Who's really having the better season Kobe or Wade?

[Houston911]

Pau was really, really great in the 2010 playoffs. Like, super great. It's actually not laughable to think that he was as good as Bird or Magic for one single postseason. It's only 20 games or so.

But keep dodging the argument.

I hope you get raped by Tiberius

 

[Goatpoacher]

So, people are attacking statistical evidence because it doesn't correlate with their subjective beliefs?

There are some very pathetic people on this site.

 

[Newzz]

Larry Bird's 1986 Playoff PER: 23.9
Magic Johnson's 1988 Playoff PER: 22.9
Pau Gasol's 2010 Playoff PER: 24.0

Pau Gasol > Prime Larry Bird & Prime Magic Johnson

PER

*Goes into my "Stat Boy" mode where nobody can fukk with me when it comes to stats*

@Jram


According to Career PER, the top 10 players of all-time are:

1) Michael Jordan at 27.91
2) LeBron James at 27.56
3) Shaquille O'Neal at 26.43
4) David Robinson at 26.18
5) Wilt Chamberlain at 26.13
6) Dwyane Wade at 25.57
7) Chris Paul at 25.51
8) Bob Petit at 25.35
9) Tim Duncan at 24.74
10) Neil Johnston at 24.69
NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating | Basketball-Reference.com



According to Career Win Shares, the Top 10 players of All-time are:

1) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar at 273.41
2) Wilt Chamberlain at 247.26
3) Karl Malone at 234.63
4) Michael Jordan at 214.02
5) John Stockton at 207.70
6) Oscar Robertson at 189.21
7) Kevin Garnett at 187.05
8) Tim Duncan at 183.28
9) Shaquille O'Neal at 181.71
10) David Robinson at 178.67

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com







Get these wack as "Advanced Stats" out of here and anybody who builds their arguments around them


Anybody that came through on this site claiming that either one of those is their "personal top 10" would get clowned forever

 

[Newzz]

OH, now nobody got nothing to say?




I guess I shut this thread down

 

[Jax]

*Goes into my "Stat Boy" mode where nobody can fukk with me when it comes to stats*

@Jram


According to Career PER, the top 10 players of all-time are:

1) Michael Jordan at 27.91
2) LeBron James at 27.56
3) Shaquille O'Neal at 26.43
4) David Robinson at 26.18
5) Wilt Chamberlain at 26.13
6) Dwyane Wade at 25.57
7) Chris Paul at 25.51
8) Bob Petit at 25.35
9) Tim Duncan at 24.74
10) Neil Johnston at 24.69
NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating | Basketball-Reference.com



According to Career Win Shares, the Top 10 players of All-time are:

1) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar at 273.41
2) Wilt Chamberlain at 247.26
3) Karl Malone at 234.63
4) Michael Jordan at 214.02
5) John Stockton at 207.70
6) Oscar Robertson at 189.21
7) Kevin Garnett at 187.05
8) Tim Duncan at 183.28
9) Shaquille O'Neal at 181.71
10) David Robinson at 178.67

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com







Get these wack as "Advanced Stats" out of here and anybody who builds their arguments around them


Anybody that came through on this site claiming that either one of those is their "personal top 10" would get clowned forever

Who said any is absolute you ignorant ass nikka?
How about try and mix stats and factors to see what you get?

 

[Newzz]

Who said any is absolute you ignorant ass nikka?
How about try and mix stats and factors to see what you get?

Just looking at those two Top 10 lists alone,only 5 players in NBA history appear on both top 10's. If you average it out (or mix n match) The Top 5 NBA Players Of All-Time by Jram's trusty PER/Win Share stats are:

1) Michael Jordan
2) Wilt Chamberlain
3) Shaquille O'Neal
4) David Robinson
5) Tim Duncan



REALLY?



again

 

[Jax]

Just looking at those two Top 10 lists alone,only 5 players in NBA history appear on both top 10's. If you average it out (or mix n match) The Top 5 NBA Players Of All-Time by Jram's trusty PER/Win Share stats are:

1) Michael Jordan
2) Wilt Chamberlain
3) Shaquille O'Neal
4) David Robinson
5) Tim Duncan



REALLY?



again

Stats don't corrupt themselves by media "experts" , human feelings and memories, and homerism btw it is what it is

 

[Jram]

*Goes into my "Stat Boy" mode where nobody can fukk with me when it comes to stats*

@Jram


According to Career PER, the top 10 players of all-time are:

1) Michael Jordan at 27.91
2) LeBron James at 27.56
3) Shaquille O'Neal at 26.43
4) David Robinson at 26.18
5) Wilt Chamberlain at 26.13
6) Dwyane Wade at 25.57
7) Chris Paul at 25.51
8) Bob Petit at 25.35
9) Tim Duncan at 24.74
10) Neil Johnston at 24.69
NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating | Basketball-Reference.com



According to Career Win Shares, the Top 10 players of All-time are:

1) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar at 273.41
2) Wilt Chamberlain at 247.26
3) Karl Malone at 234.63
4) Michael Jordan at 214.02
5) John Stockton at 207.70
6) Oscar Robertson at 189.21
7) Kevin Garnett at 187.05
8) Tim Duncan at 183.28
9) Shaquille O'Neal at 181.71
10) David Robinson at 178.67

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com

Get these wack as "Advanced Stats" out of here and anybody who builds their arguments around them


Anybody that came through on this site claiming that either one of those is their "personal top 10" would get clowned forever

Man, for a second I got happy and was hoping you built a good argument, but your really not saying anything. The crutch of your argument is 'Nobody says these guys are top ten so therefore they can't be'.

