"When God was dead for 3 days and 3 nights who was controlling the Universe?" - Ahmed Deedat

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Most likely.

Obvious this is all speculation but if you look at our world and think about how we create simulated worlds in our reality we typically create worlds based on the same physics as the world we inhabit. And we try to conserve computing power with short cuts. For example, one of the simplest things you see in every video game we make is that the computer only renders the part of the environment where your character is. So if you are outside of a building, the computer will only render the outside. It won't waste computing power trying to render the inside of the building until your character walks in.

We see this same phenomenon in our world when we look at quantum mechanics. Physics experiments like the Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser Experiment essentially confirm that our reality behaves differently based on whether we are consciously observing or we're not. Essentially when we are not looking our reality doesn't exist. But when we look it comes into existence. No different than the mechanics we currently use in our own video games. Regardless of how much our technology advances, there will always be limitations because its impossible to simulate every particle in the universe at all times unless you have a computer larger than the universe. That's why even a super advanced civilization that can create simulations as realistic as our world will have to take the sort of short cuts we use right now in our own video games.

There are a lot of holes in what you said. And some of the things you said don't apply or are straight out incorrect.

1. You have no idea what kind of computer they might be using and if anything it is most unlikely that they are using ours. Von Neumann architecture is primitive and too limited for many of the things we want to do today much-less in the future. What you wrote suggests that when we improve Quantum Computing or realize a meta-Turing model we will have more computing power than our "simulators".
Hypercomputation - Wikipedia

2. You are making assumptions about how the quantum mechanical results should be interpreted. The many worlds interpretation means that everything happens rather than nothing happens until waveform collapse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

3. As for rendering. Rendering is visual not existential so they are not really analagous. The model is where the simulated world "exists" not in the rendering. Remember: Model + View + Controller. You are viewing this with the eyes of a player not with the insight of the program writers.
Rendering is not a sign of whether something exists or not.

4. Your statement about "no matter how much technology advances" is incorrect. You do not need to enumerate all Integers for any single Integer to be enumerated. Likewise in a deterministic system (incl. a mathematical one) you do not need to enumerate all states to be able to get to any individual state.
Statement "Regardless of how much our technology advances, there will always be limitations because its impossible to simulate every particle in the universe at all times unless you have a computer larger than the universe." is in a youtube video but that video is incorrect. Our (simulated) Universe has a speed limit. If you remove that speed limit from any encompassing system (i.e. they move faster) the "infinity can't be simulated" argument falls apart. Also our Universe is digital and theirs might not be.
 

JOHN.KOOL

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You had no proof and you have no proof. It is not even debatable that the Egyptian society far predated Israel. The Bible itself even mentioned that children of Israel went into Egypt. Again I want to know why do people have to suspend common sense in order to believe the stuff pushed by organized religions?

The children of Israel going into Egypt is NOT proof that the hymn of aten predated the psalm. I'm not talking about which particular society predated the other, I'm talking about two particular writings.

Secondly as there is the father, the son and the holy spirit, there is Satan, the anti Christ and the false prophet. Just like Jesus Christ is he that was, is and is to come, the anti-christ is he that was, is not and yet shall be. Do you see the pattern here of the imitation of the word? Seeing as the scripture states that all other Gods worship are demons in disguise and fallen angels that men worship, would it really be a surprise to see an imitation of the word and scripture there too?
 

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How do you know the characters in Grand Theft Auto that you run over with a car when evading the police aren't suffering?
I answered your question. You just don't like the answer. Our creators are not good or evil. They are probably similar to us. And just like you don't feel too bad about what happens in Grand Theft Auto, they probably don't feel too bad about what happens in our simulation.

You equated violence in a game to suffering. Firstly they are not the same thing strictly speaking, even in the real world.

Secondly, If you don't program suffering into the system it will not be there.

I am a programmer.

How long have you been programming? What do you know about coding models? Which languages do you use?
 
