What's Your Music Theory Game Hittin' For?

Aje

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i remember watching a video of dj toomp trying to flip a sample...it was garbage...then he pulled out the keyboard and started playing and it was like :gladbron: :krs: :stylin:

it seems like its always one or the other...why cant most producers switch back and forth? talent is talent, right?
ha, that's funny. there are few producers that can do both effectively or at a high level. I mean, Dre has a dope sample game. I mean, it's loops, really, he don't chop, but the G-Funk and prior sh*t was on point. Then, once he left Death Row, he switched up and incorporated a lot more non-sample material. He had that joint on Nas' 'It Was Written' then did the 'Phone Tap' beat (yes, I know it was ghost produced by Glove or whatever). And, then he got some hired guns like Storch to help. So, I know Dre's critics will say he has a lot of hired guns to "help" him, but the beats are still dope.

Timbaland, also, can sample and do non-sampled beats well, but, again, he has the same criticisms as Dre: with Danja helping him in the middle of 2000s, he was killing it with Timberlake, Nelly Furtado, and all them joints.

So, I'm not sure who you'd place as the best producer that mastered both sample/non-sample styles.
 

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ha, that's funny. there are few producers that can do both effectively or at a high level. I mean, Dre has a dope sample game. I mean, it's loops, really, he don't chop, but the G-Funk and prior sh*t was on point. Then, once he left Death Row, he switched up and incorporated a lot more non-sample material. He had that joint on Nas' 'It Was Written' then did the 'Phone Tap' beat (yes, I know it was ghost produced by Glove or whatever). And, then he got some hired guns like Storch to help. So, I know Dre's critics will say he has a lot of hired guns to "help" him, but the beats are still dope.

Timbaland, also, can sample and do non-sampled beats well, but, again, he has the same criticisms as Dre: with Danja helping him in the middle of 2000s, he was killing it with Timberlake, Nelly Furtado, and all them joints.

So, I'm not sure who you'd place as the best producer that mastered both sample/non-sample styles.
well, yeah ... if they're not playing the keys how much credit can you really give them?

thats like somebody saying 'man i really like polo's new f/w collection ... ralph lauren is a genius..." when you know he didn't design it ... he maaaaayyyybe put the finishing touches on it ... tweaked some stuff here and there ... you see what im getting at...
 

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i remember watching a video of dj toomp trying to flip a sample...it was garbage...then he pulled out the keyboard and started playing and it was like :gladbron: :krs: :stylin:

it seems like its always one or the other...why cant most producers switch back and forth? talent is talent, right?

IMO sampling and from scratch producing are two very different things, especially for a producer like RZA. First, RZA is my favorite sampling producer all time. If you study his style, and study the art of sampling, RZA's style was equal parts groove, texture and tone, awkward looping (like the 1 bar and 2 bar loops), and one shot sound hits. Also RZA was one of the best at combining several samples from totally different pieces of music into one beat. It's basically impossible for him to translate that style into from scratch productions, there's no way to capture the mix of texture and tones, and the way his switch ups hit you, with non sampled sources, unless he went thru tons of unique processing of every sound.

To really understand it, you gotta keep in mind that sampling was started by DJ's who started looping breaks at the beginning of hip hop. So the mentality of a sampler is really evolved from the thinking from a DJ's perspective, not a composers standpoint. It's two totally different perspectives of music if you really think about it, comparing how a DJ approaches music (taking records that already exist, blending them, tempo matching them, mood matching them, etc) vs a composer (working with individual instruments on a note by note basis, etc). So even though it seems like talent is talent, it's really two totally different ways of thinking about music. The truly great sample based producers, like J Dilla, Q-tip, premier, RZA, etc... Have some very unique talents that don't necessarily translate to original production.
 

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IMO sampling and from scratch producing are two very different things, especially for a producer like RZA. First, RZA is my favorite sampling producer all time. If you study his style, and study the art of sampling, RZA's style was equal parts groove, texture and tone, awkward looping (like the 1 bar and 2 bar loops), and one shot sound hits. Also RZA was one of the best at combining several samples from totally different pieces of music into one beat. It's basically impossible for him to translate that style into from scratch productions, there's no way to capture the mix of texture and tones, and the way his switch ups hit you, with non sampled sources, unless he went thru tons of unique processing of every sound.

