Whenever a song by that clique of bay area rappers came on Rap City it was channel switch on sight

[Doomsday]

This is a critical distinction. Looking at crime statistics for an entire city can be incredibly misleading.

If you want to break it down to neighborhoods than the gap between cities like Chicago, Detroit, and Saint Louis widens even more. There is no comparison. Detroit is literally the poorest city and 20 times worse than any city in the SFBA. It's even worse when you consider Saint Louis only has 200,000 people in it.

 

[Biscayne]

Real hoods can't be gentrified.



Hilarous! Hell naw.

Detroit has almost 20 times the murder rate. You have to be joking. That's funny.



Master P came to Richmond to open a record store. And as I mentioned, Universal (the label that Master P would eventually be apart of) is located in San Francisco. Independently putting out music is a myth, especially back then. If you weren't pressing and selling out of your car than no.



Myth. California period has the most major label influence. ATL music scene is more independent than the SFBA was or ever has been.



Now your trolling. The SFBA will never be anywhere close to Baltimore as far as black culture or poverty is concerned. Real ones? Cali is a bunch a rich non-blacks sitting fat, never struggled a day in their life. Someone breaking a nail in the bay is national news. Also, the bay area crew Pac linked up with had him dancing with speedos on not Baltimore nikkas.



Funny considering the greatest producers of all time and responsible for half of urban radio in their primes are from there.



LOL @ a 6% black area influencing black culture. If it wasn't for Louisiana there wouldn't be any blacks on the west coast to begin with.

They didn't have Vice, Noisey, or anything like that back then that would go into those neighborhoods and give rappers free publicity. Nor did they have YouTube or the internet to spread their music at light-speed. Either way, the major artist out of ATL right now, all have major labels backing them. And the ones that are "truly" independent as you say, don't have any more name recognition than Master P, or E40 did back in the mid to late-90's.

 

[Xtraz2]

Real hoods can't be gentrified.



Hilarous! Hell naw.

Detroit has almost 20 times the murder rate. You have to be joking. That's funny.



Master P came to Richmond to open a record store. And as I mentioned, Universal (the label that Master P would eventually be apart of) is located in San Francisco. Independently putting out music is a myth, especially back then. If you weren't pressing and selling out of your car than no.



Myth. California period has the most major label influence. ATL music scene is more independent than the SFBA was or ever has been.



Now your trolling. The SFBA will never be anywhere close to Baltimore as far as black culture or poverty is concerned. Real ones? Cali is a bunch a rich non-blacks sitting fat, never struggled a day in their life. Someone breaking a nail in the bay is national news. Also, the bay area crew Pac linked up with had him dancing with speedos on not Baltimore nikkas.



Funny considering the greatest producers of all time and responsible for half of urban radio in their primes are from there.



LOL @ a 6% black area influencing black culture. If it wasn't for Louisiana there wouldn't be any blacks on the west coast to begin with.

Detroit has 20 times the murder rate of east Oakland? Show the receipts

Universal music being located in SF had nothing to do with Master P living in Richmond, west coast music wuz popping at tha time due to tha west coast kicking down tha door and forcing tha world to listen, not cuz some record company offices were there, you sound dumber then I thought you were

Timbaland is tha greatest producer of all time? that nikka hella corny, everybody knows him for songs with nelly furtado, magoo, missy Elliot and Aaliyah, bunch of r&b bullshyt not rap...you can't be serious with this cornball shyt, it's like tha twighlight zone in this muthafukka

bringing up Louisiana is irrelevant, most of California blacks migrated from there, then Nolia nikkas still dikkriding califormia with "soulja rags" white t shirts and tattoos

 

[Xtraz2]

If you want to break it down to neighborhoods than the gap between cities like Chicago, Detroit, and Saint Louis widens even more. There is no comparison. Detroit is literally the poorest city and 20 times worse than any city in the SFBA. It's even worse when you consider Saint Louis only has 200,000 people in it.

Break it down to neighborhoods then idiot

East Palo Alto (SF Bay Area) 1992

Google that and we can lock this thread up after that

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

I agree with that. I'm saying though, their success had more to do with contract (label deal), than being independent. Master P had the money to push his underground stuff and 100,000k is good but it wasn't like he was going platinum in the streets before he was signed. Cash Money was on the scene and had a label deal before they really deserved to buzz wise.

