Who was greater, Philip II or Alexander the Great?

[Dave24]

There’s a Jewish historian who mentioned that Alexander visited Jersusalem and was given prophecy from the book of Daniel that prophecied his earthly ambitions, he was awestruck and even sacrificed an animal towards the God of Jerusalem as an act of respect

@Kitsune was Alexander considered an evil or good figure in the book of Daniel?

 

[HiphopRelated]

Napoleon wasn't trying to be Philip

 

[Dave24]

Napoleon wasn't trying to be Philip

Speaking of Napoleon did he surpass Alexander in terms of historical legacy nd accomplishments??

 

[419scam]

Imagine being so famous that the entire human race will never forget you and have a place in history books till the end of times

 

[Dave24]

Imagine being so famous that the entire human race will never forget you and have a place in history books till the end of times

@419scam how could someone become a modern day Alexander??

 

[Dave24]

I'm an ambitious individual and want to become a modern day Philip II of Macedon and carve out an empire from scratch like he did.

Even though the world is different now than it was back in his day, how can I accomplish that? What career path/steps do I need to do to get from where I'm at currently to what Phillip became at the height of his power??

I am 34 years old and work a minimum wage job at a restaurant and still live with my mother. I have a two year degree in Business Management and 60,000 in student loan debt I need to repay back.

Would y'all recommend I join the air force and work my way up?? what steps do I need to take??

 

[Dave24]

I hate prison babble, so I don’t often engage in it, because it distracts black people from solving their real world problems. But I will humor you.



If they are starting in the Greece of today Philip must do extra work. And they better tag a “great” to the end of his name afterwards.In their era, Greece and Macedon were comparable to Italy (9th largest economy and huge exporter) today or the Germany of the 1880s in productive capacity. That same productive capacity is what held the unified Greece together and financed Alexander’s eastern march.


With debts and all, their first problem is resources. Greece is wreck today and makes nothing of substance for the world. So Philip must first build an economy from scratch. He must put on the hat of, Singapore’s first PM ,Lee Kuan Yew, and sell ga lot more of whatever they already produce (fish in modern Greece) then funnel the proceeds and astronomical amounts of government assets into national conglomerates and build his economic base.




From there it depends on whether he would like to be peaceful or not. Philip honestly resembles both Chancellor Otto Von Bismarck and Napoleon in the way he stitched Greece together ,

‘If he is peaceful then

• he can put on the hat of Otto Von Bismarck(dude who put Germany together) and cut deals to unite Europe as a forward operating base for the world.
• You see his peacefulness in the truces and alliances he fostered

In a warlike state,

• he resembles Napoleon who never actually invented anything, but was brilliant at rearranging variables already on the field.
• Napoleon redefined artillery usage until this day, much the way Philip revolutionized formation with the Phalnax.
• Since war today is about air supremacy, I could see Philip reorganizing fighterjet formations, or coming up with a strategy to make enemy aircraft inoperable. This would give him an edge over every current military power

From there, Alexander just puts the key in the ignition of the car Philip has already built. I could see him once again taking 90% of the world but still drinking himself to death in Mumbai again.

@CopiusX

The record-breaking jet which still haunts a country

A decade after the end of World War Two, Canada built a jet which pushed technology to its limits. But its demise showed why smaller nations found it difficult to compete in the Jet Age.

In the early years of the Cold War, Canada decided to design and build the most advanced fighter aircraft in the world.

Canada is well known for its rugged bush planes, capable of rough landings and hair-raising take-offs in the wilderness. From the late 1930s, the North American country had also started to manufacture British-designed planes for the Allied war effort. Many of these planes were iconic wartime designs like the Hawker Hurricane fighter and Avro Lancaster bomber.

Ambitious Canadian politicians and engineers weren’t satisfied with this. They decided to forge a world-leading aircraft manufacturing industry out of the factories and skilled workforce built up during the war. Tired of manufacturing aircraft designed by others, this new generation of Canadian leaders were determined to produce Canadian designs. Avro Aircraft, the Canadian airplane maker created after the war, was the company that would deliver their dream.

