Whenever a song by that clique of bay area rappers came on Rap City it was channel switch on sight

Doomsday

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Where you getting your facts from?

Oakland crime is high by SFBA standards? No it's high by nationwide standards, and that how you it's very high because for a city to be in "well off" California and still have a higher crime rate than cities in tha mid west let's you know Oakland crime is high period

No it's not high. Last year was 60, that isn't high at all, especially for a population of 500,000.
Higher than cities in the mid west? Lol, what cities are these? Chicago? No. Detroit? Hell no. Gary? Nope. Flint? Nope. Saint Louis? Hell no.
Oakland crime is high compared to the rest of the SFBA, but in general it's low. It shouldn't be on the charts at all actually.
 

Doomsday

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The Bay perfected the art of the independent Rap hustle.

This is a myth. California, Texas, and NY have 99% of all record labels and California and NY control 90% of the media. You heard No Limit because of Priority/Universal. You heard Cash Money because of Universal. You heard E-40 the most because of Warner Bros. Mainstream media= mainstream money.

Artists are more independent now than they were back then. They also have more potential to be successful now than they were back than.

What DC/Baltimore nikkas do that?

Baltimore nikkas was really in the streets, living the live that rappers pretended to with major label money and media connects.

And GoGo helped blow Wale up and get him signed to MMG.
 

Biscayne

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This is a myth. California, Texas, and NY have 99% of all record labels and California and NY control 90% of the media. You heard No Limit because of Priority/Universal. You heard Cash Money because of Universal. You heard E-40 the most because of Warner Bros. Mainstream media= mainstream money.

Artists are more independent now than they were back then. They also have more potential to be successful now than they were back than.



Baltimore nikkas was really in the streets, living the live that rappers pretended to with major label money and media connects.

And GoGo helped blow Wale up and get him signed to MMG.
Those major labels didn't come til AFTER they built a buzz in certain regional markets. People in certain markets heard of them because of their independent grind. No Limit became a subsidiary Priority and Universal because of them forging relationships in other markets outside of their hometown of New Orleans. That's how it usually goes with Independents in The South and on The Westcoast. They forge these relationships before hitting the jackpot.
 

Biscayne

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No it's not high. Last year was 60, that isn't high at all, especially for a population of 500,000.
Higher than cities in the mid west? Lol, what cities are these? Chicago? No. Detroit? Hell no. Gary? Nope. Flint? Nope. Saint Louis? Hell no.
Oakland crime is high compared to the rest of the SFBA, but in general it's low. It shouldn't be on the charts at all actually.
It's not high anymore, but certain Oakland neighborhoods still have a murder rate higher than the national average. 60 murders isn't alot, but if you break it down by neighborhood, I'm sure it paints a bleaker picture. That's not to say you need pain and misery and violence to mold and create new innovative forms of Black expression, but obliging your argument, there are still neighborhoods in Oakland, SF, and Richmond where the Black-On-Black murder rate and poverty is just as bad as any other city in America.
 

Doomsday

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Those major labels didn't come til AFTER they built a buzz in certain regional markets. People in certain markets heard of them because of their independent grind. No Limit became a subsidiary Priority and Universal because of them forging relationships in other markets outside of their hometown of New Orleans. That's how it usually goes with Independents in The South and on The Westcoast. They forge these relationships before hitting the jackpot.

Back in the days you didn't have to have a major buzz in the streets like now before labels looked at you. Hip Hop was so new and fresh in the "hustler era" that anybody who had the money would get on. Jay Z didn't have a buzz and none of the labels liked him, but he put up his own money and Def Jam didn't turn it down. That's true independence because he got the ball rolling himself and payed for a label deal and never signed as an artist. A lot of these cats back then and now were never really independent. Most of E-40's success came after he took the deal. Cash Money didn't have really any buzz around the time of the label deal but they had money. Master P was one of the few who had enough buzz to be offered a deal but he refused and came back when he had enough money to get a label deal.

