal as a scorer. Wall would then have the conundrum of working out when to stop passing to Roberson and looking to score -- even if he was heavily guarded and Roberson was open.

If Wall was on the Thunder, he wouldn't have to play with Roberson as his backcourt partner because he'd actually be trying on defense. The Thunder could have rolled out lineups like Wall-Oladipo-McDermott-Gibson-Adams or Wall-Abrines-Oladipo-Kanter-Adams a lot more often, and had Wall feeding guys all over the court. Part of the reason that the Thunder kept Roberson next to Westbrook 24/7 (in a vacuum a stupid decision after Durant's shot attempts were pulled out of the lineup) is because Westbrook wanted to focus on giving 100% of his energy to offense and rebounds and chose to ignore the other team's backcourt entirely.

 

[42 Monks]

I'd somewhat agree (I do agree that Wall is better at identifying when players needs touches and at managing the game), however Westbrook is caught between a rock and a hard place with his starting lineup. Yes he most definitely needs to balance when to shoot/pass better, but he also plays with the worst shooting shooting-guard in the league. It's harder for him to balance when to look for his shot and score and when to get his teammates going, when they can't hit their shots at a regular rate. Westbrook is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't for the large part. We saw all throughout the first round, Westbrook collapsing the defense and kicking it out to a wide-open Roberson who would either throw up a brick or he'd be hesistant to shoot - forcing an errant pass to a teammate because he didn't want to shoot the ball. Wall has the luxury of being able to take a beat seat and spoonfeed players like Otto or let players like Beal cook on their own because they have legitimate scoring skillsets. I mean shyt Beal didn't average 23 ppg on high shooting percentages this season for nothing.

If Wall had to play with Roberson as his backcourt partner, no matter how much spoonfeeding would ever put Roberson in the same frame as Beal as a scorer. Wall would then have the conundrum of working out when to stop passing to Roberson and looking to score -- even if he was heavily guarded and Roberson was open. It's a lot easier to make decisions as a ball-handler to get guys involved when you know you can rely on them.

I understand the Roberson stuff, but you can't tell me that Wall wouldn't be eating twice as hard throwing passes to Adams, Gibson, and Kanter compared to Gortat and Morris. Yeah, Roberson is a bum and shouldn't play - but its on the coach that Westbrook is forced to set up Roberson instead of McDermott.

I also don't think Oladipo is as bad as he is. He's obviously not some all-star on the come up, but he's nowhere near as bad as he's looked for OKC this year either. He can do some things off the dribble, he can move offball pretty decently, he can get hot from time to time. He's also young enough to be severely hampered by not being engaged in the game in a way that's natural for him. That's on Westbrook.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

If Wall was on the Thunder, he wouldn't have to play with Roberson as his backcourt partner because he'd actually be trying on defense.

You obviously didn't watch Wall on the defensive end this season.

Beal and Otto took the main defensive reps on the best opposing guards/wings. And that's not to shyt on Wall, because he can be a good defender in spurts, but it's not realistic for him to do all the shyt he does on offense as well as guarding the best guard and be effective on a nightly basis, throughout the marathon of a season. Not only does Wall not have that type of energy, but he also has trouble with distributing his energy throughout a game. Not to mention, it would be impractical for him to have those type of defensive reps when it increases the probability of him getting into foul trouble. As a coach you do not put your offensive breadwinner in that situation.

If Wall was on the Thunder, Roberson would most definitely be the starting SG.

The Thunder could have rolled out lineups like Wall-Oladipo-McDermott-Gibson-Adams or Wall-Abrines-Oladipo-Kanter-Adams a lot more often, and had Wall feeding guys all over the courti

The problem with this is, it's not practical against a team like the Rockets. You'd be trading 3s with a team that had better and more consistent shooters, all the while asking Oladipo, McDermott and Abrines to defend the Rockets' shooters. A recipe for disaster.

The problem with the Thunder's roster is they have too many one-way players. Wall in place of Westbrook isn't gonna shift the needle like that.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I understand the Roberson stuff, but you can't tell me that Wall wouldn't be eating twice as hard throwing passes to Adams, Gibson, and Kanter compared to Gortat and Morris.

The problem with this is, Gortat is a better offensive player than both Gibson and Adams, and Morris stretches the floor more than Adams/Gibson/Kanter do. Not to mention Kanter can be a defensive liability, which is why he only gets limited minutes. Even if it could be argued that Adams/Gibson/Kanter are collectively better, it still doesn't changed the fact that Wall would be operating in a confined space with a lack of perimeter shooters/scorers. Wall's entire game works around being able to find shooters and spacing, his own scoring game works off that. At his core he's a pass first, score second PG. If he doesn't have reliable options to pass to, he'd be forced to change his game/approach and force his shot more while dealing with more defensive attention.

I also don't think Oladipo is as bad as he is. He's obviously not some all-star on the come up, but he's nowhere near as bad as he's looked for OKC this year either. He can do some things off the dribble, he can move offball pretty decently, he can get hot from time to time. He's also young enough to be severely hampered by not being engaged in the game in a way that's natural for him. That's on Westbrook.

Oladipo is an inconsistent player who needs the ball in his hands to develop rhythm/be effective, who should've ideally been coming off the bench and/or have his minutes adjusted to when Westbrook was off the court. But it never eventuated, because of the lack of wings the Thunder had throughout the season to fill the void. Oladipo isn't an Otto-type player who can provide reliable spot-up shooting, and he isn't a Beal-type player who can provide reliable spot-up shooting and the ability to create his own shot on the regular. He wouldn't have had Oladipo play noticeably better than he did this season, because Wall himself needs the ball in his hands to be effective. You'd basically have Wall/Roberson/Oladipo together trying to provide perimeter shooting/scoring, with two players who aren't particularly effective without the ball and one player who isn't effective with or without the ball, and that's never gonna cut it in today's league.

Like I said above, the fundamental problem is that the Thunder's roster just has too many players that were only effective (some limited at that) on one side of the floor and no players outside of Westbrook who were reliable/talented enough on the offensive end.

 

[KillerB88]

But bro he played the same with KD imo he just has terrible shot selection