Freed from the set ways-of-thinking of Avro’s more established rivals, the firm’s engineers were able to work on revolutionary jet fighters, commercial airliners, flying saucers and even a space plane. They placed Canada at the technological cutting edge of the new Jet Age.

In so doing, these engineers challenged notions of what small countries like Canada could achieve in the hi-tech industries of the day, even if convincing politicians to stump up the cash for them was an altogether trickier business.

Then came the Arrow. On 4 October 1957, 14,000 people watched a large hangar on the outskirts of Toronto open to reveal a beautiful, large, white, delta-wing aircraft. The plane was the Avro Arrow interceptor. A third longer and broader than today’s Eurofighter Typhoon, the Arrow could fly close to Mach 2.0 (1,500 mph, or the maximum speed of Concorde), and had the potential to fly even faster. It was Canada’s Can$250m (US$1,58bn today) bid to become an aviation superpower.

The project was genuinely ground-breaking. Avro’s engineers had been allowed to build a record-breaker without compromise. But Canadians would soon discover that the supersonic age had made aviation projects so expensive that only a handful of countries could carry them out – and Canada, unfortunately, wasn’t one of them.

The advert for Avro Aircraft celebrating the “first 50 years of powered flight in Canada 1909–1959” had only just been printed when on “Black Friday”, 20 February 1959, the loudspeaker of the Avro Aircraft factory on the outskirts of Toronto crackled to life. Thousands of workers heard the company president announce “that f------ prick in Ottawa” (the newly elected Canadian prime minister John Diefenbaker) had cancelled the entire Arrow programme. Later that day, 14,500 skilled men and women lost their jobs. Many of these engineers joined the brain-drain to the United States. The "Avro group" of 32 engineers playing critical roles in Nasa's Apollo programme, which – ironically – beat the Soviets in the race to land a man on the moon.

Ken Barnes was a senior draftsman on the project to build the revolutionary plane when he heard the bad news. Like many Canadians, Barnes was appalled by the decision to cancel the Avro Arrow. When Barnes was told to destroy the blueprints, he hid them in his basement. There the designs stayed until Barnes's nephew discovered them after his death. It was a revelation that made headlines across Canada last year and fuelled hopes of another miracle, that perhaps one of the planes had somehow escaped destruction.

If the mass layoffs was an act of brinkmanship by the company, then it didn't work. In a move which shocked Canada, the cutting up of the Arrow prototypes took place in front of the silent factory. The moment was captured in a grainy black-and-white photograph which continues to haunt Canada. Three years later the Avro Aircraft company would be gone, with a total loss of around 50,000 jobs.

"You won't find many other countries that are so invested in an aircraft that never saw service," says Erin Gregory, curator of the Canada Aviation and Space Museum. “For Canadians, there is a sense of missed opportunities. Then there's the idea that we are a vast country with a small population and an innovative spirit that punches above its weight in many areas and the Arrow was one of those. It was the height of aviation technology, and Avro was the high-tech aviation firm in Canada. Yet, their government foils them."

“Canadians aren’t sitting around every night reliving the glory days of the Arrow,” says Amy Shira Teitel, a Canadian spaceflight historian and author of Fighting for Space: Two Pilots and Their Historic Battle for Female Spaceflight. “But Canada is obsessed with Canadiana, and the Arrow was revolutionary. It was a Mach 2 jet on par with the United States, and it was Canadian, made in Malton, Ontario. Then there was the weird decision to cancel it with no warning: ‘We failed to sell the plane to either Britain or the United States, so let’s destroy it and pretend it never happened.’”

There is an old Canadian joke that says the best thing that happened to America was the cancellation of the Arrow. Many Canadians did make the next step and instinctively blame their southern 'frenemy' for the failure of the programme.

But the controversy and conspiracy theories hid a critical truth. “Hi-tech defence projects are very expensive,” says Joe Coles, publisher of Hush-Kit, an aviation blog. "Without a large guaranteed order from your nation, they are usually prohibitively so.”

“By the time it was cancelled, the cost of the programme had ballooned to an astonishing Canadian $250m,” says Gregory. "That was an extraordinary amount of money in the 1950s, especially for a country as small as Canada. Given that millions of more dollars were still needed, it was a pretty easy cut to make."