There are a lot of hustlers and go-getters from all sides, but a lot of the independent talk is just a code word to make someone more credible, the same why certain people get labeled as gangstas. There are artists from the west coast out now that BEEN signed that everyone assumes is independent. Even the so called "independent" labels that are based on the west coast have close ties with the parent companies. It's a monopoly and always has been. Record companies are a mafia and they will send the order to black ball an artist just like they'll send the order to make a artist hot.

It's not high anymore, but certain Oakland neighborhoods still have a murder rate higher than the national average. 60 murders isn't alot, but if you break it down by neighborhood, I'm sure it paints a bleaker picture. That's not to say you need pain and misery and violence to mold and create new innovative forms of Black expression, but obliging your argument, there are still neighborhoods in Oakland, SF, and Richmond where the Black-On-Black murder rate and poverty is just as bad as any other city in America.

Agree to disagree with the bolded, I will concede that there are are degrees of disenfranchisement, poverty, helplessness, and generally bad people everywhere. Although the reality of those conditions are not present in the SFBA as much as the media or the populous likes to portray, I agree it is there and as important to consider as anywhere else.
 

IllmaticDelta

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I agree with FruitVale. The James Brown samples were obvious sampling material for Hip-Hop, which at the time, was still "just" dance music. They'd sample the Amen break, and other popular Black artist breaks, but outside of that, they didn't go deeper into sampling other genres of Black music like the Westcoast and Down South did a decade or two later. It was limited to James Brown and other breaks. But than again, that may be due to hip-hop being so young back in the 70's and 80's, that they didn't know HOW to sample anything else but popular uptemo James Brown breaks, rather than them just having a disinterest in Jazz, Blues, and other Funk acts besides James Brown.


East Coast was already sampling Jazz breaks in the 80's
 

Biscayne

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Back in the days you didn't have to have a major buzz in the streets like now before labels looked at you. Hip Hop was so new and fresh in the "hustler era" that anybody who had the money would get on. Jay Z didn't have a buzz and none of the labels liked him, but he put up his own money and Def Jam didn't turn it down. That's true independence because he got the ball rolling himself and payed for a label deal and never signed as an artist. A lot of these cats back then and now were never really independent. Most of E-40's success came after he took the deal. Cash Money didn't have really any buzz around the time of the label deal but they had money. Master P was one of the few who had enough buzz to be offered a deal but he refused and came back when he had enough money to get a label deal.

There are a lot of hustlers and go-getters from all sides, but a lot of the independent talk is just a code word to make someone more credible, the same why certain people get labeled as gangstas. There are artists from the west coast out now that BEEN signed that everyone assumes is independent. Even the so called "independent" labels that are based on the west coast have close ties with the parent companies. It's a monopoly and always has been. Record companies are a mafia and they will send the order to black ball an artist just like they'll send the order to make a artist hot.



Agree to disagree with the bolded, I will concede that there are are degrees of disenfranchisement, poverty, helplessness, and generally bad people everywhere. Although the reality of those conditions are not present in the SFBA as much as the media or the populous likes to portray, I agree it is there and as important to consider as anywhere else.

But Master P and most Southern artist who blew up in the mid-to-late 90's DID have Buzz in the streets and in multiple states before Blowing up. Their popularity didn't come from a vacuum or a void. Same with Bay Area and Westcoast artist who blew up around that time. They all had underground hits, that had nothing to do with any major label interference.




When has the media tried to portray all of the Bay as being poverty stricken and Black though? :jbhmm:

They've been REALLY specific in which areas of The Bay are predominantly Black, and poverty stricken. The media usually protrays the Bay as either Full House, or White Liberal Hippies, or Asian techies and IT geeks. You make it seem like they try to portray The Bay as Detroit. The media has never tried to portray THE WHOLE Bay Area as a Black Mecca. It was always areas like Oakland and surrounding towns that had a Black plurality that got the bulk of any Black portrayal. Hell, Oakland, Richmond, and East Palo Alto are the only cities that have been portrayed in Films dealing with Black poverty. And those cities actually had the murder rates and crime stats to back it up.
 

Doomsday

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But Master P and most Southern artist who blew up in the mid-to-late 90's DID have Buzz in the streets and in multiple states before Blowing up. Their popularity didn't come from a vacuum or a void. Same with Bay Area and Westcoast artist who blew up around that time. They all had underground hits, that had nothing to do with any major label interference.