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3, Elohim is plural.
Every name of G-d with the exception of one (yud-kei-vav-kei), is a description of G-d. The plural essence in 'Elokim' simply represents G-d's role as the Source of all powers - the sun, the wind, the plants, the animals, the water, and so on; they all go back to Elokim. That is why the Torah uses 'Elokim' and not yud-kei-vav-kei when speaking of Creation. You will notice that the ONLY name used for G-d in Chapter 1 of Genesis (Creation), is 'Elokim', and this is to show that behind all the powers in the world, there is G-d. One G-d; the Source of all. The word 'Elohim' can indeed denote many things (angels, dieties, judges, etc.), but when it comes to G-d, it is used in reference to One G-d; Hashem.


In Hebrew, an 'im' or ים suffix does not necessarily mean the word is plural; it is the verb which indicates plurality (or lack thereof).

And in the Torah, all the verbs associated with the word 'Elokim' or אלהים clearly show it is singular; One G-d.

ברא אלהים Bara Elokim (G-d created), ויאמר אלהים Va'yomer Elokim (G-d said), etc.

It does NOT use the plural forms: ברו אלהים Baru Elokim (gods created), ויאמרו אלהים Va'yomru Elokim (gods said), etc.

The verbs are singular, denoting singularity of the noun 'Elokim'.
 

ThaRealness

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God takes many days off and has his angels sub in.

He's actually only controlling the universe, like 2 days of the week. Its like how Kanye produces 2 tracks but gets credit for the whole album
 

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I can't tell if this thread is full of trolls or just naive folk with nothing better to do in their time. But I do know that when I clearly don't understand something, my first response is to try to learn more about it, not to shout, "You must be wrong because I don't understand you!" To ask a question like the one in the OP is to be so insanely ignorant of any aspect of Christian thought that it's hard for me to even know where to start with such a person.

This whole "is belief in the trinity really TRUE monotheism" debate has just been an ignorant way to troll Christianity from the beginning. Pre-Christian Jews didn't have any hangups with talking about God active in the world or existing in more than one form - God could be in the tabernacle, and in the high heavens with the angels, and still ruling over all creation as the same time. The insistence on God as one in being comes from a post-Christian reaction by the Jews. It isn't there in the early texts, which have no issue with God acting in many places and many forms at once.

N.T. Wright's writing on this is a basic stating place. Read this essay if you have the slightest interest in what it means for Jesus to be God and how that fits into the very Jewish context of Christianity.

Jesus and the Identity of God

Classic Jewish monotheism, then, believed that (a) there was one God, who created heaven and earth and who remained in close and dynamic relation with his creation; and that (b) this God had called Israel to be his special people. This twin belief, tested to the limit and beyond through Israel’s checkered career, was characteristically expressed through a particular narrative: the chosen people were also the rescued people, liberated from slavery in Egypt, marked out by the gift of Torah, established in their land, exiled because of disobedience, but promised a glorious return and final settlement. Jewish-style monotheism meant living in this story and trusting in this one true God, the God of creation and covenant, of Exodus and Return.

This God was utterly different from the pantheist’s “one god.” This is an important point to note: many, including many scholars, have blithely assumed that because Stoics and others talked about “one god” they were saying the same thing as the Jews. This God was also utterly different from the far-away ultra-transcendent gods of the Epicureans. Always active within his world, did he not feed the young ravens when they called upon him?[11]—he could be trusted to act more specifically on behalf of Israel. His eventual overthrow of pagan power at the political would be the revelation of his overthrow of the false gods of the nations. His vindication of his people, liberating them finally from all their oppressors, would also be the vindication of his own name and reputation. In justifying his people, he would himself be justified. In his righteousness, his covenant faithfulness, they would find their own.

This monotheism was never, in our period, an inner analysis of the being of the one God. It was always a way of saying, frequently at great risk: our God is the true God, and your gods are worthless idols. It was a way of holding on to hope. We can see the dynamic of this monotheism working its way out in the manifold crises of second-temple Judaism, with the Maccabees, Judas the Galilean, and above all the two wars of the late 60s and early 130s A.D. revealing how the creational and covenantal theology and worldview remained at work through the period and in different groups.