The Arrow was a reflection of the unique company that built it. Avro Aircraft was born of the British strategy of using “shadow factories” to disperse the production of planes, tanks and other armaments in the build-up to World War Two. During the war, the factory produced iconic aircraft such as the Hawker Hurricane and the Lancaster bomber. With victory approaching, the Canadian government minister CD Howe believed it was of “utmost importance” to use this opportunity to establish a Canadian aircraft industry. Avro’s engineers rose to the challenge. In 1949 came the C-102 Jetliner, Canada’s first jet plane, North America’s first passenger jet, and the world's second jet airliner. One year later they rolled out Canada’s first – and so far, only mass-produced – jet fighter, the CF-100 Canuck. Though the company shared a name with the makers of the Lancaster bomber, it was in fact a subsidiary of Hawker.

Avro’s hush-hush Special Project Group pioneered flying saucer-shaped vertical take-off and landing aircraft like the Avrocar. Another group was working on the Space Threshold Vehicle to take a man to the edge of space and back. A feasibility study for a supersonic transatlantic airliner was ready by the time of the Arrow's cancellation.

"Avro was both incredible in its achievements and central to the nation's aspirations to become an aeronautical powerhouse," says Randall Wakelam, a history professor at the Royal Military College of Canada. "The government intended to take Canada from being a small-time assembler of aircraft designed in the UK or US to become an international-level manufacturer the equal of other nations."

Ottawa’s decisions didn’t always help the manufacturer. In 1950 the Cold War turned hot when North Korea invaded the South. CD Howe demanded that Avro cancel the Jetliner project and prioritise the manufacture of the Canuck. In a foreshadowing of the fate of the Arrow, American interest in manufacturing the plane was ignored and workers cut up the Jetliner prototype.

Then in 1954, the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) published requirements for a new fighter. The Arrow won, but quickly grew into a complex project that pushed forward the edge of scientific knowledge, Avro’s ability to manage it and the government’s ability to afford it. The interceptor had to be able to fly and fire at 50,000ft and speeds over Mach 1.5. It had to be to operate in the harsh conditions of the Arctic and be able to fly the long distances that this required.

To achieve these goals, the Avro engineers created the first non-experimental fly-by-wire control system (a system that replaces the conventional manual flight controls of an aircraft with a computer-controlled system) in an aircraft and a navigational computer that used real-time telemetry. They used new materials in its airframe, and, at a sister company, designed and built the new powerful, lightweight, supersonic Iroquois engine. To make the most of its capabilities, the interceptor spawned a new weapons programme called Astra (nicknamed "Astronomically Expensive"), and a new missile.

The Arrow was so advanced that Canada didn't have all the facilities for testing it. Instead, the engineers had to use facilities in the USA such as the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) supersonic research centre at Langley Park, Virginia. The Canadians and their aircraft impressed their American colleagues – a calling card that had lasting consequences for the future of humanity. In 1958 NACA became Nasa.

“The Arrow was an extremely high-performance, hi-tech fighter,” says Coles. “Its designers had made very few compromises to keep its costs down, and it was very much the 'gold-plated' solution.”

 

[CopiousX]

I'm an ambitious individual and want to become a modern day Philip II of Macedon and carve out an empire from scratch like he did.

Even though the world is different now than it was back in his day, how can I accomplish that? What career path/steps do I need to do to get from where I'm at currently to what Phillip became at the height of his power??



Would y'all recommend I join the air force and work my way up?? what steps do I need to take??

@CopiusX

The record-breaking jet which still haunts a country

Like I said, prison babble is prison babble.


There are debt limitations for joining any branch of the military. Marines will take anyone, but the other three branches do security clearance screening and oversees-duty screening, both of which wouldn't touch someone with more than 10k of debt with a long pointy stick.

A large debt, separate from independent income, means you are a risk of selling govt secrets to outsiders, breh.





BTW, Canada proves my original point that

If they are starting in the Greece of today Philip must do extra work.


With debts and all, their first problem is resources. Greece is wreck today and makes nothing of substance for the world. So Philip must first build an economy from scratch.