Independence has become a code word more than a real thing. Nipsey is technically independent, but he has the same connects that major label artist have, so does he get full independent props? 'Hustle In The House' had mainstream push. Nipsey is just one example but there are a lot of situations like that.


All the time. The bay area is coined as extremely urban, as if the non-black population just appeared out of nowhere by magic.



And San Francisco is still pissed about it. San Francisco natives act like everybody in the city is broke and lives in Hell's Kitchen.



They do try to portray Oakland and Richmond like south side Chicago and Detroit. If you went to school in south side it's like an HBCU, if you went to school in the bay it's like a united nations convention. Detroit is weird though, because they try to portray Detroit as whiter than it really is, then they try to portray the SFBA as blacker than it really is.



It tries to be slick and portray it as an urban mecca, which is sort of the same thing.



Oakland had black plurality for a decade and a half, that's it. That time has long since passed. EPA has never had a large black ratio beyond the hype and crime at it's worst in Palo Alto has never been high. Palo Alto segregates EPA and it's residency is reduced to around 30,000 people so stats are exaggerated. The murder rate for EPA last year was 6...6! Six people dying all year is excellent news, nothing about those stats come across as dangerous. EPA at it's worst (a couple of years) was always per capita and never in general.

I lightweight agree with what you're tryna say here except with the bolded. San Francisco natives are being made broke by the rising rent in the city, actual natives that still live in the city are holding onto rent control. SROs used to be the main way you could stay in the city for little to nothing but they're knocking those down as well.

Up until the late 80s EPA was 60% black, it only shifted after latinos moved into the South Bay and the East Bay en masse in the late 80s and 90s.

To say that EPA wasn't bad "in general" because of its size is a misinterpretation of stats... There was literally at least one body dropping a week in the early 90s in a tiny city 1/4 the population of Englewood, Chicago. Back in the same time period Englewood was recording half as many murders despite having 4x the population. The only comparably bad city/area of EPA's size at the time was East St. Louis.

The main reason why EPA gentrified is because of the tech boom in Silicon Valley in the mid/late 90s. After that, investors redeveloped Whiskey Gulch into 4 Seasons and they built the Ravenswood shopping center right before that. Whiskey Gulch was a black business center... It was successfully demolished because of pressure from Palo Alto city hall over a few publicized incidents of Stanford students trying to buy drugs there and being robbed/getting fukked up. Half of EPA was purchased in shortsales by real estate investors during the mid 2000s.

Your view of Bay Area media is about as far from the reality that I've seen everyday for the past 10 years. Oakland was portrayed as the ghetto of the Bay as long as I can remember... San Francisco crime was never publicized let alone sensationalized. Oakland crime WAS sensationalized... It was never quite as desperate of a situation in Oakland as it was in the midwestern cities that were mentioned earlier in this thread. That being said, there was also a lot more money at stake in the Oakland drug trade and on the track than there ever was in St. Louis, Cleveland, etc. The crime was fueled by blood feuds over drug turf and high school conflicts that turned into full-on wars after somebody got killed on one side of the conflict. It was the same in San Francisco... the only difference in San Francisco is that the black population there was always A LOT poorer as a whole with the exception of the Fillmore.

 

[Xtraz2]

E. Palo Alto Murder Rate Worst in U.S.; Drug Wars Blamed

 

[Doomsday]

Oakland at it's peak was 43-45% Black. That's MORE than enough for there to be entire neighborhoods, districts, census tracts, and high-schools where Blacks make up far and away a majority of people you'll interact with on a daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly basis.

50 years ago for a period of 15 years yes.

They try to portray The Bay as urban, because The Bay IS urban. Urban isn't ALWAYS synonymous with Black. Come down South to some rural areas and rural towns where Blacks make up 50% to 95% of the town's population.

SFBA isn't urban in any category currently.

There once was a time when there were alot of White homeless drug addicts, criminals, and poor Whites in certain working class URBAN neighborhoods in SF like The Tenderloin, and The Castro. That portrayal was accurate. They never tried to tie-in what was going on in The Tenderloin with Black poverty. Hell, I didn't even know neighborhoods like Fillmore and Hunters-Point Bayview even existed until maybe 6-7yrs ago, because I thought SF was nothing but Whites and Asians, and that historically Black neighborhoods and projects didn't exist in The City. If anything they've under represented SF's Black community, as areas like Lakeview, Sunnydale, Hunters Point-Bayview, and Fillmore have been underrepresented in the media when talking about SF.

