fishfry600
All Star
There's actually an African version of the Spartans called Imbangala who had the exact same custom of the Spartans. The Zulu would wash the Spartans if they face off on an open plain.
Zulus vs Spartans who wins
- Thread starter Wisdomkeyz
- Start date
YaThreadFloppedB!
The Patron Saint of Threads
Lame cavalry > no cavalry
Plus spartan army had skirmishes as well. Once zulus run outta javelins what they doing next
fishfry600
All Star
The Zulus would most likely use the same tactic Hannibal use to crush Rome. Just like early Roman tactics the Spartans are use to a front facing shield formation battle. If the Zulu surrounds them from all sides it's a wrap.
The zulus can’t use the same tactics as Hannibal
Because they didnt have war elephants and Calvary
. I swear y’all nikkas hard headed.
GreenGhxst
Veteran
nikkas don't want to be called c00ns
Exactly, but this shyt ain’t close when you factor everything else other than hand to hand combat . Nikkas gtta stop with this delusional shyt .You got dudes in here basically saying Zulu gnna outflank horses on foot. Just so they don’t be called a c00n.
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Hoodoo Child
The Urban Legend
@Wisdomkeyz You gotta turn this into a series, cuh. These warfare threads could really turn into something 
I said this in another thread. Not even on some racist shyt against them cuz I personally love the vikings, the knights, and ancient romans/greeks but hand to hand the dont want that smoke with any melanated peoples. They were taking Ls to Native Americans, Africans and East Asians WITH guns.
1 of 3. Bruh this is the topic of discussion...
Example:
- If it was say Maasai warriors vs Spartans ...then I'd be like, "fukk if I know" not enough info on them short of gear used
- If it was say Hannibal Barca's Carthaginian army vs Spartans ...then I'd throw hella ideas on the table
Matter a fact this is a good time to quote banks
I.E. you are simply attempting to use something that is verifiable...
- "Shaka reforming fighting with a short spear in and shield is great for that civilization in Africa"
- "how he transformed farmers into warriors but He mainly dominated other African tribes"
- etc etc
- "I’m just speaking on championing an African Military to fight the Cacs. Dudes letting that cloud their judgement."
- "really insignificant in the grand scheme of things in the world and a few thousand years too late"
2 of 3. Historians have already made these comparisons, You are the one complaining...
CHAPTER VIII Spartan millitary and naval organization
The Mystery of spartan military organization
pg 233
FOOTNOTE I: "The nearest approach to the military organization of Sparta is to be found in that of the Zulus under their warrior kings,"
- vide W.S. Ferguson, 'The Zulus and the Spartans', Harvard African Studies, II (1918), p.197ff.
The Zulus and the Spartans : a comparison of their military systems
AUTHOR:
Ferguson, William Scott 1875-1954
Smithsonian Libraries African Art Index Project DSI
SUBJECT:Smithsonian Libraries African Art Index Project DSI
Shaka King of the Zulu 1787?-1828
Dingaan King of the Zulus approximately 1793-1840
TYPE: ArticlesDingaan King of the Zulus approximately 1793-1840
PLACE: Sparta (Extinct city)
DATE: 1918
TOPIC:
Warfare
Zulu warriors
Rites and ceremonies
Weapons, Zulu
CALL NUMBER: DT1 .V298Zulu warriors
Rites and ceremonies
Weapons, Zulu
DATA SOURCE: Smithsonian Libraries
EDAN-URL: edanmdm:siris_sil_558863
OCLC Number: 1000875673
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3 of 3.
- Damn near all non-industrial societies essentially "transform farmers into warriors" I'm not even sure why you bring that up.
- Shaka did far more than simply "reforming fighting with a short spear and shield".
THE ZULU MILITARY ORGANIZATION AND THE CHALLENGE OF 1879
by Cmdt S.Bourquin, DWD
Training......
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when Shaka introduced the short stabbing assegai and changed the traditional tactics he found it necessary to introduce a measure of instruction and training, which, although not comparable to the organised 'drill' in the European sense, sufficed to acquaint the soldiers with new methods and ideas. The simple movements they performed; forming circles of companies or regiments, or forming a line of march, came naturally; but the new battle order, the skirmishing and flanking movements, were explained, discussed, and practised until they became extremely adept, and the movements were performed with the utmost order and regularity, and, in subsequent contact with white adversaries, even under heavy fire.
Shaka also gave attention to the training of the individual. A warrior had to be strong and agile; dancing, Zulu fashion, was thus part of the military syllabus. He had to be capable of enduring any amount of hardship. The cow-hide sandals, in normal use on account of the many thorns and stony terrain, were regarded by Shaka as an encumbrance which impeded the speed and sure-footedness of his soldiers. His armies had to learn to march barefoot and, to test whether the soles of their feet were sufficiently hardened, they had to dance at times on ground covered with thorns.
Another innovation was the development of individual leadership in the persons appointed to command regiments and their sub-units.