I don't live off of perception.

First, let's address the top ten PER list. Neil Johnston and Bob Pettit usually don't come up in top ten lists, sure. Because they played in the 50's. They were dominant superstars in their era though. They don't come up, the same way people in 40 years will be biased toward stars of their last few era's and will sleep on the stars of today.

It was a totally different game at a different time.

As far as David Robinson, Chris Paul and Dwyane Wade, I know you like to go off of what the masses think, but that's arguably three of the best 10 players to ever play the sport. Wade and Paul are still active and in their prime, adding to their resume's, but their PER is a reflection that they produce at really high levels.

All your doing is basically arguing the facts with a theory that they aren't valid because you don't see opinions around you validating them. That's confirmation bias. If you want to neglect the numbers, build an argument for why you think they aren't valid, because although PER does have some holes, it's a decent measure of production, and when used with other measures, tells us a lot about a player.

*Your Win Shares point is going off of total win shares. That mostly tells us about longevity, not per game production. So, if John Stockton played a lot more game than Shaquille O'Neal, he's going to have more total win shares. So, I don't know if you knew that, but that makes that argument fall on it's face. Even then, no one statistic is conclusive. We have to use them in conjunction.

 

[mastermind]

So, people are attacking statistical evidence because it doesn't correlate with their subjective beliefs?

There are some very pathetic people on this site.

that PER and winshare shyt doesnt compute entirely with basketball. If you building your argument using those numbers, then you deserve to be laughed at.

Dirk has a higher PER than Larry Bird. If you think Dirk was a better player than Larry Bird, then go fukk yourself. And thats nothing against Dirk, but against those numbers.

A lot of people dont watch basketball but instead just run with those advanced stats.

 

[Goatpoacher]

A lot of people dont watch basketball but instead just run with those advanced stats.

Are you saying that you are specifically aware of several people who look at advanced statistics for basketball players but NEVER watch actual games? If this is true, then please identify these people.

 

[Newzz]

As far as David Robinson, Chris Paul and Dwyane Wade, I know you like to go off of what the masses think, but that's arguably three of the best 10 players to ever play the sport.

So you're letting "PER stats" tell you that David Robinson, Chris Paul, and Dwyane Wade are all in the Top 10 to ever play the game?


Better then Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kobe Bryant, Hakeem Olajuwon, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc?

 

[Jax]

So you're letting "PER stats" tell you that David Robinson, Chris Paul, and Dwyane Wade are all in the Top 10 to ever play the game?


Better then Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kobe Bryant, Hakeem Olajuwon, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc?

one of them is not like the others.

 

[Jram]

that PER and winshare shyt doesnt compute entirely with basketball. If you building your argument using those numbers, then you deserve to be laughed at.

Dirk has a higher PER than Larry Bird. If you think Dirk was a better player than Larry Bird, then go fukk yourself. And thats nothing against Dirk, but against those numbers.

A lot of people dont watch basketball but instead just run with those advanced stats.

But that's selective. Nobody only uses PER to make a final judgement. Nobody did that here. At all.

Your deferring to personally attacking people instead of proving why the evidence is incorrect. It's lazy.

 

[Jram]

So you're letting "PER stats" tell you that David Robinson, Chris Paul, and Dwyane Wade are all in the Top 10 to ever play the game?


Better then Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kobe Bryant, Hakeem Olajuwon, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc?

Nobody took one single statistic to make a definitive case. I'm pretty sure several metrics of production were taken to make a judgement.

Good job distracting from the point of the thread with a straw mans argument.

Although it's a fallacy, it's actually really effective in distracting from the topic and attacking the person who is making the case, therefore taking the heat off the fact that your argument was weak. So good job.

 

[Newzz]

Nobody took one single statistic to make a definitive case. I'm pretty sure several metrics of production were taken to make a judgement.

Good job distracting from the point of the thread with a straw mans argument.

Although it's a fallacy, it's actually really effective in distracting from the topic and attacking the person who is making the case, therefore taking the heat off the fact that your argument was weak. So good job.

Did you or did you not JUST post that David Robinson, Chris Paul, and Dwyane Wade are arguably 3 of the top 10 players ever?

As far as David Robinson, Chris Paul and Dwyane Wade, I know you like to go off of what the masses think, but that's arguably three of the best 10 players to ever play the sport.

There isnt ANY legitimate argument that can be made to throw those 3 in the top 10 to ever play the game.....NONE


And this is not a deflection, I'm responding to your post back to me.


You rely on stats way too much. Like I said before, your basketball eyes should be the #1 indicator of someone's talent.


No way your eyes can tell you that ANY of those 3 are top 10 all-time level players......let alone ALL 3 of em are.