I agree with that. I'm saying though, their success had more to do with contract (label deal), than being independent. Master P had the money to push his underground stuff and 100,000k is good but it wasn't like he was going platinum in the streets before he was signed. Cash Money was on the scene and had a label deal before they really deserved to buzz wise.

Independence has become a code word more than a real thing. Nipsey is technically independent, but he has the same connects that major label artist have, so does he get full independent props? 'Hustle In The House' had mainstream push. Nipsey is just one example but there are a lot of situations like that.
When has the media tried to portray all of the Bay as being poverty stricken and Black though? :jbhmm:

All the time. The bay area is coined as extremely urban, as if the non-black population just appeared out of nowhere by magic.

They've been REALLY specific in which areas of The Bay are predominantly Black, and poverty stricken. The media usually protrays the Bay as either Full House, or White Liberal Hippies, or Asian techies and IT geeks.

And San Francisco is still pissed about it. San Francisco natives act like everybody in the city is broke and lives in Hell's Kitchen.

You make it seem like they try to portray The Bay as Detroit.

They do try to portray Oakland and Richmond like south side Chicago and Detroit. If you went to school in south side it's like an HBCU, if you went to school in the bay it's like a united nations convention. Detroit is weird though, because they try to portray Detroit as whiter than it really is, then they try to portray the SFBA as blacker than it really is.

The media has never tried to portray THE WHOLE Bay Area as a Black Mecca.

It tries to be slick and portray it as an urban mecca, which is sort of the same thing.

It was always areas like Oakland and surrounding towns that had a Black plurality that got the bulk of any Black portrayal. Hell, Oakland, Richmond, and East Palo Alto are the only cities that have been portrayed in Films dealing with Black poverty. And those cities actually had the murder rates and crime stats to back it up.

Oakland had black plurality for a decade and a half, that's it. That time has long since passed. EPA has never had a large black ratio beyond the hype and crime at it's worst in Palo Alto has never been high. Palo Alto segregates EPA and it's residency is reduced to around 30,000 people so stats are exaggerated. The murder rate for EPA last year was 6...6! Six people dying all year is excellent news, nothing about those stats come across as dangerous. EPA at it's worst (a couple of years) was always per capita and never in general.
 

Xtraz2

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No it's not high. Last year was 60, that isn't high at all, especially for a population of 500,000.
Higher than cities in the mid west? Lol, what cities are these? Chicago? No. Detroit? Hell no. Gary? Nope. Flint? Nope. Saint Louis? Hell no.
Oakland crime is high compared to the rest of the SFBA, but in general it's low. It shouldn't be on the charts at all actually.
You lack common sense

Oakland has been heavily gentrified, you're naming cities in tha Midwest that haven't

tha hood in East Oakland is just as dangerous if not more than Flint, Detroit, Chicago etc

tha whole south blew up cuz tha Bay, Master P got his independent hustle from Richmond CA, he even admits it himself

tha Bay had one tha biggest independent rap scenes

Tupac wuz acting like a gay ballerina in Baltimore....it wuznt till he came to tha bay that he got gamed up by real ones

you non-Cali dudes is weirdos, y'all Virginia dudes or wherever tha fukk you from not even on tha map...never were, y'all don't hold a candle to tha bays influence on tha rap game and black culture in general, a bay nikka probably fukked your bytch :umad:
 

mobbinfms

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Oakland has been heavily gentrified, you're naming cities in tha Midwest that haven't

tha hood in East Oakland is just as dangerous if not more than Flint, Detroit, Chicago etc
This is a critical distinction. Looking at crime statistics for an entire city can be incredibly misleading.
 
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Biscayne

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I agree with that. I'm saying though, their success had more to do with contract (label deal), than being independent. Master P had the money to push his underground stuff and 100,000k is good but it wasn't like he was going platinum in the streets before he was signed. Cash Money was on the scene and had a label deal before they really deserved to buzz wise.

Independence has become a code word more than a real thing. Nipsey is technically independent, but he has the same connects that major label artist have, so does he get full independent props? 'Hustle In The House' had mainstream push. Nipsey is just one example but there are a lot of situations like that.


