Why is pop/catchy music frowned upon in hip-hop/R&B?

10bandz

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I'm not sure what type of answer you are looking for...

I like both types of music.

The thread is about why songs like " Drunk in Love " are hated on here while songs like "Momma" is praised to the high heavens


Not its not, its about OP being confused as to why he's the only one who thinks BBTM is better than the trilogy and that Views is a rap album, and why people didn't like J Cole workout

OP also stans Logic, so its clear he just likes shytty music and is confused as to why a rap forum doesn't like the lamest songs that an artist puts out:yeshrug:

You're also a c00n who's been crying like a hoe about TPAB for over a year, so I guess this thread is right up your alley:mjlol:
 

Apex

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I'm not sure what type of answer you are looking for...

I like both types of music.

The thread is about why songs like " Drunk in Love " are hated on here while songs like "Momma" is praised to the high heavens
Yeah, I didn't intend for this to be a socially conscious vs. Party music thread. Instead, what I'm wondering is why people think artists like J.Cole sell out for releasing "Work Out" when it's such a dope tune.
 

SirBiatch

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Hip hop is a culture, rap is the music of said culture. Not all the music reflects the progressive forward thinking nature of the root of culture. That's how every single defiant subculture of music is. What makes hip hop different? You're being idealistic based upon the box you've put hip hop into and not realistic.

I don't understand what you're getting at. Please be clearer.

The thread is about 'hip hop'.

Hip hop at its core is outsider music. That's why it was created. For someone to sit here and ask me "why don't we fukk with pop" is kinda weird. Did y'all not get the memo? Hip hop was never designed to be pop. It takes from soul/disco and everything else (including pop), to do its own raw/defiant/strange thing. If you're a defiant person who's into strange shyt, pop isn't gonna be your thing. This isn't rocket science.
 

Apex

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Not its not, its about OP being confused as to why he's the only one who thinks BBTM is better than the trilogy and that Views is a rap album, and why people didn't like J Cole workout

OP also stans Logic, so its clear he just likes shytty music and is confused as to why a rap forum doesn't like the lamest songs that an artist puts out:yeshrug:

You're also a c00n who's been crying like a hoe about TPAB for over a year, so I guess this thread is right up your alley:mjlol:
My favourite artists are Cole, Logic, Drake, Kendrick, Sean, and Kanye. I wouldn't consider any of them bad. However, that's not what this thread is about.
 

10bandz

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My favourite artists are Cole, Logic, Drake, Kendrick, Sean, and Kanye. I wouldn't consider any of them bad. However, that's not what this thread is about.


I feel you. its all good, @SirBiatch aka Tochito is about to give you a hip hop history lesson in this thread so sit back and learn breh
23dcc890e5fa817aaa98f67189b92f5b.png
 

NotaPAWG

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Even Rocky has songs that are more pop sounding orientated.

Not all of music within a said defiant subculture reflects the roots and ideals of said subculture. And sometimes being defiant can be be defiant against said subcultures unspoken rules, as well.

This band was a pretty popular hardcore band in the early 00s and they have a song with a Mike Jones hit influence but they were very much so still a hardcore/punk band regardless


This literally is existent in almost every genre of music.. there's tons of Post punk bands with pop influence. Tons of bands that are apart of a defiant sub culture that have pop song structure. This is something hip hop is safe from just like hip hop enthusiasts like to pretend that hip hop is somehow immune to region influence IE: NY artists sounding southern. There have been artists since the 50s from The US trying to copy what artists in Europe were doing and vice versa. There was a "Boston sound" of punk that became the norm that bands from Ohio and all over were copying. And no one gave a shyt

Did you just start listening to music 3 years ago? Jesus. Rappers Delight is an iconic hip hop song and that shyt is pop influenced as fukk.
 

boskey

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I'm not sure what type of answer you are looking for...

I like both types of music.

The thread is about why songs like " Drunk in Love " are hated on here while songs like "Momma" is praised to the high heavens
Naw OP, made a blanket statement that "the point" of music is to be catchy and popular. And I'm asking, if you agree with that, then why do you even fukk with the stuff that isn't catchy and fun
 

SirBiatch

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Pop = popular

Even Rocky has songs that are more pop sounding orientated.

Not all of music within a said defiant subculture reflects the roots and ideals of said subculture.

This band was a pretty popular hardcore band in the early 00s and they have a song with a Mike Jones hit influence but they were very much so still a hardcore/punk band regardless
And


This literally is existent in every genre of music.. there's tons of Post punk bands with pop influence. Tons of bands that are apart of a defiant sub culture that have pop song structure.

Did you just start listening to music 3 years ago?
Jesus. Rappers Delight is an iconic hip hop song and that shyt is pop influenced as fukk.


yet here you are like all my other fanboys, constantly dikkriding my opinions and asking for my attention.

It's well known that hip hop heads in that era weren't even fukking with Rappers Delight and they thought it was a terrible, corrupted presentation of hip hop. So your example has holes.

The rest of your shyt is one long juelz :russell:
 

NotaPAWG

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I don't understand what you're getting at. Please be clearer.

The thread is about 'hip hop'.

Hip hop at its core is outsider music. That's why it was created. For someone to sit here and ask me "why don't we fukk with pop" is kinda weird. Did y'all not get the memo? Hip hop was never designed to be pop. It takes from soul/disco and everything else (including pop), to do its own raw/defiant/strange thing. If you're a defiant person who's into strange shyt, pop isn't gonna be your thing. This isn't rocket science.

Yeah let's just ignore that rappers delight wasn't a obvious pop influence hip hop song :camby: you're being a revisionist
 

NotaPAWG

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yet here you are like all my other fanboys, constantly dikkriding my opinions and asking for my attention.