They've had full blown documentaries and movies depicting San Francisco as different than what it actually is.

And METRO Detroit isn't THAT Black. The city it's self is pretty Black, but the metropolitan area of Detroit is majority White and Middle-Eastern. Black people only make up 22% of Metro Detroits population compared to 70% for White people. The way they portray Detroit, you'd think those stats were reverse.

That's because metro Detroit is mostly the suburbs. It isn't like Cali where blacks are sprinkled about. It's a segregated culture. The city of Detroit is the blackest in the U.S and the cities around Detroit are majority black for the most part (Flint, Sinigaw, ect). Black folk wont live in the metro if it means integrating with non-blacks.

 

[Doomsday]

E. Palo Alto Murder Rate Worst in U.S.; Drug Wars Blamed

That link is 23 years old. On top of that did you read the link? It was worse PER CAPITA. 43 murders in general is not high.

In 2015 the EPA murder rate was 6.

 

[Biscayne]

I lightweight agree with what you're tryna say here except with the bolded. San Francisco natives are being made broke by the rising rent in the city, actual natives that still live in the city are holding onto rent control. SROs used to be the main way you could stay in the city for little to nothing but they're knocking those down as well.

Up until the late 80s EPA was 60% black, it only shifted after latinos moved into the South Bay and the East Bay en masse in the late 80s and 90s.

To say that EPA wasn't bad "in general" because of its size is a misinterpretation of stats... There was literally at least one body dropping a week in the early 90s in a tiny city 1/4 the population of Englewood, Chicago. Back in the same time period Englewood was recording half as many murders despite having 4x the population. The only comparably bad city/area of EPA's size at the time was East St. Louis.

The main reason why EPA gentrified is because of the tech boom in Silicon Valley in the mid/late 90s. After that, investors redeveloped Whiskey Gulch into 4 Seasons and they built the Ravenswood shopping center right before that. Whiskey Gulch was a black business center... It was successfully demolished because of pressure from Palo Alto city hall over a few publicized incidents of Stanford students trying to buy drugs there and being robbed/getting fukked up. Half of EPA was purchased in shortsales by real estate investors during the mid 2000s.

Your view of Bay Area media is about as far from the reality that I've seen everyday for the past 10 years. Oakland was portrayed as the ghetto of the Bay as long as I can remember... San Francisco crime was never publicized let alone sensationalized. Oakland crime WAS sensationalized... It was never quite as desperate of a situation in Oakland as it was in the midwestern cities that were mentioned earlier in this thread. That being said, there was also a lot more money at stake in the Oakland drug trade and on the track than there ever was in St. Louis, Cleveland, etc. The crime was fueled by blood feuds over drug turf and high school conflicts that turned into full-on wars after somebody got killed on one side of the conflict. It was the same in San Francisco... the only difference in San Francisco is that the black population there was always A LOT poorer as a whole with the exception of the Fillmore.

Exactly. And again, I don't think there needs to be extreme violence and poverty for their to be innovative Black expression, but he fails to realize that even though Blacks only made up around 15% of SF's population, they made up nearly 50% of SF's annual homicide victims. The few pockets of Black population in SF were some of the poorest neighborhoods in all of California. Now, that's not to say that White criminality and Asian criminality wasn't dominant in SF either. You have some shady Whites who are involved in the drug trade in EVERY city in the US.

50 years ago for a period of 15 years yes.



SFBA isn't urban in any category currently.



They've had full blown documentaries and movies depicting San Francisco as different than what it actually is.



That's because metro Detroit is mostly the suburbs. It isn't like Cali where blacks are sprinkled about. It's a segregated culture. The city of Detroit is the blackest in the U.S and the cities around Detroit are majority black for the most part (Flint, Sinigaw, ect). Black folk wont live in the metro if it means integrating with non-blacks.

Those documentaries only expose certain neighborhoods in SF that have been neglected by the media and have been hidden by White SF residents. Those documentaries never tried to portray SF as a Black Mecca ala Detroit or Atlanta. The Black areas of SF were really Black, were really innovative as far as Black Self-Expression, and they really birthed Black musicians, Black Athletes and Black politicians. Recognizing Black San Francisco's contributions to the African-American community at large, isn't misleading or at least I don't think they're trying to mislead Black Americans who aren't from Cali into believing SF is this great Black Mecca. They just want people to realize that Black folks have had a steak in SF's growth as a city after WWII.

