What's with the double standard re: the Black Middle Class?

[⠀X ⠀]

This comes from aligning blackness with poverty/struggle.

I can't really agree with the bolded but the rest is facts.

yeah, I'm just going by the definition that economists use. To be really middle class, you have to have some amount of wealth. Not even a whole lot, but you can't be living paycheck to paycheck, talking about you're middle class.

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What is the Difference Between Working Class vs. Middle Class?

What Is Working Class?

That example is part of the reason for the term "working class."


As with middle class, there are two contexts to the term working class. The first is what Gallup has referred to as "subjective social class." This is the historic and cultural context of the working class, and it refers to people who do manual labor for a living. This can mean anyone in a job like a janitor, plumber or beat cop walking the street.


If someone would be considered blue collar, if they don't sit in an office or work mostly at a computer, if they can wear jeans and a t-shirt instead of a suit and tie into work, they are probably part of the traditional working class. (Of all places, Cliffs Notes probably has the best expanded definition of this social status.)


This definition of working class has generally fallen out of favor. In part this is because it was historically seen as an insult. To be working class was to be crude and have lower status than a white collar worker. This is both an inappropriate way to discuss anyone and, frankly, inaccurate in a cultural landscape that has come to highly value blue collar jobs.


Instead, for those of us in economic policy, "working class" has come to fill in the bottom section of middle class. As Gallup's Frank Newport describes it, it is a "socioeconomic positioning that is below that of what is associated with the middle class but above that which is associated with the lower class."


For current use, this is almost exactly right. Millions of Americans fall into the lower-middle zone we discussed above. They make more than the poverty line, and may even technically make enough to be earn a middle class by income, but they still live paycheck to paycheck. Working class today describes having a job but feeling poor, or making enough to get by without much else. This is not a description of poverty or unemployment, but neither is it the description of comfort.


Working class used to be about the kind of job you had. Today it's more a description of economic uncertainty. People in the working class work and know that they have to keep working in a way that the middle class never will.


That's what economists mean by working class, and that's the difference.

 

[UncleTomFord15]

park slope still majority black and latino?

The majority of people I see there are white

 

[IsThatBrothaMouzone?]

The only real difference between black middle class and white middle class is home ownership. Whites tend to live in neighborhoods that lots of other people want to live in, which inflates property values. Most middle class white people have little wealth outside of their house. The reason they were able to buy the house is a combo of the GI Bill helping their parents/grandparents, giving them nest eggs to pass down to their kids........which is used to wipe out debt, put down payments on other homes etc.

Blacks never got that little (big) stimulus package so we're playing a very similar game but without that jump-start.


For me, I grew up in Dallas with a single mother making just enough to NOT qualify for food stamps or welfare but not enough to really have much left over. We lived in an apartment with no car and had to ride DART everywhere. Waiting on the 583 bus, realizing it's not going to show up and then having to carry $60 worth of groceries home in 100 degree heat is no joke. Working class to the bone.

Now, I make about $80k and my lady makes $55k. Both of us are in different spot than our peers because neither of us have parents that can give us anything financially. We've loaned money more than anything but it hasn't been that bad. What they didn't give financially, they made up for by raising us right. Credit scores are pretty good (750+) but we want to keep working on our situation.

 

[King P]

yeah, I'm just going by the definition that economists use. To be really middle class, you have to have some amount of wealth. Not even a whole lot, but you can't be living paycheck to paycheck, talking about you're middle class.

This quoted example actually hit the nail on the head right here about the so called "middle class"

By measure of median income, someone making $41,554 is a member of Boston's middle class. Yet this person will have $33,124 left over after taxes and will spend $25,824 of that just on rent for a one bedroom apartment. Is it really the middle class if you have $600 to live on per month?

 

[IsThatBrothaMouzone?]

Personal definition:

Working Class - you're gonna be strapped for cash no matter how frugal you are. Being good with money allows you to survive and keep your head above water but you simply don't make enough to go beyond that.

Middle Class - you have enough money to be comfortable but your long-term prospects are dependent on how you manage money. You can skip multiple paychecks but it would require you to drain your savings and use your credit cards. This is the kind of person that could be set for life with a little cash infusion.

Upper Middle Class - you can buy nice homes, cars etc., and still have enough money to save and invest. Getting in financial trouble requires a lot more effort in this zone unless you needed to take on heavy student debt to get here. A lot of STEM people and even some tradesman are in this class. Plenty of disposable income for vacation trips, saving money and eating out. Probably only run up your credit card when paying for a vacation and then pay it off almost immediately.

Rich - a very lucrative profession. You don't really have to work once you've hit a certain point and can retire at a relatively early age as long as you don't make crazy/dumb life decisions. You basically live a very similar existence to the Upper Middle Class person but with nicer toys. Instead of the Lexus RX 350 or Tesla 3, you might spring for a Mercedes S63, BMW 5-series up to an Audi R8 or a McLaren 570.