It's well known that hip hop heads in that era weren't even fukking with Rappers Delight. So your example has holes.

The rest of your shyt is one long juelz :russell:

No ones riding your dikk you narcissistic fukk :childplease:
 
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IllmaticDelta

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Why do you think they have differant charts for music?

It's only for marketing purposes

Hip hop crosses over to the Pop charts.

The best representation of "pop" is the top 40 and billboard top 100. Have you ever looked atthose charts? The music on them comes from the main core genres

Rap music doesnt debut on pop charts (unless its a marketing plan)

Rap does debut on top 40/billboard 100


Why Let Pop Steal Listeners, When Country Can Be Pop Too?

Top 40 pop radio has always been about taking the biggest songs from the respective genres and featuring them in one place. That’s pop radio’s job; that’s its niche in the marketplace. Now country is showing the early signs of coveting that position for itself.


Why Let Pop Steal Listeners, When Country Can Be Pop Too?


Fixing the Charts

S.F.J.: Who are Billboard’s charts for?

C.M.: Billboards stock answer is that the charts are for the industry. But I have long argued that the Hot 100 is not actually useful, day to day, for a record executive trying to do his job. It is an amalgam of a bunch of streams of data to produce one authoritative barometer of the biggest hits in the U.S.A. That’s enormously useful to the public—or, at least as long as that chart remains authoritative, it’s a handy benchmark. But if you’re, say, a radio programmer trying to figure out what to program, the Hot 100 will only get you so far before you have to kind of figure out, “O.K., but what works for my market? Or what works for the eighteen-to-thirty-five-year-old females that I’m targeting?” But, for the public, the Hot 100 is an excellent Dow Jones Industrial Average of pop music for America.

I would say that, to some extent, the R. & B./Hip-Hop chart is the same thing. It’s more useful as a gut check or a benchmark for the industry on the biggest, most credible black, or urban—pick your euphemism—records in the United States.

So, how do you come up with a pop-chart metric, like R. & B. and hip-hop, that’s neither arbitrary nor overly narrow?

One of the big reasons the Hot 100 has it easy is because it’s all genres; we call it the pop chart, but anything can appear on the Hot 100. If a catchy Gregorian chant came out tomorrow—in fact, about twenty years ago, a catchy Gregorian chant did appear on the Hot 100—it would chart there. Whereas the genre charts that I speak about in this article all have this definitional problem.

Why not get rid of all the genre charts, publish a Hot 500, and add genre tag to each song? The chart would lean more heavily on better data, and let the reader sort out the relevant groupings. It’s not as if charts are a challenging read, especially in an age of constant data visualization.

I mean, sure, that would do an end-run around the problem of not being able to isolate genre-specific data in the digital age—one big chart for everybody. But I think it’d be a shame. I think it’s still useful to track the music a subculture is consuming, separate from the mass audience, and that it should still be possible—even in an era of big data—to pinpoint and pry apart that subculture.

I think the way Billboard solves this problem—and they had it right for about forty years, before they changed the chart methodology in 2012—is to make these genres about the audience, not about the definition of music. And as long as there’s broad agreement over what the center of a genre is, you don’t have to agree about all of the boundaries, because that’s impossible and ever-shifting. But as long we can more or less agree about what the center of country is, what the center of R. & B. and hip-hop is, then you sort of say, “O.K., now let’s identify people who are fans of that center of the music and track what they like.” Then the boundaries to some extent take care of themselves. Because if people who congregate in black record stores or listen to Hot 97 suddenly decide that they like Lorde, it’s okay for Lorde to appear on the R. & B./Hip-Hop chart, because that group of people is actually consuming that song.

On the other hand, we’ve actually got a system now whereby, in order for something to appear on the charts, there’s a gatekeeper in the sky, which in this case is Billboard, saying that the Lorde record is R. & B., but this Bruno Mars song is not. In this system, you get into the quicksand of who qualifies, what are the edges, what are the boundaries? And that’s a mess.

If you’re going to come up with a credible chart, I feel like you don’t want to be in the business of defining what the boundaries of that genre are. Like, just to pick something off the top of my head, twenty-four years ago, the British duo DNA remixed Suzanne Vega’s “Tom’s Diner,” and it actually charted in the Top 10 of the R. & B. chart. It didn’t just make the top five of the Hot 100; it actually made the Top 10 on the R. & B. chart. Why? Did some gatekeeper in the sky say, “Suzanne Vega is now black enough for us to put her on this chart?” No, of course not. What actually happened was that black radio stations and black-owned or R. & B.-centric record stores were playing and selling that record in quantity; ergo it appeared on the R. & B. chart.

I wrote a piece for Slate back in December that seems relevant here. A couple of weeks before the end of the year, I noticed there had not been a single No. 1 record on the Hot 100 by a black person; 2013 was the first time that had happened. In the article, I alluded to the idea that we’re in a so-called “post-racial,” Obama-era America. There’s this sense that we, as Americans and as music fans, want to move beyond this and pretend that these genres don’t exist and good music is good music.

That’s bullshyt. Even if the definitions of these genres are harder to define than they were fifteen or twenty years ago, they’re still subcultures from which interesting music emerges and bubbles up, and also still subcultures where stuff from the top pushes down. I was careful in the piece not to merely talk about R. & B. music like it’s this farm team for big pop records that white people can consume. I’ve always been equally charmed by the R. & B. record that starts on the R. & B. chart and migrates to the Hot 100 and, say, a Hall and Oates record that starts pop but migrates back to the R. & B. chart. The way the R. & B. audience selectively decides, “We’re not interested in these five Hall and Oates tracks, but ‘I Can’t Go for That’? We’re very interested in that track.

Fixing the Charts - The New Yorker
 
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