This God was both other than the world and continually active within it. The words “transcendent” and “immanent,” we should note, are pointers to this double belief, but do not clarify it much. Because this God is thus simultaneously other than his people and present with them, Jews of Jesus’ day had developed several ways of speaking about the activity of this God in which they attempted to hold together, because they dared not separate, these twin truths. Emboldened by deep-rooted traditions, they explored what appears to us a strange, swirling sense of a rhythm of mutual relations within the very being of the one God: a to-and-fro, a give-and-take, a command-and-obey, a sense of love poured out and love received. God’s Spirit broods over the waters, God’s Word goes forth to produce new life, God’s Law guides his people, God’s Presence or Glory dwells with them in fiery cloud, in tabernacle and temple. These four ways of speaking moved to and fro from metaphor to trembling reality-claim and back again. They enabled Jews to speak simultaneously of God’s sovereign supremacy and his intimate presence, of his unapproachable holiness and his self-giving compassionate love.

Best known of all is perhaps a fifth. God’s Wisdom is his handmaid in creation, the firstborn of his works, his chief of staff, his delight. God’s Wisdom is another way of talking about God present with his people in the checkered careers of the patriarchs and particularly in the events of the Exodus. Wisdom becomes closely aligned thereby with Torah and Shekinah.[12] Through the Lady Wisdom of Proverbs 1-8, the creator has fashioned everything, especially the human race. To embrace Wisdom is therefore to discover the secret of being truly human, of reflecting God’s image.[13]

I still find it extraordinary that nobody ever taught me all this when I was in seminary. The word “god” was a given, its meaning assumed, just at the moment when the word was going to explode in our faces. Nor can we look to Jewish scholars for help at this point, since they, by and large, have not been interested in the topic as such. So NT scholars have just assumed that, if first century Jews were monotheists, they could not in any way have anticipated trinitarian thinking. This I believe to be a huge category mistake at both ends. First, as systematic theologians would of course remind us at once, the point of trinitarian theology is precisely that it is monotheistic, not tri-theistic. Second, as I seem to be one of the only people, who keep on saying, first century Jewish monotheism was never in any case a numerical analysis of the being of the one God. Rather, as I have set out extremely briefly here, there were five ways (not to be confused with Aquinas’ five Ways!) in which second-Temple Jews could and did speak of the activity of the one God within the world, and particularly within Israel, without of course compromising their monotheism. I cannot stress too strongly that first century Judaism had at its heart what we can and must call several incarnational symbols, not least the Torah, but particularly the Temple. And, though this point has been routinely ignored by systematic theologians from the second century to the twentieth, it is precisely in terms of Torah and Temple that the earthly Jesus acted symbolically and spoke cryptically to define his mission and hint at his own self understanding.


If you're not willing to at least try and understand someone else's theology, then don't criticize it.
 

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So far as the Muslim stuff, that's even worse. I love my Muslim brothers but I have to be honest with you, Mohammed had a very confused view of Christianity (for instance, he believed that the Trinity was the Father, Mary, and the Son) and he was reacting to that confused partial view. Thus he developed a theology that incorporated large aspects of Christianity (even including Jesus and the Jewish prophets as prophets) but rejecting anything he couldn't understand.

The video in the OP, for instance, he shows a misunderstanding of Christianity almost immediately. He claims that Christians believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all "one person". That's false, as any theologian I've ever read would have been able to tell him. God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three different persons with the same nature, not three persons as the same person. That's basic theology 101. To get that basic thing wrong, right from the start, suggests to me that he's not an intellectually honest debater.
 

3:30

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i thought it was the literal sun disappearing for three days ,

winter solstice
 
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There are a lot of holes in what you said. And some of the things you said don't apply or are straight out incorrect.

1. You have no idea what kind of computer they might be using and if anything it is most unlikely that they are using ours. Von Neumann architecture is primitive and too limited for many of the things we want to do today much-less in the future. What you wrote suggests that when we improve Quantum Computing or realize a meta-Turing model we will have more computing power than our "simulators".
Hypercomputation - Wikipedia

2. You are making assumptions about how the quantum mechanical results should be interpreted. The many worlds interpretation means that everything happens rather than nothing happens until waveform collapse.
Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia

3. As for rendering. Rendering is visual not existential so they are not really analagous. The model is where the simulated world "exists" not in the rendering. Remember: Model + View + Controller. You are viewing this with the eyes of a player not with the insight of the program writers.
Rendering is not a sign of whether something exists or not.