The commander of each regiment and section of a regiment was supposed to be its embodiment, and on him hung all the blame if it suffered a repulse. Shaka made no allowance whatever for superior numbers on the part of the enemy, and all his warriors knew well that, whatever might be the force opposed to them, they had either to conquer or to die.
Casualties
Among the iziNyanga (doctors) there was one class which specialized in the medicinal use of plants and the treatment of sickness and wounds. In wartime these were directed to accompany the army as army doctors and would deal with wounds and injuries as best as they could. These services were, as a rule, applied only to their own people because Shaka's ideology did not permit the taking of prisoners. A severely wounded enemy would thus be killed on the spot, and anyone whose wounds permitted him to get away would do so in an endeavour to save his own life.
The Shield
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With his introduction of a regimental organization Shaka used shields in such a way that they became part of a soldier's uniform, viz, shields of uniform colour and marking would be allotted to individual regiments. Junior regiments had all-black shields or shields in which black predominated; married men and mixed regiments wore predominandy red shields; seniority and battle-experience was indicated by an increasing whiteness, all-white shields reflecting the greatest honour. At this time shields were up to six feet high and three feet wide.
Shaka also turned the shield from a purely defensive into an offensive implement. He taught his soldiers, in close combat, to hook the left edge of their shield behind the outer edge of the enemy's shield and by wrenching that shield aside to expose the enemy's left flank to the attacking assegai.
The Regiments
Having brought his search for a more formidable weapon than the throwing assegai to a satisfactory conclusion, Shaka gave his attention to the subject of tactics. He evolved a formation which for its implementation required at least four separate groups, although each of these four tactical units could be composed of numerous subdivisions. The only organization of males which existed among the Nguni tribes of that time were age-sets or circumcision-guilds (iNtanga), each of which consisted of about fifty men of the same age, organized on a district basis. When Shaka assumed the chieftainship over his own tribe the oldest of these Zulu age-sets had been circumdsed, but not the younger ones, for the custom had been suspended by Dingiswayo, though the classification of groups according to age had continued. Shaka thought these groups too small to meet his military purposes, so he decided to regard them as sub-units or companies (i(li)Vioy) of a larger unit, viz, the regiment (i(li)Butho). His eldest groups, the last of the Zulus to be circumcised, he drafted into the amaWombe regiment; the next group he named uDubinhlangu and prohibited circumcision as a matter of state policy, and the younger men were called umGamule. The pattern was thus set and was expanded to absorb the ever-increasing flow of recruits. The original size of an iNtanga was increased to approach one hundred, rather than fifty, men and to form a company (i(li)viyo) under a captain who had from one to three junior officers, depending on the size or nature of the company. Among the functions of these junior officers was the daily distribution of meat to their men and the supervision of the manufacture, storage, and, when necessary, the handing out of shields.
There was no limit to the number of companies in a regiment, which had its own distinctive name and uniform, and consisted from one to two thousand men, although some even larger regiments are known to have existed. Each regiment had its own commander or colonel (inDuna) with a second-in-command and two wing officers.
It became an inescapable 'moral' obligation for every young man to serve in the king's army. Only the unfit and diviners were exempt. As a regiment grew older one or more younger regiments were affiliated to it so that the younger warriors could benefit from the experience of their elders and also keep up the name and prestige of the kraal. In this manner three, four, or five regiments could be formed into one corps, such as the Undi Corps in the reign of Cetshwayo, which consisted of 9 900 men in the age group 24, 28, and 43 to 45 years.
Garrisons.
With the advent under Shaka of what amounted to a standing army it became necessary to establish military kraals (i(li)Khanda) which became the headquarters or garrisons where the various regiments were accommodated. There was a constant coming and going because, whereas the establishment operated on a full-time basis, its individual members were given home leave for months at a time.
Captain Allen Gardiner wrote: 'The whole kingdom may be considered as a camp, and every male belongs to one or other of the following orders:- "Umpakati", veterans; "Izimpohlo" and "Insizwa", younger soldiers; "Amabutu" lads who have not served in war. The two former are distinguished by rings on their heads; the others do not shave their hair. Throughout the country there are "Ekanda", or barrack-towns, in which a number of each class are formed into a regiment, from six hundred to a thousand strong, and where they are obliged to assemble during the half year. . . . In the whole country there are said to be sixteen large "ekandas" and several of a smaller size, and it is supposed that they can bring fifty thousand men into the field.'(12)
Employment of Troops.
The men garrisoned at a military kraal had to be kept busy and there was much for them to do. Bryant says: 'While ease and freedom were abundant, stern discipline continuously reigned, but it was wholly a moral force, the young men being thrown entirely on their honour, without standing regulations and with little supervision.... They were there for the sole purpose of fulfilling the king's behests. They acted as the state army, the state police, the state labour gang. They fought the clan's battles, made raids when state funds were low. They slew convicted and even suspected malefactors and confiscated their property in the king's name; they built and repaired the king's kraal, cultivated his fields, and manufactured his war-shields, for all of which they received no rations, no wages, not one word of thanks.'(3)
Intelligence.
