Why do some ppl pronounce Arab "AYE-RAB"

[Formerly Black Trash]

I didn't agree, I said that the statement wasn't revolutionary.

Unknowingly or not, you've stumbled into the anti black position on African American English Vernacular. Linguists and black scholars have worked very hard trying to impress upon the public that our speech patterns are NOT "low class", but in fact, a mirror image of the same process that created all Atlantic Creole languages (including the various 'creoles' of West Africa and the Caribbean).

Since the 1960s, when linguists began describing this language in great detail, it has gone through many name changes based on the social and political times in which it exists. Today most linguists refer to the distinctive speech of African Americans as 'Black English' or African American English (AAE). This language is a result of Atlantic creolization, with its own unique accent, grammar, vocabulary features, and dialects. We can find it spoken by some 30 million native speakers throughout the United States.

Atlantic Creole - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For reference, a similar process is how the Romance languages branched off from local versions of Latin.

The way that ppl speak, is ABSOLUTELY based on class, across all races

Why would it be different for us?

This is also why it's corny when some bourgeois ppl use certain slang or try to be the white people whisperer for it

 

[HarlemHottie]

I think AAVE is a detriment so yea I'm good on that
Just because some scholars gave some shyt a name don't mean it's not a drawback for lots of ppl

And even that's a leap imo
AAVE is the way in which you use words, now how you pronounce them?

First its an accent, now it's AAVE?

Language can never be a detriment as long as its functional in its purpose (ie, can the people communicate?). Yes, there are languages that are considered 'prestige languages,' but we already speak English which is the current lingua franca, so we good.

AAVE, like all languages/ dialects, has a vocabulary, syntax, and yes, accents. Why does this surprise you? I bet you know what a NY nikka sound like.

The only leap here is you thinking you know enough to have this conversation. I hate this about the internet. I almost majored in linguistics and was offered a somewhat prestigious position to do fieldwork in NC off the strength of being a 'native speaker.'

Our history matters and is important. Have some pride about yourself. If you don't know, ask.

 

[Formerly Black Trash]

Language can never be a detriment as long as its functional in its purpose (ie, can the people communicate?). Yes, there are languages that are considered 'prestige languages,' but we already speak English which is the current lingua franca, so we good.

AAVE, like all languages/ dialects, has a vocabulary, syntax, and yes, accents. Why does this surprise you? I bet you know what a NY nikka sound like.

The only leap here is you thinking you know enough to have this conversation. I hate this about the internet. I almost majored in linguistics and was offered a somewhat prestigious position to do fieldwork in NC off the strength of being a 'native speaker.'

Our history matters and is important. Have some pride about yourself. If you don't know, ask.

You "almost" majored in linguistics but don't know class factors into the language we use?

 

[HarlemHottie]

The way that ppl speak, is ABSOLUTELY based on class, across all races

Why would it be different for us?

This is also why it's corny when some bourgeois ppl use certain slang or try to be the white people whisperer for it

That's why I didn't become a linguist.

Iirc, the class-based differences within any given language are referred to as "registers."

Spoiler

In sociolinguistics, a register is a variety of language used for a particular purpose or in a particular communicative situation. For example, when speaking officially or in a public setting, an English speaker may be more likely to follow prescriptive norms for formal usage than in a casual setting, for example, by pronouncing words ending in -ing with a velar nasal instead of an alveolar nasal (e.g., walking rather than walkin'), choosing words that are considered more "formal" (such as father vs. dad or child vs. kid), and refraining from using words considered nonstandard, such as ain't and y'all.
...

Register as formality scale​

One of the most analyzed areas where the use of language is determined by the situation is the formality scale. The term register is often, in language teaching especially, shorthand for formal/informal style, although this is an aging definition. Linguistics textbooks may use the term tenor instead,[7] but increasingly prefer the term style—"we characterise styles as varieties of language viewed from the point of view of formality"[8]—while defining registers more narrowly as specialist language use related to a particular activity, such as academic jargon. There is very little agreement as to how the spectrum of formality should be divided.

In one prominent model, Martin Joos describes five styles in spoken English:[3]

• Frozen: Also referred to as static register. Printed unchanging language, such as biblical quotations, often contains archaisms. Examples are the Pledge of Allegiance of the United States of America and other "static" vocalizations. The wording is exactly the same every time it is spoken.
• Formal: One-way participation; no interruption; technical vocabulary or exact definitions are important; includes presentations or introductions between strangers.
• Consultative: Two-way participation; background information is provided – prior knowledge is not assumed. "Back-channel behavior" such as "uh huh", "I see", etc. is common. Interruptions are allowed. For example teacher/student, doctor/patient, or expert/apprentice.
• Casual: In-group friends and acquaintances; no background information provided; ellipsis and slang common; interruptions common. This is common among friends in a social setting.
• Intimate: Non-public; intonation more important than wording or grammar; private vocabulary. Also includes non-verbal messages. This is most common among family members and close friends.

Register (sociolinguistics) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I can recognize all of these within AAVE, ie, how you speak to your granny is different than how you speak to a respected community figure, which is different than how you speak to your little friends, all still within the bounds of AAVE.