Canada skipped the first step of building the economy and failed because of it. I’d compare it to Israel which now makes advanced jet fighters and stratagems. Despite being a much smaller economy, it has a gigantic economic base that allows it to project geopolitical power.





Dave, the word of the day is abstraction.

• Abstraction is the process of removing physical, spatial, or temporal details or attributes in the study of objects or systems to focus attention on details of greater importance;
• I actually answered your original question about developing your own life in my 1st PhilipII example but you missed it completely.
• Don’t think about it as countries. The detail of greater importance to you is the development process that theses countries took. Think objectively about yourself, as though you were a country. Through abstraction, you would realize that YOU are in the same position as Greece today. (debt and lack of production)
• So, build your personal economy.
• Expand through the purchase of wealth producing assets. (not education)
  
• Expand your social connections (this can include education)
• THEN EXPAND, and build your personal empire through the consumption of other people’s businesses, other people’s women, other people’s land , and other people’s influence.

Development process

• Thus, you can apply the same macro principles in my original post to your own life.
• I suggest modeling yourself against early Singapore or Soviet Union.
• Export any resource you have in abundance. In your case, I would guess labor(instead of fish). Export your labor like a madman. Singapore’s first PM ,Lee Kuan Yew, deprived his people of sleep and convenience. The Soviets famously traded their butter for guns and equipment. People died in both regimes, but wealth and power were ultimately achieved.
• To simplify my previous point, get two more jobs and stack 60,70, or even 80hrs per week. The abstracted “butter” for you would be sleep and free time. You’ll lose them until you can purchase assets.
• After that, purchase a wealth producing asset. Doesn’t matter which one. (Property, an oldTruckingRig, minor industrialEquipment, even a goddam foodTruck, etc)

Comeback to me after you’ve done the above. To become Philip you have to do multiple generations of work in your single lifetime.

• But it will be hard. It will make You want to quit.
• You will wonder why nobody else is putting as much effort into their life as you are.
• You will begin to wonder if your dream of becoming a modern Philip is worth it.
• We engage in prison babble solely because we don’t want to do this hard work.
• Good luck, breh

 

[Asante]

Neither was great. Alexander got punked out by a Nubian queen (Kandake) when he tried to push past Egypt. When he died his empire went with him. His father came about during a time when the Middle East had been at constant war for a millennium.

 

[YaThreadFloppedB!]

@419scam how could someone become a modern day Alexander??

I assume you don’t have a host of men and calvary at your call

It’s a different world today. At his core, Alexander the Great was extremely ambitious and relentless in the pursuit of his goals/dreams. Have the temerity to pursue your own goals unabashedly and you will become your own Alexander.

Interesting enough, Alex himself was obsessed with Achilles and imagined himself and his close friend Hephaestion to be Achilles and Patroclus reborn.

 

[Ozymandeas]

I can't see Philip being good enough to do what Alexander did. He just didn't have the skill. Nobody rates him when they discuss the great commanders of the ancient warfare.

Some fool here said all Alexander had to do was turn the ignition. Right. So Ayrton Senna deserves no credit at all for being in the top 3 best race car drivers of all time. All the credit should go to Honda for building the engine that powered his race cars. Because that's what this is you know. Philip is some nerd engineer sitting in an office somewhere who designed a decent Formula 1 racecar. Great. Those are a fukking dime a dozen. Nobody cares who the fukking engineer is it's one thing to build a car, it's another thing entirely to be able to drive it at 230 mph, always pick the perfect line through the corners, always know exactly where the braking points are and where you can get back full throttle, be perfect at every single gear change, be perfect at overtaking and at defending your position. Nobody in the whole world thinks the engineer who built the car deserves even a fraction of the credit and the plaudits as does the guy who races the car and wins the races too; and rightly so because they don't deserve it