All the time. The bay area is coined as extremely urban, as if the non-black population just appeared out of nowhere by magic.



And San Francisco is still pissed about it. San Francisco natives act like everybody in the city is broke and lives in Hell's Kitchen.



They do try to portray Oakland and Richmond like south side Chicago and Detroit. If you went to school in south side it's like an HBCU, if you went to school in the bay it's like a united nations convention. Detroit is weird though, because they try to portray Detroit as whiter than it really is, then they try to portray the SFBA as blacker than it really is.



It tries to be slick and portray it as an urban mecca, which is sort of the same thing.



Oakland had black plurality for a decade and a half, that's it. That time has long since passed. EPA has never had a large black ratio beyond the hype and crime at it's worst in Palo Alto has never been high. Palo Alto segregates EPA and it's residency is reduced to around 30,000 people so stats are exaggerated. The murder rate for EPA last year was 6...6! Six people dying all year is excellent news, nothing about those stats come across as dangerous. EPA at it's worst (a couple of years) was always per capita and never in general.
Oakland at it's peak was 43-45% Black. That's MORE than enough for there to be entire neighborhoods, districts, census tracts, and high-schools where Blacks make up far and away a majority of people you'll interact with on a daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly basis.

They try to portray The Bay as urban, because The Bay IS urban. Urban isn't ALWAYS synonymous with Black. Come down South to some rural areas and rural towns where Blacks make up 50% to 95% of the town's population.

There once was a time when there were alot of White homeless drug addicts, criminals, and poor Whites in certain working class URBAN neighborhoods in SF like The Tenderloin, and The Castro. That portrayal was accurate. They never tried to tie-in what was going on in The Tenderloin with Black poverty. Hell, I didn't even know neighborhoods like Fillmore and Hunters-Point Bayview even existed until maybe 6-7yrs ago, because I thought SF was nothing but Whites and Asians, and that historically Black neighborhoods and projects didn't exist in The City. If anything they've under represented SF's Black community, as areas like Lakeview, Sunnydale, Hunters Point-Bayview, and Fillmore have been underrepresented in the media when talking about SF.

And METRO Detroit isn't THAT Black. The city it's self is pretty Black, but the metropolitan area of Detroit is majority White and Middle-Eastern. Black people only make up 22% of Metro Detroits population compared to 70% for White people. The way they portray Detroit, you'd think those stats were reverse.
 

Doomsday

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Oakland has been heavily gentrified, you're naming cities in tha Midwest that haven't

Real hoods can't be gentrified.

tha hood in East Oakland is just as dangerous if not more than Flint, Detroit, Chicago etc

Hilarous! Hell naw.

Detroit has almost 20 times the murder rate. You have to be joking. That's funny.

tha whole south blew up cuz tha Bay, Master P got his independent hustle from Richmond CA, he even admits it himself

Master P came to Richmond to open a record store. And as I mentioned, Universal (the label that Master P would eventually be apart of) is located in San Francisco. Independently putting out music is a myth, especially back then. If you weren't pressing and selling out of your car than no.

tha Bay had one tha biggest independent rap scenes

Myth. California period has the most major label influence. ATL music scene is more independent than the SFBA was or ever has been.

Tupac wuz acting like a gay ballerina in Baltimore....it wuznt till he came to tha bay that he got gamed up by real ones

Now your trolling. The SFBA will never be anywhere close to Baltimore as far as black culture or poverty is concerned. Real ones? Cali is a bunch a rich non-blacks sitting fat, never struggled a day in their life. Someone breaking a nail in the bay is national news. Also, the bay area crew Pac linked up with had him dancing with speedos on not Baltimore nikkas.

y'all Virginia dudes or wherever tha fukk you from not even on tha map

Funny considering the greatest producers of all time and responsible for half of urban radio in their primes are from there.

bays influence on tha rap game and black culture in general, a bay nikka probably fukked your bytch :umad:

LOL @ a 6% black area influencing black culture. If it wasn't for Louisiana there wouldn't be any blacks on the west coast to begin with.
 
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