4. Your statement about "no matter how much technology advances" is incorrect. You do not need to enumerate all Integers for any single Integer to be enumerated. Likewise in a deterministic system (incl. a mathematical one) you do not need to enumerate all states to be able to get to any individual state.
Statement "Regardless of how much our technology advances, there will always be limitations because its impossible to simulate every particle in the universe at all times unless you have a computer larger than the universe." is in a youtube video but that video is incorrect. Our (simulated) Universe has a speed limit. If you remove that speed limit from any encompassing system (i.e. they move faster) the "infinity can't be simulated" argument falls apart. Also our Universe is digital and theirs might not be.

Aight white boy. No need to prove you're smart. Keep shyt simple so common folks can understand. I try to dumb down my explanations so everyone can easily digest it.

Only thing I'll disagree with you is about the "many worlds interpretation" being an equally valid explanation for the phenomena we see in quantum mechanics.

Go read up on the "Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser experiment". It essentially blows away all interpretations to explain wave/particle duality other than the simulation hypothesis. That experiment confirms beyond any reasonable doubt that its our consciousness that actually drives reality.

Scientists don't talk about it as much as they should. Its a way bigger deal to me than the simple double slit experiment.
 
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So far as the Muslim stuff, that's even worse. I love my Muslim brothers but I have to be honest with you, Mohammed had a very confused view of Christianity (for instance, he believed that the Trinity was the Father, Mary, and the Son) and he was reacting to that confused partial view. Thus he developed a theology that incorporated large aspects of Christianity (even including Jesus and the Jewish prophets as prophets) but rejecting anything he couldn't understand.

The video in the OP, for instance, he shows a misunderstanding of Christianity almost immediately. He claims that Christians believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all "one person". That's false, as any theologian I've ever read would have been able to tell him. God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three different persons with the same nature, not three persons as the same person. That's basic theology 101. To get that basic thing wrong, right from the start, suggests to me that he's not an intellectually honest debater.
This is a Christian Myth. The verse of the Quran in question never claims Mary is a part of the trinity, it rather condemns Mariolatry which existed back then and still exists to this day.
 
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You equated violence in a game to suffering. Firstly they are not the same thing strictly speaking, even in the real world.

Secondly, If you don't program suffering into the system it will not be there.

I am a programmer.

How long have you been programming? What do you know about coding models? Which languages do you use?

:dahell: How many times do I have to repeat myself? Ok I'm gonna go over this one more time.

The creators of our simulation most likely created our simulation for the same reasons we humans create simulations in our reality. Right now we have supercomputers running all kinds of simulations researching all sorts of scientific questions. Our world could be an "ancestor simulation" as Nick Bostrom (the Oxford Professor who popularized the Simulation Hypothesis in recent years) would say. A simulation created by future humans as a means of studying their own evolution. Obviously if you are making simulations for research purposes they have to be as realistic as possible. Thus if suffering exists in the "real world" then it would also be in the "simulation".

Satisfied? Or are you still gonna make me repeat myself.
 

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So far as the Muslim stuff, that's even worse. I love my Muslim brothers but I have to be honest with you, Mohammed had a very confused view of Christianity (for instance, he believed that the Trinity was the Father, Mary, and the Son) and he was reacting to that confused partial view. Thus he developed a theology that incorporated large aspects of Christianity (even including Jesus and the Jewish prophets as prophets) but rejecting anything he couldn't understand.

The video in the OP, for instance, he shows a misunderstanding of Christianity almost immediately. He claims that Christians believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all "one person". That's false, as any theologian I've ever read would have been able to tell him. God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three different persons with the same nature, not three persons as the same person. That's basic theology 101. To get that basic thing wrong, right from the start, suggests to me that he's not an intellectually honest debater.

Muslims can’t even talk.

Muhammad’s personality does a 180 after he ran away to Medina.
:russ:
 
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