I don’t know about that. You realize Alexander was a 20 year old kid when Phillip died right? That’s a college sophomore. He didn’t build anything. His dad’s phalanx was already perfected. His dad’s generals (Parmenion, Cleitus, Antigonus One Eye, Antipater) were hardbody and they helped Alexander win his battles. Think of it like Robb Stark in Game of Thrones with Robb being Alexander and the Northern lords like the Umbers, Manderlys, Mormonts, Glovers and the Karstarks being the older generals from Ned Stark’s (Phillip) era who held him down army wise. Also, Phillip invented the Sarissa which was a longer spear in comparison to most armies so it made their phalanx nearly unbeatable since they could stab nikkas from further away. Lastly, Alexander’s main strategy was to try to divide the opposing army. He’d try to rush his wing of the army to the right side of the field hoping the opposite side would follow leaving their army stretched thin. This is where those older generals like Antipater and Parmenion were so valuable because they had to hold the left side of the field by themselves while Alexander’s side tried to the circle/flank the opponent. Then Alexander would rush back over to the center of the field before the other side could and break through the middle of their army. Then it was over. He did this verbatim in like 3 battles. Phillip used the same strategy before so he picked that up from his father. Basically Alexander was great of course but you can’t shyt on his dad. His dad gave him an army, a powerful country with endless resources to start with, control of Greece, a top class education and loyal generals (well loyal as long as it benefited them ) who could help him win battles. If he didn’t inherit that at 20, he would’ve spent another 20 to 25 years building up to just get to that point like Phillip and we might’ve never heard the name Alexander because he might’ve died of the flu/fever that killed him before he got the chance to go to Asia. Basically Phillip put in the ground work that allowed Alexander to be able to go off and conquer the world. That’s what Cleitus was talking about when Alexander was talking about his father wasn’t shyt compared to him when his father gave him the ancient equivalent of a billion dollar trust fund

 

[Secure Da Bag]

how pausanias came off them steps

I'm more impressed about how even then they knew they weren't from Harlem. It's even in the name. Pausainas.

 

[Conan]

I don’t know about that. You realize Alexander was a 20 year old kid when Phillip died right? That’s a college sophomore. He didn’t build anything. His dad’s phalanx was already perfected. His dad’s generals (Parmenion, Cleitus, Antigonus One Eye, Antipater) were hardbody and they helped Alexander win his battles. Think of it like Robb Stark in Game of Thrones with Robb being Alexander and the Northern lords like the Umbers, Manderlys, Mormonts, Glovers and the Karstarks being the older generals from Ned Stark’s (Phillip) era who held him down army wise. Also, Phillip invented the Sarissa which was a longer spear in comparison to most armies so it made their phalanx nearly unbeatable since they could stab nikkas from further away. Lastly, Alexander’s main strategy was to try to divide the opposing army. He’d try to rush his wing of the army to the right side of the field hoping the opposite side would follow leaving their army stretched thin. This is where those older generals like Antipater and Parmenion were so valuable because they had to hold the left side of the field by themselves while Alexander’s side tried to the circle/flank the opponent. Then Alexander would rush back over to the center of the field before the other side could and break through the middle of their army. Then it was over. He did this verbatim in like 3 battles. Phillip used the same strategy before so he picked that up from his father. Basically Alexander was great of course but you can’t shyt on his dad. His dad gave him an army, a powerful country with endless resources to start with, control of Greece, a top class education and loyal generals (well loyal as long as it benefited them ) who could help him win battles. If he didn’t inherit that at 20, he would’ve spent another 20 to 25 years building up to just get to that point like Phillip and we might’ve never heard the name Alexander because he might’ve died of the flu/fever that killed him before he got the chance to go to Asia. Basically Phillip put in the ground work that allowed Alexander to be able to go off and conquer the world. That’s what Cleitus was talking about when Alexander was talking about his father wasn’t shyt compared to him when his father gave him the ancient equivalent of a billion dollar trust fund

This is fair.

Ultimately, Alexander needed Philip's army. Philip would have needed Alexander's acumen to replicate the latter's conquests.

 

[Mikhail Bakunin]

Phillip II, he set the template for Xander the Greats run

He appeared to be a better governor as he was able to hold onto the territories better.

But he wasn't as ambitious as Xander.

Ultimately I value what you can hold onto vs what you can conquer

Interesting point. My only point of reference for Alexander is the 48 Laws of Power. I may need to read a book on Phillip II and his son.

 

[EBK String]

yall nikkas in here creaming your pants over some ancient imperialist cacs



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