The genius of Shaka was fully alive to the concepts of military intelligence, secrecy, and security. He had set up a spy system which not only kept him advised about conditions within his country, but supplied him with all the necessary military intelligence before and during a campaign. Spies were sent in twos and threes to explore the lie of the land, to locate the enemy, establish his strength, his strongholds or refuges, and the hiding places of corn and cattle. These then operated in addition to, or ahead of, the scouts who preceded an army on the march.
Passwords and countersigns were given out to enable Zulu warriors to distinguish between friend and foe when marching at night or when encamped. Shaka had learnt from experience, when his men had infiltrated in enemy camp at night, what havoc an unidentified, hostile element could wreak once it had got behind the enemy's lines.
As part of his security arrangements Shaka more often than not concealed the object of a campaign and the route which was to be followed until the moment of setting out. Even then, unless he led the army himself, he would take only the commander-in-chief into his confidence and appraise him of the army's true destination. Even in his parting speech to the army, the king might suggest a direction different from that which was to be taken in order to prevent any treacherous communication with the enemy.
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Tactics and StrategyIt was inevitable that having developed Dingiswayo's rudimentary regimental system to perfection, having introduced a type of uniform and an iron discipline, having invented a new assegai pattern, and having re-armed his warriors and instructed them in the use thereof, that Shaka should also introduce a new method of warfare including a new battle formation and method of attack.
On leaving the royal kraal, after a stirring address by the king, the army marched in one great column, in order of companies. Upon reaching hostile territory it was split into two divisions of close formation, viz, the advance guard and the main body. The advance guard, in regiment strength, say, up to ten companies, moved ahead of the main body at a distance of ten to twelve miles, and purposely refrained from concealing itself The intention was to lead the enemy into believing that this was the main body.
The advance guard was preceded by skilled scouts who were also deployed on either flank and to the rear of the army. As soon as the advance guard found it had been seen by the enemy, and that an action was developing, fast runners were dispatched to warn the main body and to lead it up along the best and fastest route.
Shaka's leading principle for the attack was to encircle the enemy and force him into combat at close quarters. Immediately preceding an engagement the troops were rapidly drawn up in a semi-circular formation and briefed by the officer in supreme command in regard to the positions to be taken up by the various regiments. There was a final sprinkling of the army by the witchdoctors to ward off injuries.
The classical Shakan battle formation represented the head of a steer, and consisted of four formations. The chest (isifuba) composed of veteran regiments formed the centre and faced the enemy fairly squarely. A large reserve force was positioned a short distance behind them. The elderly warriors composing it were directed to turn their backs on the scene of battle so that they were unable to watch and become either dejected or unduly elated at the fortunes of battle. Two horn-like formations (u(lu)Pondo, izim-) on either flank were composed of the younger, eager, fleet-footed regiments. The commanding officer and his staff took up a position on high ground to watch the course of battle, and to issue any further directions, which were then transmitted by runners.
Ideally, the Zulu army would be committed to battle in the following stages:
- The Chest, i.e., the veterans, would move towards the enemy, halt, and feign a withdrawal in an attempt 'to draw' the enemy and cause him to break his ranks. Then, suddenly, the veterans would change from withdrawal to attack, the dislocated enemy force would be thrown into confusion, and, having thrown its assegais, would then be at the mercy of the Zulu iKlwa.
- In the meantime the two horn-formations would deploy in a flanking movement. Either, both would remain concealed and take the enemy by surprise by attacking his flanks and rear, or, one horn would move openly, causing a distraction and growing fear, while the other horn would move undetected under cover of bush and grass to spring a surprise attack.
These movements required training, discipline, and timing. A break-down in their timing some sixty years later, in 1879, when the Zulu right horn was in position before the camp at Khambula long before the left horn had arrived, ended in disaster for another Zulu king.
As an imaginative, intrepid, and resourceful general Shaka always came up with new ideas and tactics which were unheard of and which always took his adversaries by surprise. The 'scorched-earth' policy, earlier referred to, he employed when, in order to tire out a numerically far superior enemy, Shaka led his impi (army) in a deliberate withdrawal in such a way that the enemy was enticed to keep up the pursuit. In withdrawing, the Zulu warriors scorched the earth behind them, their own fields and kraals were burnt, and whatever food they could not carry away was destroyed. Not a single head of cattle was left behind. The pursuing army which depended on captured food-stuffs was reduced to starvation. At this point he changed his tactics into harassment and attack on the weakened and disheartened enemy, driving them back across vast expanses of scorched and resourceless country while his own troops remained well supplied from the rear.
Military History Society
Military History Journal
Vol 4 No 4 - Zulu War Centenary Issue - January 1979
South African Military History Society - Journal- THE ZULU MILITARY ORGANIZATION AND THE CHALLENGE OF 1879
Zulus literally would be grilling those spartans at the end of the day 
The Odum of Ala Igbo
Hail Biafra!
For those who are interested as have access to academic journals, there is now a journal on African Military History. It had 2 publications per year