Who was considered the Goat before MJ [edit : Poll Added]
- Thread starter bucks3115
- Start date
CROM
Pray. I will not listen, but I will laugh at you
As an “unofficial” old-head, I don’t recall any conversation about Bill Russell being the greatest. That’s mostly because championships were never the standard for defining who was great and who wasn’t back in the day. Bill was highly respected and considered the best defender ever, but I never heard him talked about as the greatest player. I often heard Wilt mentioned. Heard Abdul-Jabbar mentioned. Dr. J was undoubtedly the most popular player, and it wasn’t close...particularly in his ABA years. So he was often mentioned. You had random names mentioned like Big O and Elgin Baylor...some (for whatever reason) even threw “Black Jesus” Monroe in the conversation...but it always came down to Wilt, Kareem, and Doc....At least until Magic and Bird came along. Fact is, its hard to really say who the best ever is before Mike. Magic and Bird didn’t play a prime Alcindor/Abdul-Jabber. Alcindor never played a prime Wilt. Doc’s most dominant years were in the ABA...though he did revolutionize the game in both leagues.
These conversations are always fun, but subjective. Everyone has their own criteria for determining who they believe is the greatest. I’ve argued that Willie Mays was the greatest baseball player ever, but most people still say Ruth. If you tell me Aaron...i really couldn’t dispute it. They were all top tier players. So, I think arguments could be made for Kareem, Wilt, Doc, Magic, or Bird...and all arguments would be valid. My pick...Kareem, who was the definition of unstoppable in his prime...but I could be persuaded with any of the others.
These conversations are always fun, but subjective. Everyone has their own criteria for determining who they believe is the greatest. I’ve argued that Willie Mays was the greatest baseball player ever, but most people still say Ruth. If you tell me Aaron...i really couldn’t dispute it. They were all top tier players. So, I think arguments could be made for Kareem, Wilt, Doc, Magic, or Bird...and all arguments would be valid. My pick...Kareem, who was the definition of unstoppable in his prime...but I could be persuaded with any of the others.
The Amerikkkan Idol
The Amerikkkan Nightmare
This is false
Nah, I had this basketball card in '93 saying Jordan was the greatest after the 1st 3peat.
People were saying that back in the '90s
The Amerikkkan Idol
The Amerikkkan Nightmare
Damn good discussion on here.
No ad hominem attacks or nothing.
Just pure hoops supremacy how it's supposed to be
No ad hominem attacks or nothing.
Just pure hoops supremacy how it's supposed to be
Greenhornet
A God Among Kings
I gotta vote for Bill Russell off rip... even though I started watching in 91-92
Dr J didnt get enough credit and still doesnt
Most people didnt talk about Bill just like today - so I voted for him based on undeniability
Wilt is always considered GOAT until you break down wins and get older
Kareem was considered GOAT too but I feel like the Bird Magic shyt kind of segwayed the convo a bit during that time period
I personally think at that time too much great stuff was happening to pinpoint one true GOAT ... most people were saying Magic while him and Bird were battling and destroying eachother.
I just feel like people look at Bill, even to this day and think his excellence and wins dont stack up to amazing stats or god tier shyt. Even though he did some of the most insane shyt on the basketball court of all time all while collecting rings like they were going out of style. nikka won so much that he broke the argument... same way Wilt broke the argument of stats and all that. People will always try to downplay original basketball like its not great.
Dr J didnt get enough credit and still doesnt
Most people didnt talk about Bill just like today - so I voted for him based on undeniability
Wilt is always considered GOAT until you break down wins and get older
Kareem was considered GOAT too but I feel like the Bird Magic shyt kind of segwayed the convo a bit during that time period
I personally think at that time too much great stuff was happening to pinpoint one true GOAT ... most people were saying Magic while him and Bird were battling and destroying eachother.
I just feel like people look at Bill, even to this day and think his excellence and wins dont stack up to amazing stats or god tier shyt. Even though he did some of the most insane shyt on the basketball court of all time all while collecting rings like they were going out of style. nikka won so much that he broke the argument... same way Wilt broke the argument of stats and all that. People will always try to downplay original basketball like its not great.
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
G.O.A.T. discussion historically in my eyes...
Bill Russell was the G.O.A.T. before MJ by general consensus then...
It’s funny how nowadays people try to keep him out the top 10 but that man was greatness to the old guard. Patrick Ewing was a G.O.A.T. level prospect and was called “the next Bill Russell” coming out of Georgetown. The same way the league was looking for that next MJ. A young Lew Alcindor saw Russell as a boyhood idol.
Some people had Wilt as the G.O.A.T. the most dominant player known to man. But he had too many black holes on his resume and losses to Russell.
KAJ prime was in the 70’s he was sandwiched between the old and new guard and played in a tape delay pre-merger era. He also didn’t fukk with the media like that which hurt his perception. He’s always been underrated because of this despite all his accomplishments. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was considered the G.O.A.T. at some point in the mid to late 80’s especially after setting the All-Time scoring record.
Jerry West was the Logo but he was a guard and the NBA was big man dominant, the bigs were perceived as the best most impactful players and he lost a lot of Finals. Big O didn’t win until late in his career. Dr. J was a legend but his prime was in the ABA. There’s old heads who probably have these three as their favorite player or greatest ever.