 

[HarlemHottie]

You "almost" majored in linguistics but don't know class factors into the language we use?

I did two years, but there's a vast difference between linguistics and socio-linguistics. I used to go to NSBE conferences and stuff, its considered a hard science and the precursor to coding and all that.

 

[Lord_nikon]

Hair- run

 

[TEH]

Ay-Rabs

Eye-Talians

 

[Still Benefited]

That's literally how language works!

I'm talking to idiots.


edit: That was mean, but I'ma leave it, for the shame. But still, yall are ALARMINGLY uninformed on your own mother tongue.

Thats how language CAN work,but thats not how it always works. The difference is one is natural based on regionality and upbringing. The other is a deliberate word CHOICE. Where you know how to pronounce Arab correctly,but choose not too. If you were in a proper setting,giving a presentation on diversity at work,would you pronounce it AYE-rab? If the answer is no,then its not an accent for you. It would moreso classify as a slang word.


I can deliberately choose to start using a new slang word tommorow. Doesnt mean that its suddenly part of an accent I picked up. I think yalls confusion comes from the fact its an actual word. But slang can come from actual words.


Accents,ebonics and slang are 3 different things,although they all intertwine to make up a distinctive language

 

[Thurgood Thurston III]

Why do some Ayrabs say nikka?

 

[HarlemHottie]

Thats how language CAN work,but thats not how it always works. The difference is one is natural based on regionality and upbringing. The other is a deliberate word CHOICE. Where you know how to pronounce Arab correctly,but choose not too. If you were in a proper setting,giving a presentation on diversity at work,would you pronounce it AYE-rab? If the answer is no,then its not an accent for you. It would moreso classify as a slang word.


I can deliberately choose to start using a new slang word tommorow. Doesnt mean that its suddenly part of an accent I picked up. I think yalls confusion comes from the fact its an actual word. But slang can come from actual words.


Accents,ebonics and slang are 3 different things,although they all intertwine to make up a distinctive language

Actually, no, but good, thoughtful points. If you look at the reddit link I posted, that's just a semi casual conversation between linguists/ enthusiasts, but it's well known that we do this in AAVE for several different words, many of which have been mentioned itt (ie, PO-lice). Its currently being attributed to a Scots Irish substrate in our dialect but that may change with new data.

[You might be surprised to learn that in a lot of cases, we're actually speaking the more 'proper' version of English. British English has changed over the centuries since the US was settled, but there were still pockets of Americans using 17th c pronunciation and slang well into the 20th c in places like Appalachia and random other remote area on the east coast.]

What you note as the ability to choose one's pronunciation is more related to the fact that all AAVE speakers are also, at minimum, fair to middling speakers of standard English. They're choosing which "register" is most appropriate for the setting, similar to tutoyer/ vouvoyer in french, completely normal language usage.

Speaking French Tips: To Vouvoyer or Tutoyer? - FrenchEntrée

When you're talking French in France, many anglophones are confused about which version of 'you' to use – the polite 'vous' or the more familiar 'tu' – it's a socio-political minefield! On paper…

www.frenchentree.com

 

[HarlemHottie]

Why do some Ayrabs say nikka?

Great question. We got any Ay-rabs?

 

[Givethanks]

My grandma just says Syrian or Lebanese

 

[TheJet]

And he gon crank it up fa sho...

 

[BangBike]

 

[Still Benefited]

Actually, no, but good, thoughtful points. If you look at the reddit link I posted, that's just a semi casual conversation between linguists/ enthusiasts, but it's well known that we do this in AAVE for several different words, many of which have been mentioned itt (ie, PO-lice). Its currently being attributed to a Scots Irish substrate in our dialect but that may change with new data.

[You might be surprised to learn that in a lot of cases, we're actually speaking the more 'proper' version of English. British English has changed over the centuries since the US was settled, but there were still pockets of Americans using 17th c pronunciation and slang well into the 20th c in places like Appalachia and random other remote area on the east coast.]

What you note as the ability to choose one's pronunciation is more related to the fact that all AAVE speakers are also, at minimum, fair to middling speakers of standard English. They're choosing which "register" is most appropriate for the setting, similar to tutoyer/ vouvoyer in french, completely normal language usage.

Speaking French Tips: To Vouvoyer or Tutoyer? - FrenchEntrée

When you're talking French in France, many anglophones are confused about which version of 'you' to use – the polite 'vous' or the more familiar 'tu' – it's a socio-political minefield! On paper…

www.frenchentree.com

Ill check it out later. But your missing the part where I say it CAN be a natural part of ones dialect. But it can also be a deliberate word choice. Some people naturally pronounce PO-lice that way. While others pronounce it that way because they prefer to use the slang version of it. And may even put extra emphasis on the "PO!" ,when calling someone a "PO-lice ass nikka". In linguistics,we consider this to fall underneath the category of slang



Its definitely not just a natural accent for everyone like some people were saying. That was a sweeping generalization I simply corrected.