To really understand it, you gotta keep in mind that sampling was started by DJ's who started looping breaks at the beginning of hip hop. So the mentality of a sampler is really evolved from the thinking from a DJ's perspective, not a composers standpoint. It's two totally different perspectives of music if you really think about it, comparing how a DJ approaches music (taking records that already exist, blending them, tempo matching them, mood matching them, etc) vs a composer (working with individual instruments on a note by note basis, etc). So even though it seems like talent is talent, it's really two totally different ways of thinking about music. The truly great sample based producers, like J Dilla, Q-tip, premier, RZA, etc... Have some very unique talents that don't necessarily translate to original production.
well said, my man :obama:
 

Young/Nacho\Drawz

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Why Music Theory is Neither Beneficial or Detrimental
I read tommaso.zillio's article titled "6 Things Most Guitar Players Don't Understand About Music Theory" just moments ago and whilst I felt there were some extremely valid points made within its content, I also felt the article was rather one sided and needing a more open mindset. Bare in mind that I am not writing this to disprove Tommaso, only to provide further insight into the subject. Both views are neither right nor wrong at the end of the day and are just opinion. I am a 23 year old guitarist who has been playing and composing since I was 14/15. I have studied guitar in many ways such as, by myself, private tuition, and at academies. Despite all of this though, I have never learnt theory past learning different modes. I have had the chance to learn more but I didn't feel it interested me enough to do so and I also feel it isn't needed for my aspirations as a musician.

Do I Need To Know Theory To Write/Learn Music?
NEVER have I even thought of using music theory to write a song or learn a song I am hearing. Unless you count knowing how to play a chord, I simply just listen to whatever is in my head or is coming out the speakers and simply figure it out. After doing this for many years I often find myself knowing what note is being played before I even touch my guitar. Practice makes perfect and if you play your guitar long enough with focus you can do the same. Referring back to Tommaso's article: "We musicians need to know theory as writers need to know grammar." There have been many illiterate people who have had a knack with words yet have no idea how to write them down. Cockney talk is a poetic artform for some and highly entertaining, ever wondered why when you think of a Cockney Geezer it is an image of a homeless person you envisage? The same goes for music. Jimi Hendrix might have known music theory but can you say the many artists in the Punk Movement knew music theory also? Some did, but the general idea of playing Punk music is that anyone could do it. You simply just needed to pick an instrument up and play. Check out Siouxsie and The Banshees first ever gig at the 100 club. This leads me to my next sub-heading..

Does Music Theory Affect Your Taste In Music?
This can never be answered factually. My opinion on the matter is that the more knowledge you have in an artform, the higher chance your tastes in said artform are different from that of someone who has less knowledge. My brother is a film buff (Aspiring script writer). As kids we used to watch the same films mainly with slight differences in our taste. As years went by however and my brother studied films through various courses, his taste of films completely changed from liking most mainstream films to disliking them and liking obscure films that half of the time I feel are completely horrendous (although some are pretty cool). I noticed the same type of behavior change whilst studying music at academies. The course began with most of us at pretty much the same level of knowledge. Our tastes in music were slightly diverse but mainly within what some would consider mainstream styles of music. As the course went on and I felt disinterested in the theoretical aspects of the lessons, my peers' music tastes changed drastically from when they started and they began to even dislike what they used to like and have a new loving for more virtuoso styles of music. Mainly guitar virtuoso's like Jazz players, complex metal players etc. Outside of my class you could tell what the members of bands current year/term of study was simply by the choice of style of the band. This leads me onto my next part...