In the 80’s, that’s when Bird, Magic, Jordan came in. Bird was the Great White Hope, those publications were trying to crown him as the new G.O.A.T. early into his career. Magic of course especially winning as a rookie while “playing all 5 positions”. But to Bird, a young MJ was god in basketball sneakers. MJ was seen as a ball hog who didn’t make others better. By the first 3-Peat, MJ was pretty much consensus G.O.A.T. and had changed the game.
Shaq came into the convo by the Lakers 3-Peat. He’s been called most dominant like Wilt but never outright G.O.A.T. but he had the potential to be so.
Kobe was seen as being damn near on Michael’s level to some (Mark Jackson) in that ‘05-‘10 stretch probably when he was first referred to as an All-Time great. He’s ranked anywhere between 1-10 by people. Duncan has never been discussed much of course being a “boring Spur” but is consensus top 10 now.
The earliest person to crown LeBron as an All-Time great was Bill Walton who put LeBron as top 10 ever as early as ‘05 and complained about the Cavs supporting cast and organizational stability top down ripping them for firing coach Paul Silas. Then you had Steve Kerr calling him “Jordanesque” after his performance against Detroit in ‘07. As of 2010 people like Bill Simmons was saying sky is the limit but after his 2011 Finals performance to me and many others he lost the ability to be the best. Although he has somewhat overcome that. Most recently he’s been ranked as pretty much consensus top 3 especially after the 2016 Finals.
Curry and KD are great but are more in the greatest shooter and scorer discussions than actual greatest player and those guys have a top 15 peak.
To answer the thread it was Russell then Jordan has been to present day. But people had their favorite it wasn’t no criteria or cut and dry answer. I feel like people respected that then. It’s old heads who Nate Archibald, Earl Monroe, Bernard King might be their favorite player. Isiah Thomas and Dominique Wilkins were huge in the middle of the Jordan/Bird/Magic era. When Michael Jordan was a boy he looked up to Dr. J and two little known guys named David Thompson and Walter Davis.
In actuality there is no G.O.A.T. different positions, eras, circumstances, etc.
Bill Russell was the G.O.A.T. before MJ by general consensus then...
It’s funny how nowadays people try to keep him out the top 10 but that man was greatness to the old guard. Patrick Ewing was a G.O.A.T. level prospect and was called “the next Bill Russell” coming out of Georgetown. The same way the league was looking for that next MJ. A young Lew Alcindor saw Russell as a boyhood idol.
Some people had Wilt as the G.O.A.T. the most dominant player known to man. But he had too many black holes on his resume and losses to Russell.
KAJ prime was in the 70’s he was sandwiched between the old and new guard and played in a tape delay pre-merger era. He also didn’t fukk with the media like that which hurt his perception. He’s always been underrated because of this despite all his accomplishments. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was considered the G.O.A.T. at some point in the mid to late 80’s especially after setting the All-Time scoring record.
Jerry West was the Logo but he was a guard and the NBA was big man dominant, the bigs were perceived as the best most impactful players and he lost a lot of Finals. Big O didn’t win until late in his career. Dr. J was a legend but his prime was in the ABA. There’s old heads who probably have these three as their favorite player or greatest ever.
In the 80’s, that’s when Bird, Magic, Jordan came in. Bird was the Great White Hope, those publications were trying to crown him as the new G.O.A.T. early into his career. Magic of course especially winning as a rookie while “playing all 5 positions”. But to Bird, a young MJ was god in basketball sneakers. MJ was seen as a ball hog who didn’t make others better. By the first 3-Peat, MJ was pretty much consensus G.O.A.T. and had changed the game.
Shaq came into the convo by the Lakers 3-Peat. He’s been called most dominant like Wilt but never outright G.O.A.T. but he had the potential to be so.
Kobe was seen as being damn near on Michael’s level to some (Mark Jackson) in that ‘05-‘10 stretch probably when he was first referred to as an All-Time great. He’s ranked anywhere between 1-10 by people. Duncan has never been discussed much of course being a “boring Spur” but is consensus top 10 now.
The earliest person to crown LeBron as an All-Time great was Bill Walton who put LeBron as top 10 ever as early as ‘05 and complained about the Cavs supporting cast and organizational stability top down ripping them for firing coach Paul Silas. Then you had Steve Kerr calling him “Jordanesque” after his performance against Detroit in ‘07. As of 2010 people like Bill Simmons was saying sky is the limit but after his 2011 Finals performance to me and many others he lost the ability to be the best. Although he has somewhat overcome that. Most recently he’s been ranked as pretty much consensus top 3 especially after the 2016 Finals.
Curry and KD are great but are more in the greatest shooter and scorer discussions than actual greatest player and those guys have a top 15 peak.
To answer the thread it was Russell then Jordan has been to present day. But people had their favorite it wasn’t no criteria or cut and dry answer. I feel like people respected that then. It’s old heads who Nate Archibald, Earl Monroe, Bernard King might be their favorite player. Isiah Thomas and Dominique Wilkins were huge in the middle of the Jordan/Bird/Magic era. When Michael Jordan was a boy he looked up to Dr. J and two little known guys named David Thompson and Walter Davis.
In actuality there is no G.O.A.T. different positions, eras, circumstances, etc.
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