 

[Xtraz2]

That link is 23 years old. On top of that did you read the link? It was worse PER CAPITA. 43 murders in general is not high.

In 2015 the EPA murder rate was 6.

You gotta be trolling

43 murders for 20,000 people is extremely high

every statistic is done per capita, that's tha only way to measure tha level of crime

if we wanna disregard per capita then California has tha most murders out of any state, so where duz that leave your argument?

 

[Barnett114]

 

[Biscayne]

That link is 23 years old. On top of that did you read the link? It was worse PER CAPITA. 43 murders in general is not high.

In 2015 the EPA murder rate was 6.

43 murders in a city as tiny as EPA is high. Why wouldn't it be? EPA is only 2.6 square miles large, and had a population of maybe 23,000 people at the time it recorded those 43 murders. Who lives in an area or neighborhood as small as EPA where people around them are getting shot left and right and thinks to themselves "At least we're not Detroit!! "

 

[Biscayne]

You gotta be trolling

43 murders for 20,000 people is extremely high

every statistic is done per capita, that's tha only way to measure tha level of crime

if we wanna disregard per capita then California has tha most murders out of any state, so where duz that leave your argument?

Cali's the Black mecca using his logic. Cali's total murder numbers haven't been surpassed since maybe the 1920's....

 

[Xtraz2]

Cali's the Black mecca using his logic. Cali's total murder numbers haven't been surpassed since maybe the 1920's....

there's no way for dude to win this

Finish Him!

 

[Doomsday]

I lightweight agree with what you're tryna say here except with the bolded. San Francisco natives are being made broke by the rising rent in the city, actual natives that still live in the city are holding onto rent control. SROs used to be the main way you could stay in the city for little to nothing but they're knocking those down as well.

If you can afford to live in San Francisco you can't be broke.

Up until the late 80s EPA was 60% black, it only shifted after latinos moved into the South Bay and the East Bay en masse in the late 80s and 90s.

Ok I'll give you that.

To say that EPA wasn't bad "in general" because of its size is a misinterpretation of stats... There was literally at least one body dropping a week in the early 90s in a tiny city 1/4 the population of Englewood, Chicago. Back in the same time period Englewood was recording half as many murders despite having 4x the population. The only comparably bad city/area of EPA's size at the time was East St. Louis.

Someone already posted the link. The actual number was 43. High per capita but not in general. Per capital works as the basis for danger in theory but at certain points it should be thrown out. 30k is enough to fill a stadium, and if 6 people die (or 43 at it's peak) from that stadium, I don't feel that it should be magnified simply because Palo Alto segregated it's minority population. Again, I agree that it's high for the population of the city but in general it's not. Even if you reduced cities like Saint Louis down to equal EPA it's would still be worse.

But again, we're talking about over 20 years ago. It goes without saying that 6 isn't a high number even if you include per capita in the argument.

The main reason why EPA gentrified is because of the tech boom in Silicon Valley in the mid/late 90s. After that, investors redeveloped Whiskey Gulch into 4 Seasons and they built the Ravenswood shopping center right before that. Whiskey Gulch was a black business center... It was successfully demolished because of pressure from Palo Alto city hall over a few publicized incidents of Stanford students trying to buy drugs there and being robbed/getting fukked up. Half of EPA was purchased in shortsales by real estate investors during the mid 2000s.

Dapped.

Your view of Bay Area media is about as far from the reality that I've seen everyday for the past 10 years.

That's exactly my point.

Oakland was portrayed as the ghetto of the Bay as long as I can remember... San Francisco crime was never publicized let alone sensationalized. Oakland crime WAS sensationalized... It was never quite as desperate of a situation in Oakland as it was in the midwestern cities that were mentioned earlier in this thread. That being said, there was also a lot more money at stake in the Oakland drug trade and on the track than there ever was in St. Louis, Cleveland, etc. The crime was fueled by blood feuds over drug turf and high school conflicts that turned into full-on wars after somebody got killed on one side of the conflict. It was the same in San Francisco... the only difference in San Francisco is that the black population there was always A LOT poorer as a whole with the exception of the Fillmore.

I have to disagree with the bolded but I pretty much agree with the rest.