Does Knowing More Theory Affect Your Compositions?
It is my belief that for most it does. Whilst someone could say that just because they know complex theory, doesn't mean they have to use it, if we go look at my above statements about changes in taste, this could have a drastic affect on what a musician writes. When writing a song, a composer can come up with ideas they think are good, and some that are bad and want to burn. How does a musician decide though which are good and which are bad? Is it because they like it or dislike it in a similar way they like or dislike different songs of music? I reckon so. If you look at famous artists in history. Frank Zappa, you could easily say he has a good knowledge of music theory. His compositions are highly virtuoso. Now take a look at Kurt Cobain. Do you really think the rebellious high-school dropout had a huge knowledge of music theory? His songs weren't very virtuoso at all. Both composers are highly noted in the industry as successes. This leads me to my next point...

Is Music Theory Needed In Order To Be Successful In The Industry?
It all depends on what you feel is successful and what part of the industry you wish to work in. If you want to be a highly sought after session musician then you will most likely need a solid amount of music theory. If however you want to be in a famous Punk Band then you don't need to really focus on it at all. You are a unique individual with your own taste, ambitions, and inspirations. Decide your own future. Only you know what you want to do and if you find Music Theory uninteresting and hard to learn, its most probably because you don't want to learn it and have a different taste, ambition, and inspirations from someone who does find it interesting and does want to learn it. Don't let academics tell you that you are wrong and will fail for not knowing it because it is simply untrue and there is huge evidence against it. I hope you have enjoyed this exploration of a different point of view. I am certain there will be a lot of you who disagree entirely with what I have said and I welcome it. It's good to hear views from all over the spectrum to get a clearer view as a whole over things.

Source
 
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I dont think a very deep understanding of music theory is necessary, basic level stuff is sufficient.

Study the game, how your favorite producer layers his beats, try to emulate it and master it then turn it into your own shyt.

Also study mixing techniques (something I need to get more heavy into).
Truth being spoken...

(1) Don't waste time learning music theory...Invest your time learning how to mix and master...

(2) Go on Youtube and learn...Download FLP files and see how things are done...

I wasted 13 years focusing on music theory...

I should have been focusing more on automation, filters and other processing techniques, that's what really make beats sound good...

Your basic I-IV-V chord progression will go a long way if you know how to use your DAW like an expert...
 

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A composer who eschews music theory is like a scientist trying to side step math.
 

ryshy

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i need to learn this shyt anyone have links or something where i could learn it
 
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I honestly think that if you want to achieve a beat with a drum machine then you need to know rhythm patterns and time signatures.
Does anyone know how to write out rhythm patterns using syllables to help you achieve a drum pattern?
Music theory is beneficial for drum machines and mpc pads
 

Aje

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I honestly think that if you want to achieve a beat with a drum machine then you need to know rhythm patterns and time signatures.
Does anyone know how to write out rhythm patterns using syllables to help you achieve a drum pattern?
Music theory is beneficial for drum machines and mpc pads
from my understanding - and if memory serves - notating percussion is simply done on a clef where the different notes represent different drums. I took a percussion ensemble course for a year, but, seriously, only rocked on the drum set trying to reproduce John Bonham riffs because my instructor was a huge Zeppelin fan. :laugh:

Percussion notation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

DJ Mart-Kos

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I had music theory for a while. I have forgotten most of it by now.
To me it's not necessary to know theory if you're using a DAW but it does help a lot.

I always make a Scale by using Ghost Channels in FL Studio.
Just put all the notes that are in the scale on all octaves and you'll see what notes you can use for your song in the Piano Roll.
 
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from my understanding - and if memory serves - notating percussion is simply done on a clef where the different notes represent different drums. I took a percussion ensemble course for a year, but, seriously, only rocked on the drum set trying to reproduce John Bonham riffs because my instructor was a huge Zeppelin fan. :laugh:

Percussion notation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm talking about using syllables to represent the counting pattern that can be,
1 and 2 and
3 and 4 and

Knowing how to phonetically count with syllables and not numbers helps to write out those patterns
 
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I had music theory for a while. I have forgotten most of it by now.
To me it's not necessary to know theory if you're using a DAW but it does help a lot.

I always make a Scale by using Ghost Channels in FL Studio.
Just put all the notes that are in the scale on all octaves and you'll see what notes you can use for your song in the Piano Roll.

Do you know the circle of 5ths to figure out your scales?
 
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