Wealthy - your money makes money and you can afford to employ rich people. This is the kind of person that can buy a private jet, yacht etc., and not even hesitate. Upper middle class & Rich people show off by going on fancy trips or purchasing exotic rides. The wealthy show off by purchasing politicians, an NFL team or a TV network.

 

[BaldingSoHard]

Personal definition:

Working Class - you're gonna be strapped for cash no matter how frugal you are. Being good with money allows you to survive and keep your head above water but you simply don't make enough to go beyond that.

Middle Class - you have enough money to be comfortable but your long-term prospects are dependent on how you manage money. You can skip multiple paychecks but it would require you to drain your savings and use your credit cards. This is the kind of person that could be set for life with a little cash infusion.

Upper Middle Class - you can buy nice homes, cars etc., and still have enough money to save and invest. Getting in financial trouble requires a lot more effort in this zone unless you needed to take on heavy student debt to get here. A lot of STEM people and even some tradesman are in this class. Plenty of disposable income for vacation trips, saving money and eating out. Probably only run up your credit card when paying for a vacation and then pay it off almost immediately.

Rich - a very lucrative profession. You don't really have to work once you've hit a certain point and can retire at a relatively early age as long as you don't make crazy/dumb life decisions. You basically live a very similar existence to the Upper Middle Class person but with nicer toys. Instead of the Lexus RX 350 or Tesla 3, you might spring for a Mercedes S63, BMW 5-series up to an Audi R8 or a McLaren 570.

Wealthy - your money makes money and you can afford to employ rich people. This is the kind of person that can buy a private jet, yacht etc., and not even hesitate. Upper middle class & Rich people show off by going on fancy trips or purchasing exotic rides. The wealthy show off by purchasing politicians, an NFL team or a TV network.

I agree 100% with these definitions.

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

Personal definition:

Working Class - you're gonna be strapped for cash no matter how frugal you are. Being good with money allows you to survive and keep your head above water but you simply don't make enough to go beyond that.

Middle Class - you have enough money to be comfortable but your long-term prospects are dependent on how you manage money. You can skip multiple paychecks but it would require you to drain your savings and use your credit cards. This is the kind of person that could be set for life with a little cash infusion.

Upper Middle Class - you can buy nice homes, cars etc., and still have enough money to save and invest. Getting in financial trouble requires a lot more effort in this zone unless you needed to take on heavy student debt to get here. A lot of STEM people and even some tradesman are in this class. Plenty of disposable income for vacation trips, saving money and eating out. Probably only run up your credit card when paying for a vacation and then pay it off almost immediately.

Rich - a very lucrative profession. You don't really have to work once you've hit a certain point and can retire at a relatively early age as long as you don't make crazy/dumb life decisions. You basically live a very similar existence to the Upper Middle Class person but with nicer toys. Instead of the Lexus RX 350 or Tesla 3, you might spring for a Mercedes S63, BMW 5-series up to an Audi R8 or a McLaren 570.

Wealthy - your money makes money and you can afford to employ rich people. This is the kind of person that can buy a private jet, yacht etc., and not even hesitate. Upper middle class & Rich people show off by going on fancy trips or purchasing exotic rides. The wealthy show off by purchasing politicians, an NFL team or a TV network.

By these definitions, I’m upper middle class. I don’t consider myself upper middle class in any shape or form tho Iol

 

[BigMan]

By these definitions, I’m upper middle class. I don’t consider myself upper middle class in any shape or form tho Iol

keep in mind black upper middle class is different than upper middle class
i'm also upper middle class but my life was different than my non black peers

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

keep in mind black upper middle class is different than upper middle class
i'm also upper middle class but my life was different than my non black peers

Breh’s post didn’t mention a “black” in front of his definitions.


I don’t see the point in a different definition for black folk. Seems it would only give a false sense of progress. Our distribution would just be different across the different classes.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

Personal definition:

Working Class - you're gonna be strapped for cash no matter how frugal you are. Being good with money allows you to survive and keep your head above water but you simply don't make enough to go beyond that.

Middle Class - you have enough money to be comfortable but your long-term prospects are dependent on how you manage money. You can skip multiple paychecks but it would require you to drain your savings and use your credit cards. This is the kind of person that could be set for life with a little cash infusion.

Upper Middle Class - you can buy nice homes, cars etc., and still have enough money to save and invest. Getting in financial trouble requires a lot more effort in this zone unless you needed to take on heavy student debt to get here. A lot of STEM people and even some tradesman are in this class. Plenty of disposable income for vacation trips, saving money and eating out. Probably only run up your credit card when paying for a vacation and then pay it off almost immediately.

Rich - a very lucrative profession. You don't really have to work once you've hit a certain point and can retire at a relatively early age as long as you don't make crazy/dumb life decisions. You basically live a very similar existence to the Upper Middle Class person but with nicer toys. Instead of the Lexus RX 350 or Tesla 3, you might spring for a Mercedes S63, BMW 5-series up to an Audi R8 or a McLaren 570.

Wealthy - your money makes money and you can afford to employ rich people. This is the kind of person that can buy a private jet, yacht etc., and not even hesitate. Upper middle class & Rich people show off by going on fancy trips or purchasing exotic rides. The wealthy show off by purchasing politicians, an NFL team or a TV network.

I mostly agree. Something seems slightly off. But they're good definitions though.

 

[Scott Larock]

Black "middle class" is kind of a misnomer and has certain people thinking they are wealthier than they really are.

Most black folks IMO are "working class" middle income and are one or two paychecks from being back in "the hood".

IMO the so called "middle-class" or "upper middle-class" blacks are a problem in that they believe and promote a lot of bootstrapping ideas while having no idea of the true state of black wealth.

These wealth reports and articles coming out showing how black folks are sliding from middle class to poor should be a wake up call for us as a group. We really don't have the luxury of having economic and class divisions.

The problem with the black middle class is that they do feel they're above others based on maintaining certain things like a house or car, the real issue with the bmc is regardless of social status or income they're still trapped as black and still trapped inside the black community since their class doesn't elevate them outside the black community.

ADOS is really an example of the working class or working poor class fighting back against the black middle and upper class. Really is a class situation more than anything else and the upper black middle class really aligns with socially liberal but more conservative policies than the working poor who will more likely vent against the system. The black middle class is primarily used as a anchor to calm the working poor down but we're getting to a point where that's not working so much anymore.

It's really the lack of social mobility the black middle class has even with their achievements that hurt them + white people using them to calm down those below them.

It's a feel good situation that's really a couple paychecks away from the working poor.

I know tons of people who bought homes in the mid 2000's and they lost them alredy, the seperation and labeling by race is really gonna have to stop one day since it's kinda a false sense or reality.

 

[JackRoss]

Is there a stigma that ignorance = Black in some circles? Yes. To deny that is intellectual dishonesty. However, people need to stop talking to stupid ass, dusty ass nikkas and using their opinions as the thoughts of all us African Americans.

A lot you nikkas get criticized because you ain’t never watched an episode of Martin and don’t know what Oochie Wally is. You grew up watching friends and listening to Bruce Springsteen cuz you had corny ass c00n parents who tried to remove you from everything Black.

You are by all intents and purposes a Black Anglo Saxon and so when you go around people that are culturally African American/ADOS they like:

And then

Cuz you walk, talking, and acting like the oppressor. Instead of being salty go watch I’m Gonna Git You Sucka....and no I didn’t spell it wrong.

Well gatdamn

 

[WesCrook]

I know its TLR but...middle class brehs get all the smoke.

If you say "we was middle class but we was still broke growing up" nikkas accuse you of lying and trying to be hood.

If you say "we was middle class so we didn't have those issues" nikkas call you bougie/siddity/soft

If you say:

To add on...

This idea that middle class people can't handle adversity and/or lack the ability to "reach down deep" to get out of tough situation is exaggerated af.

 

[RTF]

Income isn’t the same as class. You need a familial and social structure to be the same.

In US money I earn $95k. That’s a lot of money in London and a lot of money most places.


But I’m starting from 0. In fact I’m starting from -10 because I pay my mothers rent because she is currently unable to pay for it all. I’m the ‘richest’ person in my immediate family. I pay a lot of money towards my brother and sister.

My primary social group is similar. Middle to mid-high earning professionals who earn the most money in their immediate family or their sibling does. So we are ok but few of us are able to take 5 years out to explore a passion piece. And we all grew up in the hood. Few of us have taken up Golf and a few other middle clas and upper middle class hobbies but in the majority we listen to rap music, watch soccer (working class sport in England), boxing that type of stuff.

The white middle class is often entrenched. I have a few friends from genuine middle class families that are black and their lives are a bit different. They are more ‘free’. But I’m England there’s no black middle class. So those folks grew up around white people.

I understand there’s a genuine black middle class IN the USA which fascinated me. Are the black American middle class grouped together in neighbourhoods? How is it the same and different to white middle class areas? Or is the middle class small and those people tend to grow up around cacs?

I’ve read that black middle class or just prosperous black Americans tend to slide back to working class at much higher rates than others. I wonder what the cause is outside of racism. Or the levers of racism in this instance.

 

[RTF]

Btw if you’re middle class and but filled with debt then I do not consider you middle class because you are virtually poor since all your money is going back to what you owe.

classes should be determined by how little debt you have combined with the money you make

Nah class is mostly hereditary.

Middle classes are often saddled with debt and that’s fine. Because they pay the interest and capital and it keeps ticking on.

You can be middle income but that doesn’t make you middle class as such.